[myinitialsaredac]

Gatto,

If you can have him terminate the amp in 1/4th, but as most cmoy and pocket amps go they terminate it to 1/8th in which case ull need an 1/4th to 1/8th adapter for the k701s.

The amp can connect to your ipod via 2 ways. One way is you get a mini to mini (1/8th to 1/8th) cable and plug one end into the top of your ipod (the headphone out) and one end into your amp, then plug your headphones into the amp. The second way is with the dock ports cables you are talking about. They are called LOD's (line out docks). The LOD provides you a line level (it also bypasses music fouling circuitry) output from your ipod and is terminated with a 1/8th conector on the other side which plugs into your amp.

Of the 2, the LOD will sound better, but will cost you between 20-150$ depending on what kind of cabling and terminations and manufacturer you want. You can find LOD's from DIYers (do it yourselfers) here on head-fi, you can get them from qables, ALO, solozaudio.com, and I'm sure there are other options. Given your current setup, you wont need an uber expensive LOD, partly due to the stock ipod opamps and dac, and partly due to the kind of amp you will be using. Whilst i am a firm believer in getin good interconnects, the LOD cable does not make sense to go all out on because of the stock ddac and opamps in the ipod. My recomendation is to buy one used, get a DIYer to make you one, or find a cardas or the likes mini to mini cable.

Dave

 

[Luminette]

K701s out of a cmoy is just a bigger waste of money than buying the k701s only (which would indeed sound awful undriven)

And your mobile application is really not going to work for you if you want any kind of isolation for keeping sound out (even a quiet environment with no people has enough noise to significantly impair your listening)

And you would leak sound - how much dependant on your volume levels and how much they leak (I can't comment - I don't remember) but it would presumably leak more than any closed phone you've ever tried

The price it would cost to get an amp that can really drive the k701s is going to, at best, mirror the cost of your k701s (if bought used). And that would be for a home amp


I suggest an easier to drive & closed headphone. And, with that, a Line-out Dock for the iPod (LOD) and then into a cmoy or whatever portable headphone amp you go with. Using the LOD is important because you bypass using the iPod's own low-grade amplifier and send the unamped signal right out to your significantly better amp - it's pretty silly to just connect it from the headphone out because you're only reamplifying a poopy signal. You would get some gain in this but if you're spending 200+ on headphones and 40+ on a portable amp, you should spend 20-30 on an LOD here (can easily find a simple one or have one made for you by another head-fier at this price) or from some of the more 'official' companies like Sherwood listed. When I first got into this, I was going that route because DIY stuff just didn't seem reliable to me. I'm over that

And if you're already alright with a cmoy then perhaps you can save yourself the wallet-ache of fearing DIY


If you are insistent on the k701s, then give up on the portable idea unless you want to spend 400+ on an amp, and the only one I really have in mind would be the TTVJ Millet Hybrid Portable. (And that is not really a suggestion, just info)

At that point, your home amp choices would be pretty big - a popular entry point amp would be the darkvoice 336i - again I'd suggest buying used - but, again, the cost is going to be 250+ at least. And you'd still want to use an LOD if your iPod is the source - though you'd likely need an LOD that is terminated to something other than a mini if you are plugging it into a home amp.

I'll also mention the importance of your source being better than an iPod if you'd be spending this much on headphones and an amp - a decent entry-level soundcard or USB DAC is not so expensive


Feel free to PM me with any questions

 

[Sherwood]

Gatto,

As you've no doubt realized, the K701 is rather notorious for sounding bad out of less-than-stellar equipment. I bought Luminette's K701 because he wasn't happy with it out of his very good equipment.

I have to agree with his above assessment. The K701s are really intended for very close listening at home through studio equipment, or dedicated "plug into the wall" headphone equipment. There are many, many other headphones that will meet your needs better for less money.

 

[Gatto]

ok, I'm still a little confused though, when you say sounding bad what do you mean? its not loud enough, not enough bass? it crackles or does the music just lose something?

 

[Gatto]

money isn't the problem here, I'm just afraid of putting a lot of money into it and not hearing a huge difference, I really like the AKG k701s and I'm sure within a few months I'll get a good home amp for it as well as the portable amp (or a better portable amp), I am just afraid to start at the top of the line and not be able to appreciate it.

 

[Luminette]

Your approach is sensible and I advocate it. The k701s just may not be an option for you, then, because while they themselves are cheap, getting them to actually be k701s is not such an entry level price point mission

I'm somewhat tempted to tell you that your investment would be safe in that it is all improvement, but, who knows how much you'll be noticing (you'll soak in more with more listening practice) or how much you will value the benefits vs how much you payed. So I won't tell you that it's fine

I'd come back to suggesting either that you jump into something nice that will support the k701s (it sounds like you've already heard them since you say that you like them) or that you go for another set of nice closed and easy to drive cans (you would probably still want these anyhow for your portable applications) and see how much different you note out of those going the LOD - portable amp --> whatever-headphones route

If you buy used here (you're not guaranteed safety but you can stick only to people with significant feedback) then you aren't really going to lose much $ in trying the stuff out, since things resell then at close to the same value. I've resold stuff higher than I got it for - it just depends on the deal you got to begin with


Oh - and for it sounding bad. The k701s are a very demanding pair of cans when it comes to what it takes to drive them fully. What they sound like as a result of being undriven... Well, I just want to summarize that everything fails pretty badly but that's not going to sound too convincing for you. From some of my own experiences - the body of all of the music is really a lot less full... it's weak feeling. I would also have issues of the bass being really mudded and non-resonant. Your detail retrieval is going to be comparatively inexistent. Soundstage would also be pretty inexistent. Instrument seperation would be pretty crowded.

Everything would suck and it would be silly that you payed that much for that sound. The reality of this stuff is that it just gets a bit more complex than picking a nice headphone like the k701 and boom you've got your k701 sound. I would definitely prefer probably any fully driven $100 headphone over any not-fully driven $300 headphone.

Because you live in NYC, I would also recommend your checking to see if anyone lives close and/or would let you come around to listen to their gear some - so you can get a feel for some high-end gear and experiment with things like what the headphones sound like undriven as compared to driven (bring your iPod) - ask questions etc. Head-fi has a lot of people who would be happy to share their stuff with you like this.

 

[Sherwood]

Well, considering what you're coming from the K701 would certainly be an upgrade. You'll have no trouble hearing the difference.

If money is truly not an issue, here's my recommendation.

Amp --- cable ---- ipod ---- K701

If you want to do this thing right, that's the way to do it. I imagine you'd prefer to take a few steps down from that, though. If not, enjoy your portable equivalent of my stupendous home gear, and we'll share stories about how great everything sounds.

I really don't want to come off as flip here, so I hope I do not. I'm just showing you what kind of investment you are looking at to get the full performace out of K701s in a portable application. You can spend more and get more out of them on home equipment.

You will be able to find great sound for less money, even with the same headphones. This is the summit, in my opinion, so that you know what to aim for if you really, really want to. Those items represent insanity.

 

[manaox2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatto /img/forum/go_quote.gif ok, I'm still a little confused though, when you say sounding bad what do you mean? its not loud enough, not enough bass? it crackles or does the music just lose something?

Mostly flat, no bass, no dynamics and just plain boring.

 

[Gatto]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, considering what you're coming from the K701 would certainly be an upgrade. You'll have no trouble hearing the difference. If money is truly not an issue, here's my recommendation. Amp --- cable ---- ipod ---- K701 If you want to do this thing right, that's the way to do it. I imagine you'd prefer to take a few steps down from that, though. If not, enjoy your portable equivalent of my stupendous home gear, and we'll share stories about how great everything sounds. I really don't want to come off as flip here, so I hope I do not. I'm just showing you what kind of investment you are looking at to get the full performace out of K701s in a portable application. You can spend more and get more out of them on home equipment. You will be able to find great sound for less money, even with the same headphones. This is the summit, in my opinion, so that you know what to aim for if you really, really want to. Those items represent insanity.

ooo that is cool! what is the difference between a regular ipod and the one you linked me to? can I still use itunes? I also only paid $250 for my K701s. I still think I might want to start with just my regular ipod, probably a nice LOD cable and whatever amp my friend John can squeeze into a mint tin, I trust him, he is a huge audiophile and graduated top of our HS class then when to carnegie mellon for computer science. I'm sure there will still be a huge difference between the stuff you linked me to and what I'll end up with for now but I like to start off in the middle and work up to the top, I feel like it makes me appreciate things more, even though in the end it ends up a little more expensive. if it makes a big difference I will definitely look into modded ipods, is it hard to do?

 

[Sherwood]

Yeah, kinda hard to do.

A guy on here has posted a tutorial on how it can be done, but the preferred method is ordering them from ALO/RedWine Audio, or sending yours in to be modded.

Concerning your future rig, let us know how the amp and K701s turn out. You could have saved us some time had you let us know you had already bought them...

 

[Gatto]

Im sorry! I thought I said I got them... I don't have them yet though and I will have a month to return them if once I start really using them I don't like them

 

[cdingdong]

Sorry guys, I'm a noob. I was wondering why some people have a dedicated external DAC and an amp. So, does it work like this: computer's digital signal goes to DAC via USB (or some other connection), DAC converts it to analog signal, the analog signal goes to amp, amp makes it sound better, signal goes to headphones? I have a Mac and Equation RP-21 with onboard sound. If I got a dedicated DAC (I hear a lot about the EMU-0404), would I still need an amp? Does the DAC make my music sound better, and is that enough? Would having DAC and amp make my music sound even better?

 

[AudioPhewl]

Digital files stored on your PC.
DAC connects to a digital output from the PC - either USB, or coax/optical.
DAC converts the digital data into analogue audible sounds - it's a glorified soundcard, to all intents and purposes.
The DAC then...
---Outputs the analogue sound signal to it's built-in headphone amplifier.
or...
---Outputs the analogue sound signal to the RCA jacks on the rear, which are then fed into an external headphone amplifier.
Headphone amplifier then sends the amplified analogue audio signal to your headphones, where you have an eargasm and fall in love with your expensive headphones

.

The DAC is needed to make analogue noise from a digital music file. Your ears are analogue, as are headphones and loudspeakers. Computer files and CDs are digital.
The amplifier then boosts the signal to a level needed to power a pair of headphones.
Headphones receive the signal and make music in your ears

.

For a budget newbie solution, IMO look at the Zero DAC, with a heavily used thread in this same forum. It comes complete with a fairly good amplifier which'll give you a great insight into how good music can sound, and it's only around $150 all-in for the DAC and headphone amplifier.

~Phewl.

 

[cdingdong]

So, how does the Zero compare to the Emu 0404 USB? I also have computer speakers that use the 1/8" plug. So, if I bought an adapter with RCA male to 1/8" female, I could listen to music through my speakers right? Also, if I were to connect a PC that does not have optical to the Zero DAC, would I just buy a Xitel MD-Port DG2 to convert the USB to optical?

See, the Emu 0404 looks more convenient because there are many more types of ports on there, but my priority is sound quality. That's why I'd like to know how the Zero compares to the Emu 0404. Which one is a better DAC, which one has a better amp? Which one is the better bang for my buck?