Does Burson still give out free opamp samples?
Burson V7 Classic Pro and V7 Vivid Pro - Hi-Fi audiophile solid-state op-amps
- Thread starter raoultrifan
- Start date
aro
New Head-Fier
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2009
- Posts
- 29
- Likes
- 18
Yes, if You pay for them.
greyforest
500+ Head-Fier
Did some comparisons between v7v and 2590on s pair of timekeeper 3x, it only have input buffer stage for opamp swipe.
2590 is still better at resolution and details. It probably have a slightly larger soundstages. But v7v does have better frontal depth and stereo image, and slightly more mild presentations. 2590 is bit harsh on certain tracks. Overall 2590 is more hi-fi tuned to my ears, but it doesn't mean it's better for evry system.
2590 is still better at resolution and details. It probably have a slightly larger soundstages. But v7v does have better frontal depth and stereo image, and slightly more mild presentations. 2590 is bit harsh on certain tracks. Overall 2590 is more hi-fi tuned to my ears, but it doesn't mean it's better for evry system.
aro
New Head-Fier
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2009
- Posts
- 29
- Likes
- 18
Now that is what I was waiting for. Thank You.
I retested V7 Vivid vs other op amps recently. I did this out of curiosity because I improved the power delivery for my USB and Coax inputs, which had a surprisingly large impact on the quality of the sound. Long story short, V7 Vivid is easily my favorite op amp of the ones I own, even more so now that I’ve improved the rest of my signal chain.
My use case is in the input stage of a Purifi Class D amp. I’m using an Audio-GD DI-20, going via I2S to Audio-GD R8 Mk2, then connected to SPL Phonitor X acting as pre-amp to the Purifi amplifier. My speakers are B&W CM8 that I’ve modified with Twaron Angel Hair damping material, both inside the cabinet and for the material inside the nautilus tweeter horn. This has a profound effect on the sound of these speakers. Beside this I’ve also used plenty of Dynamat Xtreme on the speaker driver baskets and on & around the tweeter housing. This also cleaned up the sound of the speaker at louder volumes. I also use a Velodyne SPL-1000 Ultra subwoofer, also with modified damping material which I swapped to Twaron Unicorn Hair with positive results. I have room treatments, and I’ve spent significant time optimizing speaker placements for best sound, and not for living room aesthetics. The system is pretty impressive IMO for what it is, which is older midrange models. I’ve had newer speakers in this room like Kef LS 50 Meta and Monitor Audio Bronze 500, and they lost against the modified CM8.
For USB I use a desktop PC with a Matrix Element H USB card. I swapped the power supply from an iFi iPower X to iPower Elite. Coax is used for PS5, which is first transmitted over HDMI to a Samsung TV which outputs SPDIF via toslink, and then to coax via an iFi SPDIF iPurifier. By itself the SPDIF iPurifier meaningfully improves the sound of the Samsung TV sound output. Swapping power supply further improves it, sharpening the sound and unveiling more detail. Here I also upgraded from iPower X to iPower Elite. A relatively costly upgrade, but it made a noticeable and worthwhile impact on the quality of the sound, especially using V7 Vivid. The effect of upgrading power supplies was like unveiling the sound, sharpening everything (in a good sense), making layers more distinct, and also making the sound cleaner and nicer to listen to. Basically, the inherent character of the sound was enhanced in every way because it seems the signal is now transmitted with better integrity. With the TV I also use a couple of the newly released iFi HDMI iSilencers. Their effect is to add more density to the sound, which is surprisingly noticeable. But I’ve only had them for a few days, so I can’t add much more than that to the description. They have a noticeable effect on the sound, no effect on the video quality, and don’t add any input lag as far as I can tell. Worth considering if you’re using HDMI audio.
I have now used the V7 Vivid for a few months, so I have more clear perspective on exactly how they sound and their effect on the signal. The other op amps I tested in the past couple weeks were OPA1611, OPA828, Alfa Rpar AS-402, AD797BRZ, MUSES01 and MUSES03. Not every op amp made the power supply upgrade noticeable.
V7 Vivid shares one key character traits of V6 Vivid, which is the size of the sound stage. It gives the impression that you’ve taken a step toward the music. Going back and forth comparing op amps makes this trait obvious and unique, as no others sound like this. The center image is larger, sounds to the far left and right seem further away, and out of phase sounds seem to wrap around you a bit more. It’s a very nice enhancement to the sound, and I don’t think it comes with any downsides. You just get a more immersive sound. I don’t know if this enhanced size has something to do with the relatively gentle attack and more airy sound character. I want to emphasize “relatively”, because most of the time with most material there is nothing wrong with the sound. It’s very coherent and enjoyable in its own way, with nothing missing. It’s just on some days I feel a frustration building from the lack of attack, and then I install MUSES03 and get what I’m missing. But MUSES03 also introduces its own problems that the V7 Vivid don’t have, so I eventually always come back to V7 Vivid as my default. On balance, V7 Vivid is my favorite for most things every day. The tone of the sound is the best, with voices sounding the most human and believable. The sound stage is huge and immersive, and the detailing and sense of transparency is remarkable. Most importantly, it reliably communicates the feel of the music in a satisfying manner. It does the best job for the broadest range of material, whereas other op amps can sometimes do certain specific things better.
I hadn’t heard OPA1611 in a long time, so I was pleasantly surprised by how pleasant they sound, although they also have critical flaws that ensure I’ll never use them again. The best thing about OPA1611 is the lack of obvious flaws, as the tone feels right, the detailing is impressive. Sounds feel like they’re carved in the air with sharp outlines against a pure black background. At first it feels like the sound is perfect. But once the positive first impressions subside, I noticed problems. Even though the op amp at first seems like it has infinite resolution, it has clear artifacts, like a strange smoothing effect on singing voices and certain complex instrumental passages. The op amp sounds best with synthetic instrumentals. But any natural recordings full of subtle vibrations either in instruments or vocals are destroyed. These are the most glaring artefacts. But the real deal breaker is the feeling that all sounds are veiled compared to V7 Vivid. With V7 Vivid it feels like you’re hearing the performance project directly at you, whereas OPA1611 adds a barrier of artifice. One of the tests I did was to watch walking videos on youtube, and there it was obvious OPA1611 flattens the soundstage. V7 Vivid was much better at reproducing believable scale and distance in things such as traffic, pedestrian crossing noises, and so on. With V7 Vivid you got 3d sound, whereas OPA1611 dramatically flattened the sound. If I had spent more time with OPA1611 I would probably have noticed this more clearly in music as well, but I don’t do these tests for any professional reason, just my own amusement, so once I tired of OPA1611 I removed them.
OPA828, AD797BRZ and MUSES03 have a more 3d sound than OPA1611. None of them are as benign and inoffensive as OPA1611, as they tilt the sound in possibly unnatural ways. Both OPA828 and MUSES03 feel like they modify the timbre of voices upwards a bit. It’s subtle, but clear. V7 Vivid has easily the most natural and full-bodied vocal sound compared to any of these. But unlike OPA1611 both OPA828 and MUSES03 feel like they bring you closer to the music, not feeling anywhere near as veiled or fake. MUSES03 is the absolute best at piano jazz ensembles, as it feels like they were specifically made to reproduce audiophile style music as impressively as possible. The way piano decays hang in the air and catch your ear is unsurpassed, even by V7 Vivid. Pianos are never as enjoyable as when played by MUSES03 in my system, no matter how great V7 Vivid sounds in other contexts.
AD797BRZ I keep testing because like OPA1611 it’s benign and natural in tone. Something about it feels about right, but with my most recent round of testing the potential of the sound is severely limited by using it. After the power supply upgrades the sound hardly improved with AD797BRZ, whereas V7 Vivid, OPA828 and MUSES03 all enjoyed a very obvious step upward in quality and enjoyment factor. They allowed the sound to scale up, whereas AD797BRZ held it back. I think it’s basically pointless to consider using it. I guess I should also mention the Alfa Rpar AS-402 as I tried it again. It’s fine, but unimpressive. I think compared against OPA1611 it’s a sidegrade. It substitutes the smooth veil of the OPA1611 for a different sharper and crunchier style of veil. Maybe it would sound better if I burned it in more, but I find nothing particularly appealing about this op amp. It’s inoffensive, but boring. I’ve yet to find music or material where it stands out compared to the other op amps. Maybe it’s unsuited for my use case, but I think it’s uncompetitive against OPA828, MUSES03, V7 Vivid, or even SS3602. I haven’t tried the SS3602 in a long while now, and not since I upgraded my power supplies. But from memory it has much more character and unique strengths, whereas AS-402 are unremarkable in every way.
One unexpected improvement is that I now for the first time enjoy using the NOS mode (non-oversampling) on my dac. I have tried disabling oversampling several times during my ownership of the dac, but I always return to the oversampling 8x mode (which is the default), because it always made the sound better. But now with improved signal quality, the NOS mode sounds genuinely great in its own way, because in some recordings voices sound distinctly better, revealing even more subtle vibrations, making it feel more realistic. With most music I still prefer oversampling enabled, because it enhances dynamic contrasts, giving much clearer outlines around sounds, making the sound punchier and more powerful. But for the first time I now see NOS mode as a viable alternative, which it was never before. Before the power supply upgrades NOS was always worse than oversampling, but now there are cases where it always wins when I do comparisons. I found this fascinating and it changes how I think about sound reproduction a bit. The technology and techniques don’t matter as much as the quality of the execution.
My use case is in the input stage of a Purifi Class D amp. I’m using an Audio-GD DI-20, going via I2S to Audio-GD R8 Mk2, then connected to SPL Phonitor X acting as pre-amp to the Purifi amplifier. My speakers are B&W CM8 that I’ve modified with Twaron Angel Hair damping material, both inside the cabinet and for the material inside the nautilus tweeter horn. This has a profound effect on the sound of these speakers. Beside this I’ve also used plenty of Dynamat Xtreme on the speaker driver baskets and on & around the tweeter housing. This also cleaned up the sound of the speaker at louder volumes. I also use a Velodyne SPL-1000 Ultra subwoofer, also with modified damping material which I swapped to Twaron Unicorn Hair with positive results. I have room treatments, and I’ve spent significant time optimizing speaker placements for best sound, and not for living room aesthetics. The system is pretty impressive IMO for what it is, which is older midrange models. I’ve had newer speakers in this room like Kef LS 50 Meta and Monitor Audio Bronze 500, and they lost against the modified CM8.
For USB I use a desktop PC with a Matrix Element H USB card. I swapped the power supply from an iFi iPower X to iPower Elite. Coax is used for PS5, which is first transmitted over HDMI to a Samsung TV which outputs SPDIF via toslink, and then to coax via an iFi SPDIF iPurifier. By itself the SPDIF iPurifier meaningfully improves the sound of the Samsung TV sound output. Swapping power supply further improves it, sharpening the sound and unveiling more detail. Here I also upgraded from iPower X to iPower Elite. A relatively costly upgrade, but it made a noticeable and worthwhile impact on the quality of the sound, especially using V7 Vivid. The effect of upgrading power supplies was like unveiling the sound, sharpening everything (in a good sense), making layers more distinct, and also making the sound cleaner and nicer to listen to. Basically, the inherent character of the sound was enhanced in every way because it seems the signal is now transmitted with better integrity. With the TV I also use a couple of the newly released iFi HDMI iSilencers. Their effect is to add more density to the sound, which is surprisingly noticeable. But I’ve only had them for a few days, so I can’t add much more than that to the description. They have a noticeable effect on the sound, no effect on the video quality, and don’t add any input lag as far as I can tell. Worth considering if you’re using HDMI audio.
I have now used the V7 Vivid for a few months, so I have more clear perspective on exactly how they sound and their effect on the signal. The other op amps I tested in the past couple weeks were OPA1611, OPA828, Alfa Rpar AS-402, AD797BRZ, MUSES01 and MUSES03. Not every op amp made the power supply upgrade noticeable.
V7 Vivid shares one key character traits of V6 Vivid, which is the size of the sound stage. It gives the impression that you’ve taken a step toward the music. Going back and forth comparing op amps makes this trait obvious and unique, as no others sound like this. The center image is larger, sounds to the far left and right seem further away, and out of phase sounds seem to wrap around you a bit more. It’s a very nice enhancement to the sound, and I don’t think it comes with any downsides. You just get a more immersive sound. I don’t know if this enhanced size has something to do with the relatively gentle attack and more airy sound character. I want to emphasize “relatively”, because most of the time with most material there is nothing wrong with the sound. It’s very coherent and enjoyable in its own way, with nothing missing. It’s just on some days I feel a frustration building from the lack of attack, and then I install MUSES03 and get what I’m missing. But MUSES03 also introduces its own problems that the V7 Vivid don’t have, so I eventually always come back to V7 Vivid as my default. On balance, V7 Vivid is my favorite for most things every day. The tone of the sound is the best, with voices sounding the most human and believable. The sound stage is huge and immersive, and the detailing and sense of transparency is remarkable. Most importantly, it reliably communicates the feel of the music in a satisfying manner. It does the best job for the broadest range of material, whereas other op amps can sometimes do certain specific things better.
I hadn’t heard OPA1611 in a long time, so I was pleasantly surprised by how pleasant they sound, although they also have critical flaws that ensure I’ll never use them again. The best thing about OPA1611 is the lack of obvious flaws, as the tone feels right, the detailing is impressive. Sounds feel like they’re carved in the air with sharp outlines against a pure black background. At first it feels like the sound is perfect. But once the positive first impressions subside, I noticed problems. Even though the op amp at first seems like it has infinite resolution, it has clear artifacts, like a strange smoothing effect on singing voices and certain complex instrumental passages. The op amp sounds best with synthetic instrumentals. But any natural recordings full of subtle vibrations either in instruments or vocals are destroyed. These are the most glaring artefacts. But the real deal breaker is the feeling that all sounds are veiled compared to V7 Vivid. With V7 Vivid it feels like you’re hearing the performance project directly at you, whereas OPA1611 adds a barrier of artifice. One of the tests I did was to watch walking videos on youtube, and there it was obvious OPA1611 flattens the soundstage. V7 Vivid was much better at reproducing believable scale and distance in things such as traffic, pedestrian crossing noises, and so on. With V7 Vivid you got 3d sound, whereas OPA1611 dramatically flattened the sound. If I had spent more time with OPA1611 I would probably have noticed this more clearly in music as well, but I don’t do these tests for any professional reason, just my own amusement, so once I tired of OPA1611 I removed them.
OPA828, AD797BRZ and MUSES03 have a more 3d sound than OPA1611. None of them are as benign and inoffensive as OPA1611, as they tilt the sound in possibly unnatural ways. Both OPA828 and MUSES03 feel like they modify the timbre of voices upwards a bit. It’s subtle, but clear. V7 Vivid has easily the most natural and full-bodied vocal sound compared to any of these. But unlike OPA1611 both OPA828 and MUSES03 feel like they bring you closer to the music, not feeling anywhere near as veiled or fake. MUSES03 is the absolute best at piano jazz ensembles, as it feels like they were specifically made to reproduce audiophile style music as impressively as possible. The way piano decays hang in the air and catch your ear is unsurpassed, even by V7 Vivid. Pianos are never as enjoyable as when played by MUSES03 in my system, no matter how great V7 Vivid sounds in other contexts.
AD797BRZ I keep testing because like OPA1611 it’s benign and natural in tone. Something about it feels about right, but with my most recent round of testing the potential of the sound is severely limited by using it. After the power supply upgrades the sound hardly improved with AD797BRZ, whereas V7 Vivid, OPA828 and MUSES03 all enjoyed a very obvious step upward in quality and enjoyment factor. They allowed the sound to scale up, whereas AD797BRZ held it back. I think it’s basically pointless to consider using it. I guess I should also mention the Alfa Rpar AS-402 as I tried it again. It’s fine, but unimpressive. I think compared against OPA1611 it’s a sidegrade. It substitutes the smooth veil of the OPA1611 for a different sharper and crunchier style of veil. Maybe it would sound better if I burned it in more, but I find nothing particularly appealing about this op amp. It’s inoffensive, but boring. I’ve yet to find music or material where it stands out compared to the other op amps. Maybe it’s unsuited for my use case, but I think it’s uncompetitive against OPA828, MUSES03, V7 Vivid, or even SS3602. I haven’t tried the SS3602 in a long while now, and not since I upgraded my power supplies. But from memory it has much more character and unique strengths, whereas AS-402 are unremarkable in every way.
One unexpected improvement is that I now for the first time enjoy using the NOS mode (non-oversampling) on my dac. I have tried disabling oversampling several times during my ownership of the dac, but I always return to the oversampling 8x mode (which is the default), because it always made the sound better. But now with improved signal quality, the NOS mode sounds genuinely great in its own way, because in some recordings voices sound distinctly better, revealing even more subtle vibrations, making it feel more realistic. With most music I still prefer oversampling enabled, because it enhances dynamic contrasts, giving much clearer outlines around sounds, making the sound punchier and more powerful. But for the first time I now see NOS mode as a viable alternative, which it was never before. Before the power supply upgrades NOS was always worse than oversampling, but now there are cases where it always wins when I do comparisons. I found this fascinating and it changes how I think about sound reproduction a bit. The technology and techniques don’t matter as much as the quality of the execution.
Last edited:
Remusz911
100+ Head-Fier
Could you compare the V7 Vivid to the V6 Vivid?
If you still have the V6 Vivid.
Yes, I still have them. I'm curious to hear them again, so I will install them later today and post impressions.
I have now compared V6 Vivid vs V7 Vivid. I tried to do it properly, so I prepared demo material of various genres and listened with the V7 Vivid first, then switching to V6 Vivid and testing the same music again. V7 Vivid is essentially a higher fidelity version of V6 Vivid, in some ways sounding very similar.
Their soundstage size is exactly the same. Unlike the chip amps I listened to recently, V6 Vivid doesn’t sound veiled or like there is a barrier between you and the music. Instead, it’s like all the music was recorded and performed with slightly worse microphones and speakers. They still convey a sense of realism, but with extra distortion. Sibilants are more prominent with V6 Vivid, and pianos can have flinch inducing glare that’s completely absent with V7 Vivid. A positive thing about V6 Vivid is their firmness and bass. Whereas V7 Vivid can feel a bit gentle at times, V6 Vivid are really good at emphasizing physicality in drums, guitar distortions, and so on. If all you listen to is metal and EDM, then V6 Vivid are great. But anything more nuanced like a person singing, unamplified instruments like pianos, then V7 Vivid deliver far more nuance in every way. V7 Vivid unlock several extra layers of reverb and effects in the midrange and top end. If someone sings loudly with V6 Vivid they can project the sheer physical force of the voice better than V7 Vivid. V7 Vivid instead project the emotion of the singing better. Somehow both sound just as “realistic” in how the energy is projected, but the emotional effect on the listener is different. V6 Vivid is more shouty, whereas V7 Vivid makes voices sound more human.
In many ways V6 Vivid was a pleasant surprise, because I think their sound is far more enjoyable than OPA1611. Just like V7 Vivid the sound feels authentic and raw, without a feeling of having a veil or fakeness. Basically, when I listen to live music and close my eyes, my brain is convinced by the soundstage illusion, just like with V7 Vivid. That’s where I hear a clear lineage in sound and intent between the op amps. V7 Vivid is the same, but better. I think they’re a huge improvement over V6 Vivid, because they make more genres of music fun to listen to. The only thing they’ve lost is the ability to elevate more simple and humble music whose only intent is to sound badass or hype.
Their soundstage size is exactly the same. Unlike the chip amps I listened to recently, V6 Vivid doesn’t sound veiled or like there is a barrier between you and the music. Instead, it’s like all the music was recorded and performed with slightly worse microphones and speakers. They still convey a sense of realism, but with extra distortion. Sibilants are more prominent with V6 Vivid, and pianos can have flinch inducing glare that’s completely absent with V7 Vivid. A positive thing about V6 Vivid is their firmness and bass. Whereas V7 Vivid can feel a bit gentle at times, V6 Vivid are really good at emphasizing physicality in drums, guitar distortions, and so on. If all you listen to is metal and EDM, then V6 Vivid are great. But anything more nuanced like a person singing, unamplified instruments like pianos, then V7 Vivid deliver far more nuance in every way. V7 Vivid unlock several extra layers of reverb and effects in the midrange and top end. If someone sings loudly with V6 Vivid they can project the sheer physical force of the voice better than V7 Vivid. V7 Vivid instead project the emotion of the singing better. Somehow both sound just as “realistic” in how the energy is projected, but the emotional effect on the listener is different. V6 Vivid is more shouty, whereas V7 Vivid makes voices sound more human.
In many ways V6 Vivid was a pleasant surprise, because I think their sound is far more enjoyable than OPA1611. Just like V7 Vivid the sound feels authentic and raw, without a feeling of having a veil or fakeness. Basically, when I listen to live music and close my eyes, my brain is convinced by the soundstage illusion, just like with V7 Vivid. That’s where I hear a clear lineage in sound and intent between the op amps. V7 Vivid is the same, but better. I think they’re a huge improvement over V6 Vivid, because they make more genres of music fun to listen to. The only thing they’ve lost is the ability to elevate more simple and humble music whose only intent is to sound badass or hype.
Last edited:
RONJA MESCO
1000+ Head-Fier
to me,the treble sizzle is slightly less on the Sparkos....where the V7 is more pronounced by a tad...of which you gotta EQ out. Now mind you, its not on every track for me, but any track with high energy the V7 takes you to the peak of the treble often. The Sparkos is more laid back from hitting that peak--tho its close. I can tell there is an arms race between Sparkos and Burson with these because, to me, theyre tuned similarly.
To add to this, I have a V6 vivid that is more laid back and ever so slightly pitched a bit lower, drier than the 3602 and V7 vivid. You can tell the evolution of those two in SQ over that of the V6 vivid. Though the V6 vivid blows something like the Burson v5i out the water, which to me is a more neutral op-amp across the board.
Last edited:
I also compared SS3602 vs V7 Vivid recently and I agree that this is one of the clearest differences when you do back to back comparisons. SS3602 is more leaned back and can feel withdrawn, whereas V7 Vivid is more of a lean forward type of presentation. I vastly prefer the V7 Vivid sound, because SS3602 is simply too leaned back in my opinion. In a lot of material that's no issue, but with close mic recordings, intense cymbal crashes, or similar, the SS3602 don't do the material justice. The sense of realism I feel with V7 Vivid just isn't there with SS3602. SS3602 are still very good, as they are cleaner and more composed than V6 Vivid. But in comparison with V7 Vivid they feel like a too safe and "standard" type of presentation. Compared to burr brown chip op amps like say OPA1611 and OPA828 the SS3602 improve the sound by adding more air and depth to the recordings. But apart from that they don't impress in the same way as V7 Vivid, which at least in my system takes the sound to another level.
I agree with all of that, although my op-amp swapping is in my DAC. In the end, my favorite is the Sparkos SS2509. It may not fit in many devices, because it is huge in comparison to the Bursons. I can only fit it onto my single-ended output, which is fine because that’s the one I use (with a tube amp that has no balanced inputs). Between it and the V7V will come down to personal preference, as the V7V is still the livelier, more treble-forward of the two. The SS2590 beats it on clarity, resolution and balance. It may have a more fullsome bass as well, but I suspect it only sounds that way due to the tamed treble compared to the 7V….bass out put may be very similar. Both are steps up from the V6V and the SS3602.
sawindra
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2009
- Posts
- 404
- Likes
- 227
I'm also unsure about the bass of V7 Vivid, ie if it's strong enough or whether it's just a hair too light. It's certainly less punchy than my other op amps, but the ones I'm comparing to are also worse in every other respect, meaning they're not as fast or detailed anywhere in the frequency band as V7 Vivid. In the midrange V7 Vivid have extraordinary dynamic range, which I noted when I recently listened to a recording of Swan Lake. A lot of classical music can have jump-scare type orchestral attacks, maybe to wake up the audience after a more delicate passage. I listened to the same passage with V7 Vivid vs MUSES03, and it was like MUSES03 removed half the dynamic range during the most extreme volume swings. The advantage of V7 Vivid was simply massive in classical music. I have also noticed in jazz that V7 Vivid give drum lines more forward attack and dynamism. This makes me wonder what's going on in the lower bass, because it's very detailed and fast, but sometimes not as satisfyingly full as other op amps. It's only by a very narrow margin though. If I put my dac in non-oversampling mode it seems to fill out the bass and balances out the sound nicely. Therefore I think it's a case of synergy. If the bass feels too light, it might be possible to fix it by changing something else in the setup.
Last edited:
Users who are viewing this thread
