[jambaj0e]

How's the Cayin as a standalone amp with speakers? I've been trying to find more information on this but can't seem to find much. Is it exceptional or just good?

I'm planning to use this amp for both speakers and headphone and I think if it's as good with speakers as it is with headphone I think it's an endgame product for me.

It sounds great and clear with my Tekton Lore Reference, although I don't necessarily have it in the most optimal listening position in my bedroom. I would say, though, I wish I can squeeze more juice out of it, since I'm constantly at 65-75% volume to have decent volume, not talking blasting, too, even though the speakers rate 96dB 8Ohms.











https://www.tektondesign.com/lore-reference.html

I also run a thin 100W powered Dayton Audio SUB-1000L subwoofer with 10" driver under my bed towards the foot of the table, just to add just enough sub-bass slam, although the Lore Reference does have a pretty darn good bass extension

https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...0-watt-low-profile-powered-subwoofer--300-639



I tend to listen to music 95% on my Audezes and because my room is not optimized for speakers, I didn't want to spend over a $ grand for them. When I move to a better space, that's when I'll upgrade the speakers. The Lore Reference still sound good, too!

 

[dadracer2]

How's the Cayin as a standalone amp with speakers? I've been trying to find more information on this but can't seem to find much. Is it exceptional or just good?

I'm planning to use this amp for both speakers and headphone and I think if it's as good with speakers as it is with headphone I think it's an endgame product for me.

It works very well but is dependent on speaker sensitivity, impedance and room size.

I bought the HA300 with the plan to use it as an integrated amp with speakers and headphones and am very happy with it in that role.

If your room is of average size then you need speakers which have an impedance curve that stays above 8 ohm as much as possible across the frequency range to make it am easier load. In terms of sensitivity you will need around 96db@1W/1M . Now there are companies which seem to have their own "scale" such as Klipsch where they overstate things. So you need a REAL 96 db or more (if you have a bigger room).

As you are in the USA you should have a good election to choose from as there are quite a few small bespoke speaker companies making high efficiency speakers ideal for 8 watt amps or even less. It will just be a case of finding what suits you in terms of the sound profile you prefer.

Good hunting.

 

[Coffee Music]

I see. Thanks to both. @jambaj0e I think the Tekton Double Impact is an amazing set of speakers and if funds permit that's what I'd like to pair with Cayin with. What's with all these hum talks I'm hearing about though.

 

[Andykong]

By the way Andy, can I plug both the RCA and XLR cables from the Hugo TT2 to the Cayin HA-300? The TT2 doesn't have a selection switch for RCA and XLR as the HA-300, so I'm guessing it'll be a hot signal all the time from both cables. I would think it'll be ok for the HA-300, right?

 

[jambaj0e]

@Andykong for some reason I don't see your response

 

[Andykong]

By the way Andy, can I plug both the RCA and XLR cables from the Hugo TT2 to the Cayin HA-300? The TT2 doesn't have a selection switch for RCA and XLR as the HA-300, so I'm guessing it'll be a hot signal all the time from both cables. I would think it'll be ok for the HA-300, right?

I am not familiar with Hugo TT2, I guess it is OK to do that. I have used our iDAC-6MK2 and CS-100DAC with HA-300 in various shows, with both RCA and XLR connected, it worked fine so far, so unless there HugoTT2 has some protective mechanism to stop that practise, otherwise it should be OK.

@Andykong By the way, I notice that when I have both the RCA and XLR cables in the amp from my Hugo TT2, they play fine, but when when I have nothing playing, I have a hum/buzz at 100% volume on the HA-300 through the XLR side, but nothing from the RCA side.

I even turned off the TT2 DAC, and tested it again, still getting a buzz from the XLR side, but not the RCA side.

Why is that?

I don't think the XLR cable is causing the hum, so we can ignore that at this stage, unless you have tested the cable and observed similar problem in another system.

The RCA and XLR input are identical with the exception of input transformer in the XLR input circuit. What happened is, the 6SN7 and 300B are operated in single-ended, therefore the XLR signal will go through a pair of input transformers and convert the balanced signal to single-end before feeding to the tube amplification circuit. If everything remain the same but the RCA input is completely silent, only the XLR is hummed at full volume, that is likely caused by the input transformer.

If the hum only appear when there is no input signal (i.e., when the input transformer is not loaded), and you don't hear any hum whenever music is playing (i.e, when the transformer is loaded), then I would see any point to worry about that. The input transformers are working as intended.

So I have an update @Andykong : I took off the XLR cables completely, and when I switch to the XLR selector and turn up the volume, I can hear buzzing starting at 75% volume.

That is the same problem with your previous test, the only different is when you connect the HA-300 to TT2 with a pair of XLR cable, you have connected the ground of the two pieces of equipment. When you disconnect the XLR, you have changed the ground level of your system. Not any different from what you have raised previously.

 

[Andykong]

@Andykong for some reason I don't see your response

I was trying to combine all your three question into one post. I probably hit the post reply button accidentally when I copy and paste the Quotes.

 

[jambaj0e]

I don't think the XLR cable is causing the hum, so we can ignore that at this stage, unless you have tested the cable and observed similar problem in another system.

The RCA and XLR input are identical with the exception of input transformer in the XLR input circuit. What happened is, the 6SN7 and 300B are operated in single-ended, therefore the XLR signal will go through a pair of input transformers and convert the balanced signal to single-end before feeding to the tube amplification circuit. If everything remain the same but the RCA input is completely silent, only the XLR is hummed at full volume, that is likely caused by the input transformer.

If the hum only appear when there is no input signal (i.e., when the input transformer is not loaded), and you don't hear any hum whenever music is playing (i.e, when the transformer is loaded), then I would see any point to worry about that. The input transformers are working as intended.

That is the same problem with your previous test, the only different is when you connect the HA-300 to TT2 with a pair of XLR cable, you have connected the ground of the two pieces of equipment. When you disconnect the XLR, you have changed the ground level of your system. Not any different from what you have raised previously.

The hum happens from the XLR input selected at very high volume without any music, around 95-100%. When the DAC is off or not connected to the HA-300 via XLR, the hum starts much sooner at around 70%"


Also, I have gotten an e-mail from John from Cayin ( john@cayin.cn ), is he saying the same thing you're saying?

"Thanks for your quick response.

Please also help check when it is setting at normal listening volume. Also with and without music and see if there are any differences. Appreciated for your help.

Differences between the RCA and XLR is that we have used Balanced transformers for the XLR. As for the audio transformer it may cause extra hum when volume goes very high compared with RCA. It is normal under such case. That is also why we have suggested you to test under normal listening volume and normal operation mode.

Yes, hum at very high volume is normal. Please kindly note."

 

[Coffee Music]

I'm afraid this humming issue is causing concerns for me and others as potential buyers. It's something I can live with for an amp that is $1500 or less but for $4000 I don't think I can do it. Other reviews I've came across did mention humming as well. The Cayin is an absolutely beautiful piece it's unfortunate it's being struck by this humming issue. Perhaps Cayin could release a potential new product identical to this but without the speaker sections.

 

[ken6217]

I don’t think this problem is universal. I’ve on the same twice, and this problem is not universal. I’ve owned this amp twice, and I know two people that havethis amp, and one of them (project 86) did the review it on Head Fi and never had this issue. Maybe there’s an issue with yours, or something else that’s not compatible in your system.

 

[jambaj0e]

I don’t think this problem is universal. I’ve on the same twice, and this problem is not universal. I’ve owned this amp twice, and I know two people that havethis amp, and one of them (project 86) did the review it on Head Fi and never had this issue. Maybe there’s an issue with yours, or something else that’s not compatible in your system.

Have you tried going XLR connection to the Ha-300, and with no music playing, put the volume all the way up? With RCA is silent, but XLR, I do get this at the extreme volume, which I'll never listen to in real life, though.

Otherwise, it does sound fantastic in normal listening levels.

 

[ken6217]

Have you tried going XLR connection to the Ha-300, and with no music playing, put the volume all the way up? With RCA is silent, but XLR, I do get this at the extreme volume, which I'll never listen to in real life, though.

Otherwise, it does sound fantastic in normal listening levels.

I do use XLR but never had the volume up all of the way with no music playing, and so you got me there.

 

[jambaj0e]

I do use XLR but never had the volume up all of the way with no music playing, and so you got me there.

That's the only time I've ever heard it, at the 95-100% otherwise, it's great.

My audiophile friend who's been a big Fleetwood Mac fan for decades, when he heard my system + my other friend's M-Scaler with the $1700 Wave Reference BNC cables, Innuos Streamer, & LCD-4, he said that was the best Fleetwood Mac's Dreams that he ever heard, besting out his $25k Linn & and T+A system.

 

[Coffee Music]

What was your system that he listened to? Really comes to show you can't just fling money and get good sound. It's an adventure. Gotta understand what's good beyond the price. Synergy is a big deal.

200 years from now we will look back to 2020 and realize synergy is just another word for bad products working well with bad products

 

[dadracer2]

Over the years I have had hum issues with a number of the valve amps I have owned and most of the time it has been a grounding issue or a proximity issue with other transformers such as SUT for phono stages. If you are getting some hum on XLR at max volume I really think this is not an issue with the HA300 but any DHT amp would probably do the same. Do you have hum at normal or even slightly higher than normal listening levels? If not then I don't think you have a big worry......frankly.

The HA300 is capable of delivering quite remarkable music but it is a DHT amp so it is never going to behave or measure like a SS amp or digital amp. Your money, your choice.