[PsychoZX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot If that's the case, a liberal return policy is required. See ya Steve

Agreed.

 

[newmanoc]

Jumping in late, but what the heck. A reasonable way to think of priorities is 1) table, 2) tonearm, 3) cartridge. The table limits the performance of the everything else. The cartridge ulitmately has the potential for the greatest impact on music reproduction, but full realization of that impact is only possible when a table and arm are good enough to let it get all the music it can from the grove.

The P3 is nothing short of great at its price point, and for many they would never feel the need to upgrade. But of course there are many much better tables, even within the Rega line. How far you can go with any future cartridge upgrade will always be limited until you upgrade your table (and arm).

The RB 300 is the bargin arm of the last decade - if Naim or Linn made it they would price it at $1000 and still would have sold it in droves. But the RB 600 or RB 900 are much better still. A used P25 with the RB 600, or a P5 with an RB 700 would be a good way to go if you want to stay with Rega. With what you can sell your P3 for, you may be talking about a net outlay of $400 or so.

 

[tennisets]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot I'm probably going to get in trouble again with the golden ears contingent... but "soundstage" is a very nebulous term. It's often used as a glittering generality to describe the placebo effect. Your speakers and listening room have a LOT more to do with soundstage than your turntable does. See ya Steve

Speakers and listening room do have a lot more to do with soundstage than the turntable (for once I actually agree with you!). However, I don't think it's a very nebulous term. It is a very accurate description of the size of the recording space that the speakers and associated equipment project. As long as your speakers are out from the wall and into the room, and have space to breathe, and you treat the first reflection points (or even if you don't), any differences in soundstage reproduction in the gear is readily apparent.

Of course, depending on your room, the best route to go might be to upgrade it and stop thinking about your equipment for a while. You will be shocked at the differences room treatments and speaker positioning can make, and contrary to common belief, it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg! There are all sorts of cost effective room treatments out there. I think bigshot will agree with me on this one, that any gains upgrading your cartridge might yield will be but a drop in the bucket compared to the gains you can realize by upgrading your room.

The room really is the most important component. Great speakers will sound poor in a bad room, but poor speakers can sound at least passable in a great room. And your speakers are by no means poor (I like Spendors a lot, actually). Good speakers + good room = candy for your ears! Also, any upgrades you do do to your equipment down the line will go a lot further in a well treated room than in an untreated one. The difference really is remarkable.

So basically, stop thinking about turntables and cartridges and amplifiers and speakers, and start thinking about your room!

 

[bigshot]

The most important aspect that affects soundstage is the position of the speakers. Many people have their speakers too far apart, so the two don't mesh well in the middle. Many people also have their speakers too low to the floor, so a lot of the sound gets sucked up into carpeting and furniture.

The second most important thing is equalization. No speaker, no matter how much it costs, is flat. Very slight boosts from flat in just the wrong frequencies can mask other frequencies that provide the aural clues for front to back distance from the microphone. Room problems are important, but as long as the throw of the speakers is unobstructed, careful equalization can fix most of them.

I was talking with a friend of mine who is a sound engineer, and I asked him why headphones have such a wide range of colors of sound, while speakers tend to be more consistent. He told me that when you remove the room from the picture, you can push certain frequencies higher without any honkiness or wierd bouncing. This allows headphone manufacturers to create colored presentations that would never work in a real room. This is probably why people who use headphones a lot get to the point where speakers don't sound as good to them any more.

See ya
Steve

 

[bln]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot Many people have their speakers too far apart, so the two don't mesh well in the middle.

How far apart do you like to place your speakers?

 

[bigshot]

I've found six to eight feet is best. If you have a surround system with a center channel, you can get away with more.

See ya
Steve

 

[krisbee]

I'm jumping in real late, but I didn't really know what kind of phono pre-amp you are using. Have you invested a bit in that? That is always where people on vinyl asylum are spending tons of cash.

 

[bigshot]

I use a nice old Phase Linear preamp to act as my phono preamp. It works great, and it allows me to balance the level to better match the volume put out by my other components. I had a problem with the turntable being a little quieter than the CD player... when I would switch back and forth, the CD would tend to blast me.

See ya
Steve

 

[riffer]

There are a whole bunch of very good cartridges around $500 that you are skipping over - Dynavector 20XH/L for one.

I am running one in my Scout - I don't plan upgrading for a while, but you never know!

Just some thoughts, I don't know the Audiolab, but isn't that a pre-amp? You may want to consider getting a dedicated phono stage. Many good cheap ones on AudiogoN like Monolithic Sound. Maybe $500 for a cartridge + $300 for a phono stage (used) would be an upgrade worth considering.

 

[jumping jupiters]

I've been out of the loop for a while...needless to say I was shocked to see this thread re-appear...someone was digging in the trenches. Glad you did!

Several things...first, I used the Cardas formula (you can find it on the company's web site) to dial in my speaker location. The speakers are about 6 feet apart and roughly 3 feet from either wall and the back wall. Last weekend I went to home depot and got two cinder blocks to raise the speakers off the ground (one drawback to the S5e's is how low they sit...now the tweeter is at hear level which is much better!!!). As far as room treatments I have not invested yet due to pending move (next summer really, but knowing it is coming has halted my desire to dress my current room). There are in fact several obsticals including a bookshelf on one side and a TV in the center that I am sure do not help with soundwaves.

I have had a change of heart recently as well...I am going to upgrade my current Goldring 1006 to the 1042 model...that choice was made by listening to each of you here.

The Audiolab is an integrated...I am only using it for its phono stage for the time being. My system is in great flux at that moment...looking for a new integrated (Musical Fidelity, VAC, Krell and any others that have an HT bypass). At that point I will see if I end up with a unit that has a phono stage. If not, I will be investigating a phono stage at that point. For the time being the Audiolab will have to do.

Lastly, I spoke to my friend and Spendor dealer...I am trading in the S5e's for the S8e's. I swear that will be it...at least that is what I told the girlfriend who wants me to focus funds in a different direction!

So the order of events is as follows: S8e's, 1042 needle, integrated, room treatments! Whew...that's enough!

 

[mouth]

The Goldring that came with my MMF-5 crapped out. Does anyone have any reccomendations for a (non-Goldring) replacement cartridge?

 

[bhd812]

I have a rega p3 same as you, I have a grace tonearm (might want to look into that) and a old school superexx cartridge also a RSA xr-2 phono stage.

The reason I spent so much on the phono stage is because I knew I would almost never upgrade that part. the rega p3 and the superexx with the grace was part of a used setup I bought, I bought that so I can learn more and get into the vinyl life more seriously until I decide if its worth more money.

I am looking into upgrading my cart now (probably a grado sonta or sumiko blue point speacil), I will do this in the next few months.

I am serious enough into vinyl to upgrade my cart now, and maybe later upgrade my Table to a scout or something.

either way I tried a few different phono stages and the best by far even at my vinyl setups price was the xr-2! huge difference I heard between the phonostages I have tried, even with the old school cartridge.

maybe upgrade your tonearm
phonostage
cartridge
then the table


I would love to buy a scout but I kind of have a bond with my p3 now...shes my little victorla ..hehehe

 

[memepool]

Quote:

There are in fact several obsticals including a bookshelf on one side and a TV in the center that I am sure do not help with soundwaves. chadlesko

bookcases are actually very good sound absorbers if they are full of books and will deaden down the rooms acoustics preventing too much reflection which muddles up the sound. Also good are heavy sofa's and heavy curtains. TV's shouldn't cause too many problems so long as you keep them out of the speakers magnetic field.
The Audiolab 8000a is a pretty good amp with a decent enough phono stage. The Audiolab marque has just been relaunched after TAG Maclaren have gone into new ownership so you might want to check out their new gear as well. Adding a power amp might be a worthwhile upgrade instead of ditching the amp altogether. Also getting it serviced could be a good idea as it may be quite old by now? The Spendor's you have and the new ones you are looking at purchasing will both benefit from more power.

Quote:

The Goldring that came with my MMF-5 crapped out. mouth

how d'ya mean crapped out? maybe you just need to replace the stylus?

Quote:

I have a rega p3 same as you, I have a grace tonearm (might want to look into that) and a old school superexx cartridge also a RSA xr-2 phono stage. bhd812

Thats a pretty unusual Rega combo. The Grace (G707?) is a Japanese designed 70's arm that was popularly fitted to the Linn Sondek and Thorens TD160.

It predates the Rega RB250 tonearm which is probably Rega's most important contribution to the great pantheon of Hi-Fi so you might want to get hold of one of these before you blow loads on an expensive cart.
The Grace has a quite pronounced upper mid and treble colouration as far as I remember so you might find the RB250 gives you a much more balanced neutral sound with increased bass.
The RB250 can itself be improved a lot fitting a new counterweight like the Michell Tecno weight

or getting the whole Origin Live rewiring and counterweight upgrade.

 

[mouth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool how d'ya mean crapped out? maybe you just need to replace the stylus?

Well, first I was only able to get one channel of sound. Then I actually broke off the stylus while moving.

I want to replace the whole cartridge though. I'm hoping someone can make a reccomendation for what they have paired with the MMF-5. I do a lot of rock and jazz listening.

Thanks!

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mouth Well, first I was only able to get one channel of sound. Then I actually broke off the stylus while moving. I want to replace the whole cartridge though. I'm hoping someone can make a reccomendation for what they have paired with the MMF-5. I do a lot of rock and jazz listening. Thanks!

One channel of sound is usually down to the wiring at the back being disturbed or damaged so it could be the arm rather than the cart. If you snapped off the whole cantilever as well as the stylus, chances are you probably knackered the suspension as well so you may well need a new cart. The Goldring 1024, if thats what you had, is one of the best MM carts around. If it was a 1006 or something you can get a 1024 stylus without altering the cart assuming it's still ok. Other options would be the Shure M97 or Stanton 680EEE. There are also Ortofons and Grado's in this price range.

I think your best bet would be to take the whole table back to where you bought it and get them to test what the problem is as there might be nothing wrong with your cart apart from a broken stylus. You might find that you buy a new stylus and still have the same problem with the channels.