[sunseeker888]

You must be joking. The answer to the OP's question is Definitely.

And you needn't spend $17.5k to retain the magic of vinyl. So long as you aren't using the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel ADC and phono pickup, the results are extremely close to the original. This is of course assuming that you're ripping raw 16 bit 44.1kHz which is the redbook standard. Also, leave the EQ and DSP b.s. turned off.

The original mastering and production of the music is much more important the medium on which it is delivered to the listener, IMHO and from experience.

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Definitely not true for me - I listen to vinyl through headphones on a VERY regular basis, and it sounds great. And I absolutely do not have ANY mistracking, and very little surface noise. The fact that I wet-vacuum clean my records is the biggest reason for that, probably, although using a line-contact stylus low-output moving coil cartridge also helps, IMO.

Pop/rock and jazz will sound all right on vinyl, classical is more of a challenge because it has much greater dynamics. Vinyl can't do the dynamic range of a full orchestra or opera without compression and/or mistracking. For example going from a solo instrument to a full orchestra, or orchestra, chorus and soloists in an opera at triple forte. It has to be compressed to fit a disc and even at that you are probably still going to strip the high frequencies after a couple of plays leading to mistracking.

I listened with a simlar set-up for years with Stax, Koss and Jecklin electrostatic phones and always had to cut the treble to make lp's listenable and to get rid of the high frequency distortion in many loud passages. While early cd's were harsh and dry sounding I was still greatly relieved at the advent of digital and was almost ready to throw my turntable and moving coil set-up out the window.

 

[Skylab]

Well, I admit I don't listen to a lot of classical on Vinyl, but I have a MFSL 1812 Overture that has been played dozens of times, certainly has plenty of dynamics, and does not mistrack at all. And I'm sorry, but if you get HF distortion during loud passages, that is due to a cartridge not being aligned properly - that is not a problem inherent with the Vinyl medium.

Look, I have lots of great sounding CDs too, and I think CD can sound very good, but every single person I play Vinyl for thinks it sounds better than CD, at my house. There are surely many ways in which red-book CD can claim technical superiority over vinyl. But in general, people sure seem to agree that vinyl sounds better on my stereo.

 

[earwicker7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif What part of vinyl sound do you want, the surface noise, or mistracking on volume climaxes? What always seems to be the case is that the vinyl fans are not headphone listeners but listen to speakers where the above problems are less noticeable.

Yeah, not so much. I only listen to headphones, and I'm pretty sure my Omega2 and AMT can pick up any faults in the source, given that they're both known as some of the most resolving headphones out there. I'm guessing you've probably never heard a properly set up turntable (by properly set up, I mean quality measuring tools for EVERY parameter, not "I have a $15 scale and a printout of a protractor I downloaded from the internet.")

 

[earwicker7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif And I'm sorry, but if you get HF distortion during loud passages, that is due to a cartridge not being aligned properly - that is not a problem inherent with the Vinyl medium.

x2

It's a shame to hear vinyl getting slammed by someone who doesn't understand that a poorly set up table is not a good representation of vinyl. It's like listening to a blown speaker and then trashing the brand. People get used to the plug and play aspect of CDs then think vinyl is trash because you can't get a good sound without hours (days in my case, as I used very precise tools and software and did three or four runs through the alignment process) of work.

 

[mark_h]

I don't think there is a great mystery to turntable setup, I used to be terrified of mine until one day I decided to dismantle it and discovered it was not a turbine engine but a fairly simple suspended deck. From then on setup was a diddle with the fine tuning done by ear after alignment using downloaded protractors! Now system synergy, that's a whole different can of worms! I use my stax setup with vinyl and classical dynamics never mistrack!

 

[ghostmusic]

The sound out of a good vinyl system is just different from any digital sound. As for the post re: vinyl sounding bad/inferior, if this is the consensus, then why would so many CDP manufacturers or critics or consumers claim a certain CDP has an 'analog quality,' as though that were the chief virtue and selling point of digital gear? If digital is so superior sounding, isn't it ironic that all these top-rate digital playback gear clamor to be seen as vinyl-like? Enough said, I think.

 

[edstrelow]

I can honestly say that I have listened to at least one of my recordings (Chopin Waltzes) where I had both a cd and an lp and the lp sounded better. But I think it was a mastering issue with the cd.

As regards the initial question, I get good "vinyl" sound from cd's which I have burned from lp's with a standalone cd burner. These sound very good and seem to have the "whatever it is" that vinyl has. So I don't think there is much fundamentally wriong with the cd medium.

However I do not find the lp to be a good headphone medium. I did listen to lp's through headphones in the pre-digital era but since then the noise, wow, flutter and restricted dynamics issues mean that my my 800 plus lps don't get much play time.

I am sure there are some gorgeous vinyl sounds to be had, especially at the top end and especially using speakers but phones bring out the vinyl flaws too clearly.

 

[btf1980]

No, if you want vinyl sound, then listen to vinyl. I know, groundbreaking stuff.

 

[Happy Camper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can honestly say that I have listened to at least one of my recordings (Chopin Waltzes) where I had both a cd and an lp and the lp sounded better. But I think it was a mastering issue with the cd. As regards the initial question, I get good "vinyl" sound from cd's which I have burned from lp's with a standalone cd burner. These sound very good and seem to have the "whatever it is" that vinyl has. So I don't think there is much fundamentally wriong with the cd medium. However I do not find the lp to be a good headphone medium. I did listen to lp's through headphones in the pre-digital era but since then the noise, wow, flutter and restricted dynamics issues mean that my my 800 plus lps don't get much play time. I am sure there are some gorgeous vinyl sounds to be had, especially at the top end and especially using speakers but phones bring out the vinyl flaws too clearly.

I agree with this. If you can rip a lp to sound as good as it does, why does commercial cds sound so bad and can you do anything to make these cds sound better?

 

[Skylab]

Ironically, one reason CDs ripped from LPs can sound better than commercial LP's is the LP mastering is better in that it doesn't use a compressor/limiter to crush the dynamic range like CD releases do. So if you "needle drop" your LP's onto a CD and you do it carefully, it can actually have MORE dynamic range than the CD release.

 

[Karo]

Maybe try one of these, the tone is right and the price is right on. Get a real cable.

NAD 5325 Compact Disc Player - Canuck Audio Mart

[size=x-small]"Limeeeter/Expaaaaander number one !" - ramzi[/size]

 

[sheppard]

jp11801,
Just wondering, was it at a store that you were able to listen to the Spectral and Alpha? I'm in the South Bay and would love to hear that comparison!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Spectral was game changing good and was in another league when compared to the Berkeley Alpha. The alpha was fed from an Ayre cdp and sounded great like exceptional digital. When we switched between the two the Alpha was the slightest bit hard and had a flatter soundstage compared to the Spectral. Now with that said I would gladly take the Alpha dac and it was excellent but the spectral bowled me over. I really want to hear the spectral dac compared to the berkeley as $17500 is a number that is just never going to happen for me.

 

[gregorio]

On the technical side there is no argument. CD is far superior in every way, orders of magnitude more dynamic range and way more linear in frequency response. However, this isn't really the issue. Tape saturation and the many artefacts in analogue recordings (compared to digital) and the vinyl creation process itself actually result in a sound quality which can be described as "rich" and "warm".

Over the years many manufacturers of digital processors have attempted to model the analogue artefacts in digital processors. In my opinion this has not been accomplished entirely successfully yet.

It really doesn't matter how much money you spend on a CD player, CDs do not sound like vinyl. It's the recording and production which makes the difference, not the CD player or DAC and certainly not the cable! Some CDs are so well recorded, mixed and mastered that I personally prefer the sound of these CDs to vinyl but unfortunately, there are many more poorly engineered CDs than there are excellent ones. A large part of this is cost cutting by record labels in response to lower sales and profits, caused at least partially by easy piracy of digital audio products and by the fact that for quite a few genres of music the consumers don't seem to care much about audio quality.

G

 

[Karo]

This is not a simulation.