Cable Cost vs Equipment Cost
- Thread starter TreAdidas
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Febs
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
I could be wrong, but I read Black Stuart's post as being a purely sarcastic comment directed to crescendopower, and not meant to be taken literally.
| Originally Posted by televators /img/forum/go_quote.gif What is this in reference to? This is completely uncalled for. |
I could be wrong, but I read Black Stuart's post as being a purely sarcastic comment directed to crescendopower, and not meant to be taken literally.
Happy Camper
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
Yeah, I took it that way too. BS, care to clarify?
I do not want to waste money for the sake of name recognition or status. We all work hard for our money. If it didn't improve sound enough to drop the money, I would not have done it. Besides, I got a used set from a dealer who was liquidating floor inventory to close a store. There was enough difference in sound from the solar winds to get RDs for the difference.
For the DIYers, I praise your innovative and continued pursuit in better sq. Budget considerations or self satisfaction drive those to try alternate or mimic successful designs. When someone finds a good alternative that saves money, they are paid for their efforts. But how much time and money did it take to find that good alternative? Not the final cost of the project but all the time and money spent on R&D. I don't want to spend time finding a cheaper alternative. I want to listen to my music. So I choose to spend the money instead of the time. Neither is right or wrong. Just a different road to get to the same destination. Those who spend money on their systems instead of designing and building them do not make them stupid, foolish or dumb. To some, their time is worth more than the money saved building their own. If I can make $150-200 an hour in business, I don't want to waste my time building cables unless my passion is making equipment.
The same arguments come up on this topic. Those who have spent the money are fools because those who don't or won't spend it still have money in their pocket. I'm guessing that those who have spent the money on equipment still have money in their pockets too. But they have been listening to the sq they desire longer while those envying that point are still working their way up.
To answer the op ? No, spending more money on a piece of the system that will not have as much of an impact to the sq as the other components is a waste. If I was running a pdp into a portable amp, I wouldn't spend the price of the system for cables. If I spent $5000 on a source and amp, I would consider spending 5-10% on cables if the sq improved. I feel the poll was asked in such a way as to incite an argument which is why I didn't vote.
| Originally Posted by Febs /img/forum/go_quote.gif I could be wrong, but I read Black Stuart's post as being a purely sarcastic comment directed to crescendopower, and not meant to be taken literally. |
Yeah, I took it that way too. BS, care to clarify?
I do not want to waste money for the sake of name recognition or status. We all work hard for our money. If it didn't improve sound enough to drop the money, I would not have done it. Besides, I got a used set from a dealer who was liquidating floor inventory to close a store. There was enough difference in sound from the solar winds to get RDs for the difference.
For the DIYers, I praise your innovative and continued pursuit in better sq. Budget considerations or self satisfaction drive those to try alternate or mimic successful designs. When someone finds a good alternative that saves money, they are paid for their efforts. But how much time and money did it take to find that good alternative? Not the final cost of the project but all the time and money spent on R&D. I don't want to spend time finding a cheaper alternative. I want to listen to my music. So I choose to spend the money instead of the time. Neither is right or wrong. Just a different road to get to the same destination. Those who spend money on their systems instead of designing and building them do not make them stupid, foolish or dumb. To some, their time is worth more than the money saved building their own. If I can make $150-200 an hour in business, I don't want to waste my time building cables unless my passion is making equipment.
The same arguments come up on this topic. Those who have spent the money are fools because those who don't or won't spend it still have money in their pocket. I'm guessing that those who have spent the money on equipment still have money in their pockets too. But they have been listening to the sq they desire longer while those envying that point are still working their way up.
To answer the op ? No, spending more money on a piece of the system that will not have as much of an impact to the sq as the other components is a waste. If I was running a pdp into a portable amp, I wouldn't spend the price of the system for cables. If I spent $5000 on a source and amp, I would consider spending 5-10% on cables if the sq improved. I feel the poll was asked in such a way as to incite an argument which is why I didn't vote.
Black Stuart
MOT: Deep Sound Cables
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Televators,
I find it incredible that you could read my post so completely wrongly.
If you go back to my post of the 12th I held up yours and lowmagnet as rational opinions.
I also mentioned that you had come to an opinion (in this case) about Nordost cables by actual experience, not concepts or theories or other peoples opinions.
It would seem that Happy Camper and I share the same opinion, there are two ways to approach the cables question - either one is valid, now who's going to distort or misread what I have said in this post.
Anyway I'm not going to contribute further, I can't see any point.
I find it incredible that you could read my post so completely wrongly.
If you go back to my post of the 12th I held up yours and lowmagnet as rational opinions.
I also mentioned that you had come to an opinion (in this case) about Nordost cables by actual experience, not concepts or theories or other peoples opinions.
It would seem that Happy Camper and I share the same opinion, there are two ways to approach the cables question - either one is valid, now who's going to distort or misread what I have said in this post.
Anyway I'm not going to contribute further, I can't see any point.
Happy Camper
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
To both, it would be a loss for us if you leave your opinions to yourself. The noobs will continue to see the arguments with little guidance on topic if you do. Especially on such a misunderstanding that I believe you are in agreement on. If not, thank you for your views.
After all, none of us are experts (well maybe some are and some think they are), just passionate fans of the hobby sharing our experiences. Hell, I just get ignored most of the time. I just keep trying.
| Originally Posted by Black Stuart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Televators, I find it incredible that you could read my post so completely wrongly. If you go back to my post of the 12th I held up yours and lowmagnet as rational opinions. I also mentioned that you had come to an opinion (in this case) about Nordost cables by actual experience, not concepts or theories or other peoples opinions. It would seem that Happy Camper and I share the same opinion, there are two ways to approach the cables question - either one is valid, now who's going to distort or misread what I have said in this post. Anyway I'm not going to contribute further, I can't see any point. |
To both, it would be a loss for us if you leave your opinions to yourself. The noobs will continue to see the arguments with little guidance on topic if you do. Especially on such a misunderstanding that I believe you are in agreement on. If not, thank you for your views.
After all, none of us are experts (well maybe some are and some think they are), just passionate fans of the hobby sharing our experiences. Hell, I just get ignored most of the time. I just keep trying.
TreAdidas
100+ Head-Fier
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Quote:
Oh wow... was this someone in the Cincinnati area closing and ridding themselves of audio? Not Lou's place?! Audible Elegance is a nice shop I like those guys. Very nice to work with. Heck I even drove out from Western Hills!
You feel the poll was asked in such a way as to incite argument which is why you did not vote. I assure you that was not my intent even in the slightest. Yes I threw the "you cannot convince me..." tagline for the sake of humor. Just simple yes and no seems dry to me. Regardless I've been laying low as to not be involved in the argument for the sake of argument. That's lame. Value is in the eye of the beholder and I was merely curious as to where that value line was drawn for Head-Fiers so I picked an arbitrary point, the value of either component that is being connected.
At the end of the day kids let's just be cool. It is pretty dope that there is a forum that caters to personal audio enthusiasts. The audio hobby, my number one joy in life, felt like it was for hermits relative to my other and second love of motorcycles. That was until I came upon this place. Keep it chill.
| Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif I do not want to waste money for the sake of name recognition or status. We all work hard for our money. If it didn't improve sound enough to drop the money, I would not have done it. Besides, I got a used set from a dealer who was liquidating floor inventory to close a store. There was enough difference in sound from the solar winds to get RDs for the difference. I feel the poll was asked in such a way as to incite an argument which is why I didn't vote. |
Oh wow... was this someone in the Cincinnati area closing and ridding themselves of audio? Not Lou's place?! Audible Elegance is a nice shop I like those guys. Very nice to work with. Heck I even drove out from Western Hills!
You feel the poll was asked in such a way as to incite argument which is why you did not vote. I assure you that was not my intent even in the slightest. Yes I threw the "you cannot convince me..." tagline for the sake of humor. Just simple yes and no seems dry to me. Regardless I've been laying low as to not be involved in the argument for the sake of argument. That's lame. Value is in the eye of the beholder and I was merely curious as to where that value line was drawn for Head-Fiers so I picked an arbitrary point, the value of either component that is being connected.
At the end of the day kids let's just be cool. It is pretty dope that there is a forum that caters to personal audio enthusiasts. The audio hobby, my number one joy in life, felt like it was for hermits relative to my other and second love of motorcycles. That was until I came upon this place. Keep it chill.
tourmaline
Headphoneus Supremus
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Patrick;
tara labs the zero: holy moly....22.000 euro's for 06. meter pair!
If you think Nordost is expensive..............
Second hand that thing would still set you back an easy 10 grand or something.
tara labs the zero: holy moly....22.000 euro's for 06. meter pair!
If you think Nordost is expensive..............
Second hand that thing would still set you back an easy 10 grand or something.
Patrick82
Banned
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Quote:
I don't like to pay $10 000+ just for the Zero connectors, I have hardwired my Valhallas instead.
Which is better? Vacuum dielectric + connectors, or Air dielectric + hardwired?
http://www.stereophile.com/cables/1206tara/index1.html
Quote:
| Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Patrick; tara labs the zero: holy moly....22.000 euro's for 06. meter pair! If you think Nordost is expensive..............
Second hand that thing would still set you back an easy 10 grand or something. |
I don't like to pay $10 000+ just for the Zero connectors, I have hardwired my Valhallas instead.
Which is better? Vacuum dielectric + connectors, or Air dielectric + hardwired?
http://www.stereophile.com/cables/1206tara/index1.html
Quote:
| Matthew Bond claims that each mil-spec RCA plug costs him $473.50. Times four equals $1894. That's his cost just for the plugs for a pair of Zero cables. With the average high-end audio retail markup being fivefold, you're talking close to $10,000 just for the plugs. |
Thelonious Monk
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
so, what factors, other than price, do you use to separate the good from the crap? would you consider rsaavedra's cable crap?
| Originally Posted by Black Stuart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Should you spend more on cables than equipment - I think the answer to that is, crap cables will never allow you to hear what your equipment is capable of but I cannot support spending more on them than equipment. |
so, what factors, other than price, do you use to separate the good from the crap? would you consider rsaavedra's cable crap?
Happy Camper
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
I mis-spoke. The ? is fair. I meant the choices are a bit baited. Not intentionally perhaps and I am not accusing of any malicious intent. This is a sensitive topic as seen by the number of closed threads ot. It brings out passion from both sides. Thanks for a level head and not taking comments personally. It is great to have such a forum as this. I feel there are higher than normal education and income levels here & makes for great discussions amongst successful types.
Lou has been a very good source and a good aquaintance. I have invested in his business since I moved here in 89. He actually sold me on better speaker cable, ICs and treatments after taking the time to come to my house to evaluate the environment my HT system was going in. They set it up and calibrated the room. AE north is still there (next to M. Inn Ribs). Lou opened a store in Erlanger about 5 yrs ago. The internet just kills the speciality stores. I still buy from them as they do me right. The few $ extra allow for listening and touching gear. Not too many stores will let you take $K worth of cables home to try for yourself. He felt he made enough on me to allow some freedom.
| Originally Posted by TreAdidas /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh wow... was this someone in the Cincinnati area closing and ridding themselves of audio? Not Lou's place?! Audible Elegance is a nice shop I like those guys. Very nice to work with. Heck I even drove out from Western Hills! You feel the poll was asked in such a way as to incite argument which is why you did not vote. I assure you that was not my intent even in the slightest. Yes I threw the "you cannot convince me..." tagline for the sake of humor. Just simple yes and no seems dry to me. Regardless I've been laying low as to not be involved in the argument for the sake of argument. That's lame. Value is in the eye of the beholder and I was merely curious as to where that value line was drawn for Head-Fiers so I picked an arbitrary point, the value of either component that is being connected. At the end of the day kids let's just be cool. It is pretty dope that there is a forum that caters to personal audio enthusiasts. The audio hobby, my number one joy in life, felt like it was for hermits relative to my other and second love of motorcycles. That was until I came upon this place. Keep it chill.
|
I mis-spoke. The ? is fair. I meant the choices are a bit baited. Not intentionally perhaps and I am not accusing of any malicious intent. This is a sensitive topic as seen by the number of closed threads ot. It brings out passion from both sides. Thanks for a level head and not taking comments personally. It is great to have such a forum as this. I feel there are higher than normal education and income levels here & makes for great discussions amongst successful types.
Lou has been a very good source and a good aquaintance. I have invested in his business since I moved here in 89. He actually sold me on better speaker cable, ICs and treatments after taking the time to come to my house to evaluate the environment my HT system was going in. They set it up and calibrated the room. AE north is still there (next to M. Inn Ribs). Lou opened a store in Erlanger about 5 yrs ago. The internet just kills the speciality stores. I still buy from them as they do me right. The few $ extra allow for listening and touching gear. Not too many stores will let you take $K worth of cables home to try for yourself. He felt he made enough on me to allow some freedom.
rsaavedra
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
Yes thank god for you. Imagine how much good trutfhful sound you would be missing if listening to mine!
Thank god also for you, all the cables used in all recording studios and in live venues are not like mine, but made with fancy materials, fancy insulators, fancy geometries, and end up being really very expensive.
So if you do use better speaker cables, you can really appreciate the true sound in the recording.
| Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank god.
|
Yes thank god for you. Imagine how much good trutfhful sound you would be missing if listening to mine!
tourmaline
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
Thank god you know it al, just after listening to 3 cables!
| Originally Posted by rsaavedra /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes thank god for you. Imagine how much good trutfhful sound you would be missing if listening to mine!
|
Thank god you know it al, just after listening to 3 cables!
tourmaline
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
What's so special about those connectors? I think the silver eichmanns or any good silverplated or pure sliver plug is not that far off of the 500 dollar plug.
No wonder the army costs soo much, using 500 dollar plugs for general use!!!
| Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't like to pay $10 000+ just for the Zero connectors, I have hardwired my Valhallas instead. Which is better? Vacuum dielectric + connectors, or Air dielectric + hardwired? http://www.stereophile.com/cables/1206tara/index1.html |
What's so special about those connectors? I think the silver eichmanns or any good silverplated or pure sliver plug is not that far off of the 500 dollar plug.
No wonder the army costs soo much, using 500 dollar plugs for general use!!!
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