[Iron Lung]

Hey, I've been wondering about this question for a while:  Can a proper DAC help an amp drive headphones it normally wouldn't be able to?  What I mean is, could you pair an amp to a good DAC (or even just a better source) to help it perform with equipment that it would normally struggle to drive alone?  I'd appreciate any and all opinions on this, especially if you have any experiences to share on specific amps and DACs and their 'cause and effects' on each other.
 
NOTE: I'm a new Head Fi'er, so if this post is in the wrong place or I'm not following forum etiquette without knowing it, my apologies and please let me know.

 

[PurpleAngel]

DAC chips do not amplify audio.
 
Or are you talking about an external DAC, with a built in headphone amplifier, daisy chained to a second headphone amplifier?

 

[Iron Lung]

I meant how much an external DAC between your source and amp can make a difference, for instance:
 
Recently, I started enjoying my Sony XB1000 considerably more by introducing a Fostex HP P1 (DAC/Amp) between my Fiio E7 and my iPhone.  From my understanding, the Fostex replaces Apple's DAC for a better conversion on the source to 'clean it up' for the Fiio (which I use for bass boosting).  Since I'm waiting for my Cypher Labs AlgoRythm Solo dB (DAC) to arrive, I was wondering how much of an improvement the CLAS will provide before an amp and how that relates to different amps (good DAC + bad amp vs bad DAC + good amp for different headphones if that makes sense?).
 
As a side note, the iPhone volume control dissapears when connected to the Fostex, which I use for volume as opposed to the Fiio (which is maxed).  To my ears it sounds better but which one should be the adjusted volume dial?

 

[MrTechAgent]

Interesting topic , nice of you to bring it up - don't bother my comment I am just waiting for others answers

 

[Iron Lung]

Kesa hai MrTechAgent, by all means, glad to see I'm not the only one.  Don't mind me but I can put up a display photo after 5 posts lol, so I'm seizing an opportunity and figured I'd welcome everyone and anyone else to chip in.

 

[LFC_SL]

You are asking two different questions but confusing them as a single question.

If a DAC has a higher voltage output then the amp input would have more to play with. But in reality you would probably be looking at a few extra degrees on the volume dial so unless you had a monster like the HE6 then it's not something to dwell upon.

Your second question is whether DACs have an effect on sq. Well, yes. What goes in goes out. To what degrees depends upon synergy and your ears to give a short answer.

In relation to your HP-P1, it has a built-in headphone output but it sounds like you are using it as a DAC only and feeding the lineout to the fiio. Check out the owners thread, have no experience with it.

 

[Iron Lung]

Thanks LFC_SL, that actually makes more sense if you break it down like that.
 
To see if I understood correctly, a good DAC will improve a bad amp (to what degree depends on the source and amp) but each amp peaks individually at some point, so you would need a better amp to keep up for upgrading results as improving the source (from a superior DAC or even another superior amp) further won't make a difference, since the amp outputting to the headphone is at capacity already.
 
In the situation with my Sony XB1000s, the soundstage sounded proper off with the Fiio (by itself) and the bass too low with the HP P1 (by itself not bad but... basshead disease) so I never found myself reaching for them, but through curiosity I actually learned something about both devices now, and my XB1000 feels like a comfortable rediscovery 

.
 
That actually answers my questions quite well if that's the case (cheers again LFC_SL), and following that logic for the HP-P1 and Fiio (connected by line out) the Fiio should be maxed and the HP-P1 should be the volume used for adjusting, but I'll check around anyway.
 
If anyone else has an opinion or comment, feel free to post, I'd love to learn more if there's anything to know about this.  If anyone's interested in any further findings when I get my CLAS (and a Triad L3) into the mix to compare different combos, let me know and I'll do what I can (any excuse to keep 'experimenting' lol).