[brianz]

I just ordered a pair of the Denon AH-D7000s. It won't be delivered for a while though (out of stock). I'm wondering how well my Yamaha RX-V2700 receiver will drive them. It was the second-best receiver in their lineup two years ago, so I have to believe it'll drive them well. I'm just wondering if anybody else uses similar model Yamahas for driving their headphones and, if so, what they thought relative to a dedicated headphone amp. The headphones have an impedance of 25 ohms and a very high sensitivity at 108.

Appreciate any comments.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[Headdie]

My HTR-5960 does a good job driving my D2000 !

 

[Seba]

My H/K AVR645 drives my D5000 very good, but Grado's didn't sound good at all. Also I have a JVC mini-stereo system and Denon's sound pretty good from it too.

So rest assured, they definately will perform great from Yamaha.

 

[Oink1]

Will it drive them? - Yes, probably. (Yay!)
Will it drive them to anywhere near their capability? - No, 'fraid not. (Boo!)

 

[BigTony]

You'll be fine to get good performance out of the amp; a dedicated amp might squeeze some extra out of the denons.

 

[QQQ]

Quote:

Will it drive them to anywhere near their capability?

If 90% is NOT anywhere near their capability then my ignore got a new member. AGAIN. Damn.

 

[Oink1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by QQQ /img/forum/go_quote.gif If 90% is NOT anywhere near their capability then my ignore got a new member. AGAIN. Damn.

Aimed at me? Ooooh, get her! What makes you think a manufacturers 'afterthought' of slapping a poorly implemented Headphone output on the front of a receiver would give you 90% of the available performance of that can?

Have we all been sucked in by this new fangled dedicated head amp craze?

Go ahead and ignore me - make my day!

You have the distinction of being the first person I have ever put on an ignore list

 

[brianz]

Thanks for all the comments thus far. Didn't mean to rile up the crowd! Most people here and elsewhere seem to agree that Yamaha's middle to higher end receivers drive most high-end headphones well (not sure about the high impedance Senns though). So, that's encouraging.

I am willing to get a dedicated amp if needed - I am just not going to assume that all receivers' build-in headphone amps are awful from the get-go. I'll give it a listen through the Yamaha and if I'm anything less than blown away I might try a home headphone amp (not portable) with a return policy so I can compare. But I'd say there's a good chance that the improvement from a dedicated amp could be minimal at best.

I'll post an update on my impressions when they arrive. Thanks again!

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

I am just not going to assume that all receivers' build-in headphone amps are awful from the get-go.

And you're smart not to. Most receivers, Yamahas included, use the main preamp and a couple of the speaker amps, stepped down through resistors, to drive their headphone sections. It is not an afterthought so much as it is an adaptation of all of the forethought put into the receiver itself, adapted to a headphone jack. Could they do a poor job of implementation? Sure, but why would they? The cost of doing it well is negligible. The one problem there seems to be with this methodology is that it makes for a rather high output impedance at the headphone jack, which can alter the frequency response of low impedance cans (resulting in a slight lack of bass control). So, actually, it has the potential to negatively impact Dennons, but would probably have no audible effect on high impedance Senns.

The other indicator in Yamaha's favor is that they have a dedicated, proprietary, and high-quality headphone surround sound simulator called Silent Cinema. You may not be interested in headphone surround sound, but the engineering it took to develop such a thing, rather than just paying the license fee to use the inferior Dolby Headphone, is an indication that Yamaha cares about the quality of their headphone circuit. An even better indication, in my view, is that I've listened to my Sennheiser HD580s through several Yamaha receivers, and all sounded excellent, especially with the Pure Direct bypass circuit engaged. But there's no need to take my word or take any chances. Just take your Denons to a local AV shop along with some CDs you know well, and plug them in. If it sounds good, what a bargain! A Yamaha 663, at the price of a mid-range dedicated headphone amp, is headamp, DAC, sophisticated digital audio processor and a 7.1 surround sound receiver.

Tim

 

[Tyler J]

Tfarney is right on the money in my experience. I have not used the headphone out of a yamaha, but the headphone out on my Denon 5700 is indeed about 90% as good as the dedicated amps I have heard. It is so close that IMO anyone on a budget and interested in an AVR is crazy to spend a bunch of cash on an amp. I also agree for the most part that harder to drive phones sound better on AVRs. The K 601s actually sounded better from the Denon, the HD595s sounded terrible , and my D2000s sounded about 90% as good as the seperate amp. Listen for yourself, don't believe the hype.

 

[tfarney]

This...

Quote:

Listen for yourself, don't believe the hype.

...is the operative sentence.

Some people will tell you that no receiver or integrated amp (or whichever one you happen to mention) could possibly be the equal of a dedicated headphone amp, that they are all afterthought, pasted-on crap. Others will try to convince you that the headphone jack of their receiver is the equal of any dedicated headphone amp on the planet. No need to pay attention. They're actually talking to themselves.

Tim

 

[brianz]

Thanks tfarney and Tyler, good stuff. Interesting about the potential slight lack of bass control on low impedance cans. Maybe after trying them on my Yamaha I can compare them with a headphone amp at a local AV shop. Sounds like they should be very similar.

 

[kool bubba ice]

I use a Yamaha 1800. Drives my 5 ohm 48s very well. No hissing.