[Stitch]

Somthing else: Inverted Phase.
What does it do, sound-wise. I tried it expecting something like less left/right separation but i cant really discover any change yet

 

[Bloodoath]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stitch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Somthing else: Inverted Phase. What does it do, sound-wise. I tried it expecting something like less left/right separation but i cant really discover any change yet

The manual simply says the Phase button is the invert the phase if it appears some other component is inverting the musical signal. I've tried it, but do not see a difference on my setup.

 

[Drubbing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stitch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Somthing else: Inverted Phase. What does it do, sound-wise. I tried it expecting something like less left/right separation but i cant really discover any change yet

Some people and reviewers say the phases offer subtle differences in presentation. If must be their ears or the sort of music they're listening to, because I've had mine for 4 months and can't hear a lick of diff between any of them.

 

[thathertz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by msahau /img/forum/go_quote.gif After that, I just realise that DM is a good bargain, but it is also quite easy to get significant improvement over it for something about 1.5 times its price.

Please give examples, thanks.

 

[msahau]

I think I already gave an example...... The one I favour now is PS Audio digital link III, I got the stock version without mods.

To my ears, and when combined with my existing system, the sound was upgraded to another class entirely, not just sound different or minor upgrade.

Of course, depending on your taste and the effect after combining with other components, you may totally disagree with me.

I still think, if only the DM gets better power supply and better OPAM stage, it would fullfil its full potential. And I still hate the fact that the DM's power supply plastic case actually melted when I unplug it from the wall after 6 months of use. It is not just audio issue but also a safety issue to me.

Anyways, I think it is totally and entirely understandable that other may feel DM is under-rated by me as each of us has different taste and different system.

 

[msahau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thathertz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Please give examples, thanks.

I can give you another example, a few years back in my old apartment, I got my hands on a 2nd hand Wadia 17 for about $500, in conjunction with a Onkyo AV amp and a pair of entry level KEF floor speakers, I still remember it, a product introduced so many years ago, had a lot more detail and positioning then the DM in conjunction with my new system (which is based on a CA 840A and ProAc speakers). The only thing that is not as good is, the Wadia gave a sound that is too "bright" and has more digital feel to then DM, but the details was incredible and was uniformly good at everything I threw to it.

Given the technology advance in DAC chips and other components and no digial signal processing, the Wadia 17 was still giving a sound that is more classy than the DM.

I really think the basic circuit design, the power supply, built and quality of components inside was more important for products at this class as opposed to the chips used. The Wadia 17 was heavy and feels substantial to my hands while the DM was too light with funny power supply.

I just think you can really get some good deals in the 2nd hand market and they are not necessarily going to be less of a bargain.

 

[dallan]

Ya, I consider my DM a great deal for the money. When I finally upgraded to another dac, just the mod(including the parts) cost more than 4x the cost of a Dacmagic, and the DM is far from unusable, I still have it hooked up to one of the computers here.

 

[rwellerson]

Hi all

I didn't read all posts on this DAC magic thread (but will...) and I think this is very interesting stuff to read:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1913626
(specially post #24)

I made the XLR to RCA cables as suggested and it is a big diff and, to my ears, a lot better resulting performance soundwise.

Also using a new "psu" trafo (9 to 10VAC secondaries, 5A... ) and the DAC itself is way cooler now: also noticed better dynamics, less congestion, very very open soundstage.
Not going back to original, no way...

Anyone tried these mods?
Any comments?

[ ]s
Ricardo

 

[FauDrei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwellerson /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyone tried these mods? Any comments?

Yep, I've tried the bypass mod. Sounds cleaner and more natural than with caps in play. Nothing dramatic, but definitely perceivable upgrade.

Beware though - if there is more than 10-15 mV over ANY of six output caps - DO NOT DO IT! (if you do not have a clue what am I talking about - also do not do it)

 

[rwellerson]

Hi FauDrei

Quote:

Originally Posted by FauDrei /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yep, I've tried the bypass mod. Sounds cleaner and more natural than with caps in play. Nothing dramatic, but definitely perceivable upgrade. please read all the posts on that link: the signals for the XLR output are taken before they go into that 3rd chip (OP275?) which is there just to reconvert (sum) the - and + phases to output on RCAs... That chip also is "injecting" its own personality on the sound on the (unbalanced) RCAs... This way it is very easy to dislike/abandon the RCAs outputs by comparison, try this and listen by yourself. All this still has nothing to do with removing /shorting the coupling electros on the outputs (a total of 6 caps and 6 bypasses). All you'll be doing is getting a cleaner (lots of...) signals through the + phase on the XLR before it is sent to the OPA above... Beware though - if there is more than 10-15 mV over ANY of six output caps - DO NOT DO IT! (if you do not have a clue what am I talking about - also do not do it) of course... do that only if one measures around 1 or 2 mV (or less) on those caps above.

[ ]
Ricardo

 

[FauDrei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwellerson /img/forum/go_quote.gif please read all the posts on that link: the signals for the XLR output are taken before they go into that 3rd chip (OP275?) which is there just to reconvert (sum) the - and + phases to output on RCAs... That chip also is "injecting" its own personality on the sound on the (unbalanced) RCAs... This way it is very easy to dislike/abandon the RCAs outputs by comparison, try this and listen by yourself. All this still has nothing to do with removing /shorting the coupling electros on the outputs (a total of 6 caps and 6 bypasses). All you'll be doing is getting a cleaner (lots of...) signals through the + phase on the XLR before it is sent to the OPA above...

Well Ricardo...

How did you imply that I have mistaken XLR to RCA output conversion for output caps bypassing?

If you too give a look at the same link again, you could read me asking Glenn (the guy who originated this tweak idea) the details about performing the tweaks... and I've tested them and have done them all.

Of course, taking positive phase from XLR output sounds better than RCA: there is no OP275 buffer on it. The only price you pay - you have lower output level compared to RCA through OP275 and/or complete XLR differential signal with both phases. But this is not a problem for any decent (unbalanced) amp you pass such signal to. If you use just "full" balanced output - no problem with OP275 at all.

...and I beg to differ: all six output cap pairs (electrolytes + MKPs) are located between opamps and appropriate output sockets (four output caps pairs between four NE5532 differential opamps and XLR outputs; two output caps pairs between two OP275 RCA buffers and RCA outputs). There are no output caps BETWEEN differential and buffer opamps. Bypassing output caps will have a positive audible effect no matter which output you use. No cap will always sound better than even the best cap in signal path.

So, Ricardo, which part of my previous short post made you think that I messed up balanced to RCA conversion with output caps bypass?

 

[rwellerson]

Quote:

So, Ricardo, which part of my previous short post made you think that I messed up balanced to RCA conversion with output caps bypass?

Hi FauDrei

This part:
"Yep, I've tried the bypass mod. Sounds cleaner and more natural than with caps in play"

I understood you said you tried with no caps (or shorted caps...)

And on my post I never mentioned anything about those caps and its title said it right away: don't even had to open the DAC case for these mods...

But lets proceed on things really useful about this stuff: do you have any schematics on this DAC?
What other mods did you experiment?

BTW: I am using a 9~10 VAC trafo on the PSU and smiling at the improvements I got with this very simple (and safer, cooler...) mod.
Any comments on this?

[ ]
Ricardo

 

[FauDrei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwellerson /img/forum/go_quote.gif This part: "Yep, I've tried the bypass mod. Sounds cleaner and more natural than with caps in play" I understood you said you tried with no caps (or shorted caps...)

...and I thought exactly of that (output cap bypassing).
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwellerson /img/forum/go_quote.gif And on my post I never mentioned anything about those caps and its title said it right away: don't even had to open the DAC case for these mods...

...and it may be so, but in link you mentioned for us to see they are, kind of, crucial part of listed mods.

Most rewarding one IMO (after opamp swapping - but this would be another topic).

 

[thathertz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by msahau /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can give you another example, a few years back in my old apartment, I got my hands on a 2nd hand Wadia 17 for about $500, in conjunction with a Onkyo AV amp and a pair of entry level KEF floor speakers, I still remember it, a product introduced so many years ago, had a lot more detail and positioning then the DM in conjunction with my new system (which is based on a CA 840A and ProAc speakers). The only thing that is not as good is, the Wadia gave a sound that is too "bright" and has more digital feel to then DM, but the details was incredible and was uniformly good at everything I threw to it. Given the technology advance in DAC chips and other components and no digial signal processing, the Wadia 17 was still giving a sound that is more classy than the DM. I really think the basic circuit design, the power supply, built and quality of components inside was more important for products at this class as opposed to the chips used.

Not sure about the Wadia but the PS Audio III is [size=medium]£[/size]900 in the UK.
I see it can be bought for $699 in the USA which seems to be a great
deal if indeed it is that good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by msahau /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Wadia 17 was heavy and feels substantial to my hands while the DM was too light with funny power supply.

The DacMagic feels very solid and robust to me, especially considering it's
diminutive size. Certainly, at this price point the build quality is very
good indeed.

As for the PSU, it's really just a simple transformer. Most of the work on
the power is done internally (inside the DacMagic).

 

[muz640]

Ive had both the BM Dac Pre and the Dacmagic, the Dacmagic is more than a match for the BM Dac SQ wise if running both through the balance outputs, to my ears and in my system the Dacmagic actually sounded a bit bigger soundstage wise and a bit more dynamic than the Benchmark (im running a Maplin 3VA tranformer to supply the Dacmagic, £15 from Maplins)

Where the BM Dac wins out is in excellent functionality.
I think the Benchmark Dac (like everything!) is a lot better value in the US, than it is in the UK.