[Hennyo]

Well just make sure you spend around 50$ if anything at all. It's not worth giving cables a bad rep because the one that would be awesome is just too much. What's 50$ in this hobby anyway. An invaluable piece that will improve your chain. In fact, I think Cinnamon would actually complement the 595 very well. Try Cinnamon. If you don't like it, or even if you do, just return it for full refund. All cable dealers naturally allow refund, and please pm me your findings as I won't be following this thread anymore. I think you'll be jamming harder than ever ;p Please also post your findings in this thread as I'm sure many will appreciate your opinion.
 
Great video by the way =D
Quote:

 
Well, that's the problem.  There is a point.  Placebo effects can be extremely powerful, and sometime are beyond your control.  Like this, for example:
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
{C}http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0 {C}
 
That said, I guess I'll just have to try aftermarket cables myself to see if there is a difference.  I just don't have any headphones I can do that with right now.  I definitely won't be spending much though, and I'll only get ones that I think look nice enough to be worth the price cosmetically alone...


 

 

[Yoga Flame]

 
Quote:

No need to subject myself to this ill educated, close-minded, sad, sad, BS. O.K. YOU DA BOSS, YAAA, Go Man go!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
 
 
Quote:

 
This is why nobody screws with it, because the trolling of good information is just too hard.
 

 

 

[Hennyo]

I like :40, I also liked 6:55. I explained cable vs cable as clearly as day. It would seem others are being "close minded" by completely blocking out how I have explained cable vs cable this far. What a perverted world. You can't play a race card by pointing at somebody else claiming completely falsely "they've played a race card." You won't confront what I've said and have reverted to making jokes. That's a great idea when all else fails in the world of open-minded logic, and widespread undeniable results. It would be sad if this debate were considered a stales-mate because just because you made a joke. Tell us you've been there and then your opinion matters. All else is useless and irrelevant information.
 
Well, the truth is the truth man, regardless of weather it's what you're used to or not, the truth has no pride. It doesn't care about your unconstructive analysis, or your jokes. The proof is in the pudding, and I, like anyone else who's given this a pot shot, just should have eaten it all up.
 
You want to fine tune your sound in your system? You go try a Carbon or a Cinnamon to whet your lips and get back to us.
 
Oh, and look, the OP got his recable.
 
I think the moral of this story is: Haters will hate the publisher if they don't like the results, and deny the majority who deserve those results.

 

[n3rdling]

I think people are asking for decent proof and you've just rambled all over the place without giving any proof.  Can you post links to the intellectual property of cable manufacturers you claimed exists earlier?

 

[drez]

Well while we're talking about misleading - the problem I have with digital cables is that people treat them and talk about them like analogue cables.  They are not analogue cables - the way in which they transmit audio is completely different, and the way in which they affect the end audio quality is completely different.  IMO they absolutely should not be designed like analogue interconnects, short of certain common design criteria like noise attenuation, however even this is not the same as it is with analogue interconnects.
 
To me it seems like a lot of cable manufacturers simply take what works with analogue and try it with digital, develop the products the same way they do analogue cables, and then sell products which are probably way off the mark.  Seems most of them use the same materials/techniques as they do analogue cables.  IMO this simply should not be.
 
Digital cables IMO should be developed closely with DAC designers, if not by them, not simply by applying analogue research to digital cable design.  This should carry through to the design research methodology.  NONE of the cable marketing I have so far come across has expressed this shift in design approach (this isn't saying much though so please correct me with an example.)
 
Any coloration of the digital interconnects' sound is a degradation of the signal quality, not an improvement.  If you want to adjust tone, IMO digital cable should not be the tool to do this with.  DIGITAL ≠ ANALOGE
 
When I find a manufacturer who expresses this design philosophy, I will buy their cable.
 
EDIT: Hmm don't Nuforce develop DAC's and cables?
 
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[jackmccabe]

I will believe that cables when someone can provide a single shred of evidence that they make a difference (not flawed)
I understand you spent money on it so it must be better right?
Well no sadly you are just fooled by cognitive bias and visual stimuli; the brain is a very powerful thing and people can easily be fooled by their senses.

 
People are happy to believe what they want because this keeps things simple.
Personally I believe that all audio equipment can be measured to show how good it is, unless you are looking for a coloured sound (i.e. tubes, nos dacs)
You seem to believe so strongly that cables make a difference that you are willing to ignore Physics.
It is only a matter of time before people begin explaining cable differences by claiming they are supernatural (your halfway there already).
Just because you perceive a difference does not mean it is there.

 

[kr0gg]

great video, by the way.
really amazing.

 

[vandaven]

Wonderful video! It's the proof that sometimes, life can be the grand illusion, especially with our hearing senses.
 
I also want to add that in regards to "red" (btw there is a very high probability that the brand and type of the cable has been mentioned in one of Hennyo's threads), this effect is also pretty obvious. It is a nice looking, probably well manufactured (didn't cut it open) cable. Before running my tests, I would also be of the opinion that it sounds better than your average USB cable. I also did a little test with my brother, playing the same song with "grey" and "red" (no blind test - so it might be allowed here), and he was also of the opinion that the music sounds sweeter with "red". 
 
It is the effect your brain has on the listening. You know what you're listening to is the more expensive cable, so it must sound better, thus, it also will sound better or different. This is normal human brain processing, and it's ok. Of course, it's a little bit disappointing if somebody tells you that the difference (which is, in all aspects, measurable) is not there, which can be clearly seen by the exaggeratedly emotional reactions. 
 

 

[svyr]

Well while we're talking about misleading - the problem I have with digital cables is that people treat them and talk about them like analogue cables.  They are not analogue cables - the way in which they transmit audio is completely different, and the way in which they affect the end audio quality is completely different.  IMO they absolutely should not be designed like analogue interconnects, short of certain common design criteria like noise attenuation, however even this is not the same as it is with analogue interconnects.
 
To me it seems like a lot of cable manufacturers simply take what works with analogue and try it with digital, develop the products the same way they do analogue cables, and then sell products which are probably way off the mark.  Seems most of them use the same materials/techniques as they do analogue cables.  IMO this simply should not be.
 
Digital cables IMO whould be developed closely with DAC designers, if not by them, not simply by applying analogue research to digital cable design.  This should carry through to the design research methodology.  NONE of the cable marketing I have so far come across has expressed this shift in design approach (this isn't saying much so please correct me with an example.)
 
Any coloration of the digital interconnects is a degradation of the signal quality, not an improvement.  If you want to adjust tone, IMO digital cable should not be the tool to do this with.  DIGITAL ≠ ANALOGE
 
When I find a manufacturer who expresses this design philosophy, I will buy their cable.

+1...

all they do is add a cryotreated-mega-jitter-reduction pseudo-science bs description, a thicker cable and less flexible/thicker insulation/more expensive connectors then an over9000% markup ...

WRT adjusting tone, someone on the prev page raised it (or was it 2 above). The data is a sample stream lol, the custom cables if they did cause an eq like change then they'd be decoding/processing/re-encoding. To propose that is next to preposterous...

 

[Willakan]

 
Quote:

all they do is add a cryotreated-mega-jitter-reduction pseudo-science bs description, a thicker cable and less flexible/thicker insulation/more expensive connectors then an over9000% markup

...

I love the psuedo-science justifications - best one I've seen was suggesting that inferior cables round the edges on your square waves, causing your DAC to misinterpret them (NOW SELLING: USB receiver without any form of digital filters or reconstruction! Bet someone would buy it if I shoved AUDIOPHILE PROFESSIONAL on it in giant gold letters. When it fails horribly, tell them their cables aren't expensive enough.)

 

[jackmccabe]

My favourite part about cable marketing is that they can't say that their products actually improve the sound or are better than any others, so they have to say stuff like "textured mids" "clear highs".
 
 

 

[svyr]

 

I love the psuedo-science justifications - best one I've seen was suggesting that inferior cables round the edges on your square waves, causing your DAC to misinterpret them (NOW SELLING: USB receiver without any form of digital filters or reconstruction! Bet someone would buy it if I shoved AUDIOPHILE PROFESSIONAL on it in giant gold letters. When it fails horribly, tell them their cables aren't expensive enough.)

>Bet someone would buy it if I shoved AUDIOPHILE PROFESSIONAL on it in giant gold letters.

I'd buy it... For the lolz, if it was < $50 ...

My favourite part about cable marketing is that they can't say that their products actually improve the sound or are better than any others, so they have to say stuff like "textured mids" "clear highs".
 
 

or simply state the bs marketing and make no claims to anything and let the impressionable audiophiles make up what they heard ...

 

[The Pell]

For those that have the high end cables and say it makes a difference: You say the audio sounds different, which would require a change in the sound wave coming out of the headphone. If that is the case, then we should be able to see a measurable difference. If there is no change to the sound wave as measured earlier in the thread, how could the sound possibly sound different?
 
 
Where is the logic in saying "It makes something sound different but it is completely unmeasurable"?
 
Can you honestly answer the question using facts (anything that points away from confirmation bias and suggestion)?

 

[jackmccabe]

^Sadly almost all audio equipment is like this, for instance amps and dacs have very few measurable differences yet people are certain there are huge differences.
I have found that practically all dacs and amps above about $100 that are made to be neutral sound exactly the same.
 
Unfortunately most people are unwilling to accept science as they perceive this imaginary difference so strongly that they cannot believe it is not there.
Most audio equipment seems to be an optical/aural illusion that tricks you into hearing differences and improvements that are in fact not actually there.

 

[Hennyo]

 
Quote:

^Sadly almost all audio equipment is like this, for instance amps and dacs have very few measurable differences yet people are certain there are huge differences.
I have found that practically all dacs and amps above about $100 that are made to be neutral sound exactly the same.
 
Unfortunately most people are unwilling to accept science as they perceive this imaginary difference so strongly that they cannot believe it is not there.
Most audio equipment seems to be an optical/aural illusion that tricks you into hearing differences and improvements that are in fact not actually there.

Exactly! ^^ to first part. We all know that there is a difference (often drastic in high end audio equipment and low end euqipment, however drastic can often mean only 5-15% difference in sound quality, But that 5-w/e % can seem like a 30, or enven 40%+ to the sound appreciation and perception of the sound. and it is discernable, it makes it more artful, wider, and pleasing presentation. There are reviews and information on these cables, and each review finds each cable to sound consitantly differently. Unfortunately though, it is all subjective to the listener, and many of these reviews are in German. Personally, I would say that recabling improves the way I enjoy sound by 30%, and that's 30% I do not want to go without. I still A-B my stock cables now and then just for kicks and giggles, reveling in the level of detail intelligent upgrades do yield.
 
On the higher end cables such as the 550$ Diamond or Coffee it better sound better. We would expect it to, or nobody would buy it. Again, in my subjective opinion the Coffee produces the most loving "proffessional monitoring" but still warm detail sound, and when paired with an analytical source you hear everything in your recording. with the 650 it's a sheer winner, and with the grado it bumps my toe tapping to new heights!
 
You cannot unprove or prove it to the average folk. They just have to try it out and see what they think about it. Some may find it's not worth the money, I however, have simply found that it is. And I have scrutinized many a audioshops inventory, gone out of my way, and spent hours to reach my conclusion. (which was actually reached the first time I ever tried aftermarket, which was the Cinnamon (50$) and Forest ($30) usb's. To me the difference is clear as day. It is not placebo, and is a worthwhile to at least try out if you're that skeptical.  I would like this thread to become a "witness thread" where all those who've recabled either their headphones or their source cable share their findings with the word.
 
I cannot post anything more strongly as it will be flamed, so try it or live in darkness never knowing for yourself. That's all there is to it. If you hear the difference, then that's great, but don't give it a flame before at least dipping your toes in the water. And if you have given it a try and didn't appreciate it, come back here and flame me all you want. All I can say is that it seems the only people who flame are people who've never once put their hands on anything besides the stock cable, so how would they really know?!