[xnor]

Sorry Iniamyen, but to be honest: that's nonsense. That has nothing to do with burn-in.
Yes, manufacturers use same drivers for different models, but driver systems (as beyerdynamic calls 'em) or dampening material or earcups are different. Even if the changes are small the resulting differences can be quite big.

 

[scompton]

I have read here of manufacturers recommending some amount of burn in, although not the hundreds of hours that some people recommend. I've never personally seen an instruction book that recommends it, but I've bought most of my headphones used.


Proving a positive, that burn in happens, should be much easier than proven the negative, that it doesn't happen.

If someone can show measurements that it happened one time, than the anecdotal claims that can easily be passed off as psychological. However, providing measurements that burn in didn't happen with one headphone, won't prove anything. It could be claimed that the burn in wasn't conducted properly, or that particular headphone didn't need it.

If there really is a true night and day difference with 400 hours of burn in on a K701, it should be pretty easy to measure. If it's a subtle difference, I doubt anyone can really remember how it differed subtly 1 or 2 weeks before.

Just to give my anecdote, not that it proves anything, I bought an NOS MB Quart QP 85, that had been sitting around, sealed in it's box for 20 years. I never noticed a difference in it from the first time I used it to after it had hundreds of hours on it.

 

[TheBigCW]

I know at the very least Red Wine Audio recommends burn-in for their customers (Isabellina HPA impressions thread for evidence) but they aren't a headphone manufacturer.

 

[spinali]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have read here of manufacturers recommending some amount of burn in, although not the hundreds of hours that some people recommend. I've never personally seen an instruction book that recommends it, but I've bought most of my headphones used. Proving a positive, that burn in happens, should be much easier than proven the negative, that it doesn't happen. If someone can show measurements that it happened one time, than the anecdotal claims that can easily be passed off as psychological. However, providing measurements that burn in didn't happen with one headphone, won't prove anything. It could be claimed that the burn in wasn't conducted properly, or that particular headphone didn't need it. If there really is a true night and day difference with 400 hours of burn in on a K701, it should be pretty easy to measure. If it's a subtle difference, I doubt anyone can really remember how it differed subtly 1 or 2 weeks before. Just to give my anecdote, not that it proves anything, I bought an NOS MB Quart QP 85, that had been sitting around, sealed in it's box for 20 years. I never noticed a difference in it from the first time I used it to after it had hundreds of hours on it.

I'm afraid you're probably right about this.

Put another way, if someone were to come up with a good DBT with several different headphones, a critic could say that the drivers were from different batches, or that the results are not significant because they don't rise to the <.05 level, or because another experiment needs to validate the results.

As I say in the blog at the bottom of this pane, non-believers claim they haven't experienced break-in, and believers are certain they have. I'm not uncomfortable with the idea of break-in, but it's hard to imagine it will ever be proven or disproven to everyone's satisfaction.

 

[Iniamyen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry Iniamyen, but to be honest: that's nonsense. That has nothing to do with burn-in. Yes, manufacturers use same drivers for different models, but driver systems (as beyerdynamic calls 'em) or dampening material or earcups are different. Even if the changes are small the resulting differences can be quite big.

I wasn't trying to imply that the differences in different models using the same drivers were from burn-in. I was just saying that there is a certain amount of "usage" that occurs at the factory before they are shipped. Depending on this amount (is it zero? Is it small? Is it big?), the "burn-in" may have already occurred.

This amount of usage may differ for different manufacturers or models.

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iniamyen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wasn't trying to imply that the differences in different models using the same drivers were from burn-in. I was just saying that there is a certain amount of "usage" that occurs at the factory before they are shipped. Depending on this amount (is it zero? Is it small? Is it big?), the "burn-in" may have already occurred. This amount of usage may differ for different manufacturers or models.

Oh I see, that is possible.

 

[scompton]

Especially if all that is needed is an hour or so.

 

[Stereo_Sanchez]

I use a stereophile CD with burn-in track and just play it on repeat on my CD player. Hassle free, allows you to judge for yourself the end results subjectively.

 

[Sovkiller]

Burn in has two components, the one that carry more weight IMO, is the human factor, in which the listener "get adjusted" to the new presentation or new sound, that is very personal and depends on how far the new presentation was from the one you were used to. SO I always reco to wait for the miraculous burn in in headphones with the headphones on your head rather than hanging around in a nail on the wall. The other very subtle is the one that actually occurs in the drivers loosen it up while you use them, that one usually occurs in the first hours of use, according to some authorities and driver manufacturers, for example people at Axiom Audio do not believe too much in burn in of drivers....but what do we know for sure?

I can assure you after owning several pairs of headphone (and with pairs I mean one new and one used of the same type) CD3K, HD600, HD580, PROlines, Edition 9, etc...that the differences between one brand new and one used are not that big...once you get used to the sound you realized that...at least that have been my latest experience...

That will raise another question, is the burn in reversible, that means, in the even that we do not use the drivers for long time, could they be "un-burned"???

The one that people refuses the most (including me) is the solid state parts burn in, caps burn in, resistors burn in, transistors burn in, chips, DAC's, cables, etc....

 

[SgtPepper]

I'd like to meet the guy who can actually remember what his headphones sounded like 200, 100, or even 50 hours ago. In my opinion, there is a distinction between emotional memory and aural memory in the case of burn-in. It's a lot easier to remember how you felt the first time you plugged in your headphones than it is to actually remember what you were hearing accurately enough for comparison. In other words, you are only remembering that you were dissatisfied with a certain sonic characteristic upon first listen, but the fact that it no longer bothers you doesn't mean the headphones have physically changed.