[Jamie G]

Hi,

I'm in the process of building a balanced XLR cable for my Sundaras, but wanted to double check the wiring first. I'm pretty sure its this:


XLR Pin

1 = Left Tip

2 = Left Sleeve

3 = Right Tip

4 = Right Sleeve


Is that correct? Any feedback would be much appreciated.


Cheers all

 

[tomb]

Hi,

I'm in the process of building a balanced XLR cable for my Sundaras, but wanted to double check the wiring first. I'm pretty sure its this:


XLR Pin

1 = Left Tip

2 = Left Sleeve

3 = Right Tip

4 = Right Sleeve


Is that correct? Any feedback would be much appreciated.


Cheers all

This (full-size 4-pin XLR plug):

and this (I assume it's a connector at the headphone):

If your balanced cable is four equivalent wires, then it really doesn't matter which is R- or R+, as long as you are certain to keep them identical to the Left channel wires. If your balanced cable is using a shield for one of each of the channel connections, then you'd probably want the shield to be the "-" or "Sleeve" component of each channel's signal.

 

[Jamie G]

This (full-size 4-pin XLR plug):


and this (I assume it's a connector at the headphone):


If your balanced cable is four equivalent wires, then it really doesn't matter which is R- or R+, as long as you are certain to keep them identical to the Left channel wires. If your balanced cable is using a shield for one of each of the channel connections, then you'd probably want the shield to be the "-" or "Sleeve" component of each channel's signal.

Thanks for the reply.

Just to confirm that the balanced cable i am making is four individual wires with a male XLR for the amp connection, and two 3.5mm TRS plugs for connecting to the Sundaras. No additional shield connection (that's not actually required is it? I've previously made a balanced cable for my HD 650s that was just using the four conductors and that worked perfectly).

So based on the images it looks like i was on the right track, except that R+ goes to the Ring rather than the Tip? Am i reading that right? The link below shows an image that does correspond with the one above...what's thrown me is the poster's comment about balanced cables for Hifiman using mono 3.5mm TS for connection to the headphones when the image shows the Ring being used for the right plug. I apologise if i'm missing something very obvious, i just want to make sure i've got this right before doing any soldering!

https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/hifiman-sundara-diy-balanced-cable-wiring-help/12303

Again, appreciate your help with this.

Jamie

 

[tomb]

Thanks for the reply.

Just to confirm that the balanced cable i am making is four individual wires with a male XLR for the amp connection, and two 3.5mm TRS plugs for connecting to the Sundaras. No additional shield connection (that's not actually required is it? I've previously made a balanced cable for my HD 650s that was just using the four conductors and that worked perfectly).

So based on the images it looks like i was on the right track, except that R+ goes to the Ring rather than the Tip? Am i reading that right? The link below shows an image that does correspond with the one above...what's thrown me is the poster's comment about balanced cables for Hifiman using mono 3.5mm TS for connection to the headphones when the image shows the Ring being used for the right plug. I apologise if i'm missing something very obvious, i just want to make sure i've got this right before doing any soldering!

https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/hifiman-sundara-diy-balanced-cable-wiring-help/12303

Again, appreciate your help with this.

Jamie

You need to confirm EXACTLY what type of connectors you're proposing to use - on both ends of the cable - and also define EXACTLY what connector(s) already exist at the headphone cans/drivers before you ask any more questions.

Obviously, HiFiMan has used different connectors at different times for different phones. We need to know exactly what you have before commenting further.

 

[Jamie G]

As already stated, 4 pin xlr male at the amp end, 4 individual connections going to dual 3.5mm trs connectors at the headphone end. The existing connectors on the headphones are 3.5mm trs.

Not sure what other info I can provide / is required.

 

[tomb]

As already stated, 4 pin xlr male at the amp end, 4 individual connections going to dual 3.5mm trs connectors at the headphone end. The existing connectors on the headphones are 3.5mm trs.

Not sure what other info I can provide / is required.

By definition, "TRS" is two channels plus a shared ground (typically) - Tip, Ring, Sleeve. So, if it's really true that they are TRS, then one connection on each plug and socket is not used. That means we are only guessing which connections are used.

I suspect you really have tip and sleeve, only, but perhaps a picture would settle it.

 

[Jamie G]

By definition, "TRS" is two channels plus a shared ground (typically) - Tip, Ring, Sleeve. So, if it's really true that they are TRS, then one connection on each plug and socket is not used. That means we are only guessing which connections are used.

I suspect you really have tip and sleeve, only, but perhaps a picture would settle it.

Ok, below is a link to the official Sundara replacement cable from the Hifiman store

SUNDARA Stock Cable (TRS 3.5mm-to-3.5mm)

Is that not TRS? Because it sure looks like it to me

I found the image below on another forum (can add the link to the post if required). This looks like it confirms that one connection on each plug is not used doesn't it? If correct, can i use the signal / ground indicators shown on the 2.5mm balanced plug and match them to the applicable pins as shown in your images of XLR plugs above?

This seems logical, but if not i'd like to understand why not.

Thanks

 

[buke9]

Do you have a multimeter to check the right trs is made that way ?

 

[Jamie G]

Do you have a multimeter to check the right trs is made that way ?

Good thinking!

So I can confirm that neither of the rings are in use (L or R) The connections to the output of the stock cable are:

Right Tip = Ring
Right Sleeve = Sleeve

Left Tip = Tip
Left Sleeve = Sleeve

So I think tomb was on the right track, they could be TS, it's just that TRS were used.

Thoughts?

Thanks again for input folks. Hopefully we're getting there!

 

[buke9]

Good thinking!

So I can confirm that neither of the rings are in use (L or R) The connections to the output of the stock cable are:

Right Tip = Ring
Right Sleeve = Sleeve

Left Tip = Tip
Left Sleeve = Sleeve

So I think tomb was on the right track, they could be TS, it's just that TRS were used.

Thoughts?

Thanks again for input folks. Hopefully we're getting there!

So that last diagram you had was incorrect ?

 

[Jamie G]

So that last diagram you had was incorrect ?

Certainly seems like it. Thanks for suggesting checking with the multimeter.

So after all that it sounds like the layout I initially put in my first post is right...or am I missing something else?


Thanks

 

[buke9]

Certainly seems like it. Thanks for suggesting checking with the multimeter.

So after all that it sounds like the layout I initially put in my first post is right...or am I missing something else?


Thanks

Nope looks like you’re good to go Good Luck.

 

[Jamie G]

Nope looks like you’re good to go Good Luck.

Excellent, appreciate your help with this. Stay safe.

Jamie

 

[buke9]

Excellent, appreciate your help with this. Stay safe.

Jamie

You too.

 

[tomb]

Ok, below is a link to the official Sundara replacement cable from the Hifiman store

SUNDARA Stock Cable (TRS 3.5mm-to-3.5mm)

Is that not TRS? Because it sure looks like it to me

I found the image below on another forum (can add the link to the post if required). This looks like it confirms that one connection on each plug is not used doesn't it? If correct, can i use the signal / ground indicators shown on the 2.5mm balanced plug and match them to the applicable pins as shown in your images of XLR plugs above?

This seems logical, but if not i'd like to understand why not.



Thanks

It sort of seems logical, but massively outside of mainstream thinking.

I suspect perhaps HiFiMan did this for two reasons:

1. Single channel (I guess "TS") 3.5mm connectors are not as common as 3.5mm TRS connectors, and
2. They probably thought (or marketed it as such) that wiring the Left vs. the Right TRS connector differently (ring on R and tip on L) provides an additional safety measure in ensuring that the Left and Right plugs don't get swapped. Plugged in reverse, the headphones would simply be dead. Swap them Left vs Right and the headphones would operate.

In either event, this is why I questioned the type of connector used at the headphone. Previous comments/pictures on the full size, 4-pin XLR on the amp end of the headphone cable are all still valid. To follow convention (it really doesn't make a difference), the sleeve wire from each headphone driver should connect to the "-" pins of the XLR jack.

All that said, buke9 is absolutely correct. You should probably not attempt any of this without a DMM. Wired incorrectly, you could easily short out the headphones or destroy an amplifier. There is no check on your work that results in a non-destructive test without a DMM.