Building my own Personal Computer: hyperlinks anyone?

[Stephonovich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu I want to ask you and anyone else some questions: 1. For up to $350 USD, who are the top 5 flat screen monitor manufacturers? 2. What's the difference between 64bit versus 32bit chips and software? 3. What are the benefits of a dual-core CPU especially with regard to Linux?

1. NEC, Acer, LG, BenQ, and Viewsonic. Viewsonic is on the high end, while the others are pretty much all equal. These, BTW, are referring to LCDs.
2. ArsTechnica runs it down pretty well. The basic advantages are that it handles data in 64-bit chunks instead of 32. This means pretty much diddly squat for most applications, as they don't need that extra performance. However, things dealing with large files (databases, video editing, perhaps even DVD ripping) wll benefit from it. 64 bit software has been designed to take advantage of 64 bit CPUs, and as such, runs a bit quicker. There's a beta version of Windows 64 bit, and there's been Linux for 64 bit out for quite some time now. Upgrading to a 64 bit setup would likely run you about $100-$150 more for the mobo and CPU.
3. Dual core essentially means two CPUs on one chip. Like SMP, except easier to use. In theory, it'd run twice as fast. Or rather, for programs that are able to make use of parallel processing. Never tried it (it's not out yet anyway), so I really can't comment. Googling brought up mostly what I stated here.

 

[Welly Wu]

I mean a flat panel LCD monitor. No big bulky CRT monitors. I don't have the physical desk space for one. ViewSonic is something worth looking into by its sheer brand name reputation. I'm thinking about BenQ but don't know didly squat about it.

The configurations are worthwhile because I'm learning so much about motherboards, processors, and ram alone. I know next summer is equivalent to four full fiscal quarters of technological innovation, trend setting sales, and extinction.

Let me ask you or anyone else a question: how do you physically secure your desktop PC? Are those cables and locks worthwhile accessories or just focus on the meat and potatoes for now?

 

[Stephonovich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu ViewSonic is something worth looking into by its sheer brand name reputation. I'm thinking about BenQ but don't know didly squat about it.

Never used any BenQ monitor, LCD or CRT, but I've heard they're not bad. Viewsonic I know to be awesome. Crystal clear. Only thing I ever saw that was sharper was a 19" Sony LCD hooked up via DVI, but that also cost about $800...

Quote:

Let me ask you or anyone else a question: how do you physically secure your desktop PC? Are those cables and locks worthwhile accessories or just focus on the meat and potatoes for now?

I don't. But then, I don't take my computer anywhere. Personally, I think they're mostly crap. A pair of bolt cutters would make very quick work of any cable or even chain you'd put on. The only thing really worthwhile is a case intrusion device that calls you on your cell or something to let you know that the case has been opened. I suppose a lock might deter a casual thief, though, so it might be worthwhile.

This, however, I think is just übercool. Won't stop a dedicated person (reboot with a Linux Live CD... cuts through 99% of security measures), but it's freaking awesome, and would be useful for a dorm room, apartment, or similar situation where you don't want anyone touching your stuff while you go to get pizza or whatever.

 

[bLue_oNioN]

Welly - Most of the questions you asked above, I answered in PM. I hope I answered most of your questions to your satisfaction.

Stephonovich has been really excellent with giving advice, to a point where there isn't much for me to say anymore

One thing...

I am beginning to sense your salivation in anticipation regarding the Athlon 64 chip and I think there should be something cleared up.

Currently, A64 setups aren't actually utilizing their 64-bit potential because Microsoft has yet to hand us a full 64-bit OS. Neither is there full-fledged 64-bit software support with everyday applications for the common consumer. As Stephonovich noted, the A64 does perform better in many respects -- but it isn't because of the 64-bit capacity. What makes the A64 a better chip is HyperTransport, the onboard memory controller, shorter pipelines, a capacity for more ICPs (instructions per clock), etc etc. In other words, it's the better overall chip design, not the touted 64-bit ability, that gives the A64 an edge.

EDIT: A clarification on my clarification -- I'm just adding on to what Stephonovich said so that the reasons for buying an A64 over say, a Prescott, are clear. That way you can make a more informed decision when deciding between the two.

 

[Welly Wu]

OK. I'm screwing my head onto my shoulders even tighter tonight!

In the October 2004 edition of Computer Shopper magazine, they have a feature article on building their "dream PC." I want to ask you some questions about the rationale behind some of their decisions and whether any of it is applicable to my goals and needs in building my own desktop PC.

They wrote of the critical importance of selecting the case, motherboard, CPU, power supply, RAM, and hard disk drive. These are the six items that got most of their focus and is reflected in their budget as such. First, they recommended an middle tower size aluminum chassis with a removable motherboard tray. They liked the Cooler Master ATC-110 case but pointed out that the Lian-Li 6070 case ($159.99 USD @ NewEgg.Com) is also a contender because of its similiar feature set and the kicker is that the latter case is noise-dampened too. Second, the Antec 550-watt Modular True-Control power supply ($103.50 USD @ NewEgg.Com) was their choice. They chose this particular model because more powerful CPUs, GPUs, and peripherals will absolutely demand more electrical power. Third, they recommended the Asus A8V Deluxe motherboard ($129 USD @ NewEgg.Com). It is one of the first to support AMD's Socket 939 platform and it is a standard ATX-form-factor board that uses Via's K8T800 PRO chipset. The feature laden motherboard supports dual-channel memory support, AMD's HyperTransport bus technology, four Serial ATA (SATA) channels, two RAID configurations due to the two onboard RAID controllers, Gigabit Ethernet, eight-channel audio (not that I need or want that ), and built in 802.11G card and antenna. Fourth, it looks like the Corsair TwinX XMS PC3200 DDR RAM got their nod. I am curious about TWO Corsair 184 pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 OEM RAM sticks ($156 USD @ NewEgg.Com). Is my choice even compatible with this motherboard and my CPU choice? Fifth, the all critical selection of Intel or AMD CPUs came down to the AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 for their nod. It is much too expensive for me. I am curious about the AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 512KB L2 cache OEM 64bit CPU ($190 USD @ NewEgg.Com) or the less expensive AMD Athlon 64 3000+, 512KB L2 cache 64bit CPU. Will either one work with the aforementioned motherboard? Sixth, Computer Shopper chose to go with two Western Digital 74GB Raptor Enterprise SATA WD740GD HDDs ($178 USD each @ NewEgg.Com) spinning at 10,000 RPMs and they setup a RAID Level 0 configuration thanks to such capability afforded by their choice of a motherboard. They also chose the Western Digital Caviar SE SATA WD2500JD 250GB 7,200 RPM HDDs ($156.99 USD each @ NewEgg.Com) in the same RAID Level 0 configuration. I don't need that much storage space. What about ONE WD Caviar SE SATA WD2500JD 250GB 7,200 RPM HDD with no RAID configuration? Will that work?

For my stated goals and needs, what do you think: is it worth spending a bit more for these core items (sub-total: $895.48 USD)? Are these core hardware items compatible with Fedora Code 1&2 Linux? Furthermore, are they also compatible with most of the major Linux distributions (i.e., Mandrake, Gentoo, Slackware, SUSE, etc.)?

Let's talk sound and vision. I am curious about this video card: ATI AIW RADEON 9600XT Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-bit, FM/TV/AV In/AV Out, 8X AGP, Model "ALL-IN-WONDER 9600XT" w/ REMOTE -RETAIL ($189 USD @ NewEgg.Com). The reason why I am interested in it is due to the fact that it will give me AM/FM radio, coaxial cable TV, MPEG-1&2 video capture, TV ON DEMAND (i.e., TIVO capabilities). However, I am concerned about the Linux driver compatibility. I am thinking about the Chaintech AV-710 7.1 channel ($25 USD @ NewEgg.Com). There has been a lot of talk about how it represents a stone cold bargain. Sub-total: $214 USD.

Peripherals. I am interested in the Logitech Cordless MX Duo USB & PS/2 104 keyboard and mouse ($65 USD @ NewEgg.Com), NEC ND-3500A ($75 USD @ NewEgg.Com), and a NEC/Mitsubishi FE991SB-BK 19" Diamondtron CRT monitor ($245 USD @ NewEgg.Com). Finally, I am considering the APC BE725BB 725 volt UPS ($83.99 USD @ NewEgg.Com). Sub-total: $468.99 USD.

TOTAL: $1578.47 USD + shipping

I am keeping an eye toward future proofing. The reason why I am choosing a motherboard capable of supporting a 64bit CPU is because I think it is the future of computing...someday. There are 64bit Linux distributions available for free. There are a few 64bit open source programs available on such 64bit Linux distributions. I expect that more applications will be made available as the enticement of 64bit computing whets more of an appetite by hardcore computer geeks (like myself) and later the masses.

Is this a balanced PC system? Have I made the right decisions in terms of checks and balances? What do you think about 64bit computing especially with regard to different Linux distributions and open source productivity programs? Do you think 64bit computing will be a reality by late August 2005?

 

[Elec]

Wow, that's a lot of gear listed. I'll try to go over some of it briefly. Keep in mind that this is what you would be buying if you were buying now. If you're not buying for a year, write up this list, pet it a couple times, then throw it away. Nothing will be the same in a year and there's no reason to torment yourself with configurations you can't afford.

A lot of people really like the Lian Li aluminum cases. I haven't ever seen one in person so I can't give you any impressions, but they are supposed to be quite nice. Whether they're worth the money is up to you. I spent about $40 a year ago to get a nice Raidmax case, blue with a silver front, and a big acrylic window on the side. A Lian Li is probably nicer but for me it wasn't $100 nicer. Extra noise damping is nice depending on the stuff in the case and how quiet you demand your system be. You can use quiet fans to keep noise down and most hard drives aren't loud enough to be a concern unless you're really trying for a silent system.

Antec is a great power supply brand and 550W should be enough for any hardware you throw at it, within reason (not a dozen hard drives). I've heard some buzz about this modular thing but I don't know what exactly it is. There's something for me to go research

I don't really know anything about that particular motherboard. I haven't been keeping up with A64 chipsets and mobos. It's hard to go wrong with Corsair XMS series memory, although it's one of the most expensive brands out there. You'd want 2 sticks if you plan to run dual channel, otherwise one is fine. Dual channel does provide a performance benefit but it's not a huge one. If you're not going to overclock, I would suggest you go with Corsair or Kingston Value series and save the money.

The FX-53 is a top-notch chip but most enthusiasts agree that it's not the chip to buy unless you have more dollars than sense. The regular A64 series makes more sense since the FX chips aren't THAT much faster but do cost a lot more.

You don't need two raptors for productivity. You don't even need one but I wouldn't fault you for buying one because they are fast. Skip RAID 0 - the performance increase is debatable and it doubles the chances of you losing all your data. I have a WD2500JB, which is the IDE version of the 250 gig drive you mention. It's really nice. Not too loud, not too hot, reasonably fast, and huge. You could easily get a single drive like this and partition it up however you like. 10 gigs for Windows, 20 gigs for Linux, 50 gigs for music, etc.

9600xt is a pretty decent midlevel gaming card. Because this one is the all-in-wonder, it has all sorts of video in and out functions, which is nice if you want to use it for a lot of multimedia applications or as part of a home theater PC. A buddy of mine has that Logitech Cordless Duo and it's nice, hard to go wrong with the 16x dual layer NEC DVD burner. The monitor you mention is a CRT, not an LCD, so it will be big and take up a lot of desk space, but Mitsubishi/NEC are well known names in the CRT biz and tend to make good products.

All this stuff is overkill for productivity. This is a power-user's or gamer's system. Now maybe you'll build it and see how cool it is and get into games or audio/video archiving or god know's what. If all you want to do, however, is tinker around, surf Head-Fi, write essays, and email grandma, you can do that for about 500 bucks + monitor. There is no such thing as futureproofing. At the very best, a computer built now will keep up with normal day to day applications for 4-5 years and maybe 2 years for games. Of course if you're running Linux, it may be a different story. A 486 will still run Linux pretty happily.

 

[bLue_oNioN]

In my honest, hearfelt opinion, the entertainment of possibilities has begun to spin a tad out of control, and I do believe it's time for a little grounding. As a college student, I understand how hard it is to earn an income. As a fellow Head-Fi'er, it would pain me to see you spend more than you need to.

SO... understand that the purpose of this post is to aggressively talk you into a more reasonable setup. Seeing that the one suggestion you made for yourself in your post was the best I've read so far, it's also to persuade you to stop taking suggestions from sub-standard magazines like Computer Shopper and do more thinking of your own.

I'm going to first jump straight to the most important question in your post because I feel it's at the heart of the issue:

For my stated goals and needs, what do you think: is it worth spending a bit more for these core items (sub-total: $895.48 USD)?

No, it is not. You do not fold, compile, render, or game. Instead, you are going to use this computer for word processing, web browsing and tinkering. Let's be realistic here -- the extra cash you shell out is simply going to go to waste because you will not utilize the extra potential your hardware offers.

Now let's go through this one by and one and see why.

First, they recommended an middle tower size aluminum chassis with a removable motherboard tray. They liked the Cooler Master ATC-110 case but pointed out that the Lian-Li 6070 case ($159.99 USD @ NewEgg.Com) is also a contender because of its similiar feature set and the kicker is that the latter case is noise-dampened too.

The main purpose of choosing a proper case is to ensure that it will not restrict your upgrade options. The cases listed are filled with open bays. You mention that you only want one HDD. There is no reason to pay for extra bays which will for certain lie around empty.

As for the aluminum chassis, it is entirely unnecessary. Aluminum chassis are supposed to have the upper hand by a thin margin when it comes to thermal dissipation, but you stated that stability is your first and foremost concern so I assume you will not OC, which means you will not notice the difference. In fact, aluminum chassis are a poor choice if noise is an issue -- steel cases provide the best isolation because of their density. The only reason I can think of where you would need an aluminum case is if you move around frequently, as steel cases can be rather heavy.

Second, the Antec 550-watt Modular True-Control power supply ($103.50 USD @ NewEgg.Com) was their choice. They chose this particular model because more powerful CPUs, GPUs, and peripherals will absolutely demand more electrical power.

I personally wonder why they chose the Antec for their "Dream PC" when PSUs from PC Power & Cooling are known to be top dog, but each to his own.

Applied to you, this means absolutely nothing. The system you will build will not consume anywhere near 550 watts, nor will it come anywhere close to the 80% headroom. Again, you will end up with loads of wasted potential, which directly translates to a waste of your hard-earned dollars.

Third, they recommended the Asus A8V Deluxe motherboard ($129 USD @ NewEgg.Com). It is one of the first to support AMD's Socket 939 platform and it is a standard ATX-form-factor board that uses Via's K8T800 PRO chipset. The feature laden motherboard supports dual-channel memory support, AMD's HyperTransport bus technology, four Serial ATA (SATA) channels, two RAID configurations due to the two onboard RAID controllers, Gigabit Ethernet, eight-channel audio (not that I need or want that ), and built in 802.11G card and antenna.

There is a lot of hype packed in there. Current HDDs barely push ATA100 limits, much less SATA. The only pro-SATA reason I can think of when addressing your set of circumstances is that the wires are thinner and will result in a slightly cleaner interior.

Two onboard RAID controllers? You are planning to use one HDD so the RAID controllers be touched -- two onboard RAID controllers just means you're going to waste twice the amount of dollars.

Gigabit Ethernet is hype as well. I highly doubt that at this point, you will need anything above 100Mbit Ethernet.

As for the built-in 802.11G, I only shudder at the thought of what sort of chipset that's using. Do yourself a favor -- buy a simpler motherboard with features you will use and pick up a WLAN card with an approved chipset later on if you feel the need to setup a wireless network in your house.

Fourth, it looks like the Corsair TwinX XMS PC3200 DDR RAM got their nod. I am curious about TWO Corsair 184 pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 OEM RAM sticks ($156 USD @ NewEgg.Com). Is my choice even compatible with this motherboard and my CPU choice?

Why do you need Corsair RAM? The whole purpose of picking up Corsair is to be able to tighten memory timings and squeeze the last drop of performance from your hardware. But you aren't going to OC. Again, this is a big waste of money. Corsair dropped the ball a few months back and was turning out under-performing XMS packages anyway. Try 1GB of Crucial RAM, it's a much better fit for your situation (you don't need tight timings, but may heavily multi-task, so 1GB will most likely be appreciated).

Fifth, the all critical selection of Intel or AMD CPUs came down to the AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 for their nod. It is much too expensive for me. I am curious about the AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 512KB L2 cache OEM 64bit CPU ($190 USD @ NewEgg.Com) or the less expensive AMD Athlon 64 3000+, 512KB L2 cache 64bit CPU. Will either one work with the aforementioned motherboard?

Again, the question comes: You do not fold, compile, render, or game. Instead, you are going to use this computer for word processing, web browsing and tinkering. What need do you have for an A64 3000+? Future proofing? Read on and I'll tell you why you don't need to worry about that right now.

Sixth, Computer Shopper chose to go with two Western Digital 74GB Raptor Enterprise SATA WD740GD HDDs ($178 USD each @ NewEgg.Com) spinning at 10,000 RPMs and they setup a RAID Level 0 configuration thanks to such capability afforded by their choice of a motherboard. They also chose the Western Digital Caviar SE SATA WD2500JD 250GB 7,200 RPM HDDs ($156.99 USD each @ NewEgg.Com) in the same RAID Level 0 configuration. I don't need that much storage space. What about ONE WD Caviar SE SATA WD2500JD 250GB 7,200 RPM HDD with no RAID configuration? Will that work?

It would work, but it wouldn't be practical. There is no doubt those HDDs pump out massive amounts of noise and heat. Are you running a database server? Do you do video editing that requires constant HDD access? 3 milliseconds, if that, of longer wait time to save a Word document isn't that bad, trust me. Do yourself a favor and buy a Samsung Spinpoint -- I promise that you will not notice any different in real-world performance. Your air conditioning bills and ears will thank you.

Let's talk sound and vision. I am curious about this video card: ATI AIW RADEON 9600XT Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-bit, FM/TV/AV In/AV Out, 8X AGP, Model "ALL-IN-WONDER 9600XT" w/ REMOTE -RETAIL ($189 USD @ NewEgg.Com). The reason why I am interested in it is due to the fact that it will give me AM/FM radio, coaxial cable TV, MPEG-1&2 video capture, TV ON DEMAND (i.e., TIVO capabilities). However, I am concerned about the Linux driver compatibility. I am thinking about the Chaintech AV-710 7.1 channel ($25 USD @ NewEgg.Com). There has been a lot of talk about how it represents a stone cold bargain. Sub-total: $214 USD.

Let's talk common sense! This is an EXCELLENT decision -- and the best part is this is only decision in your post you made yourself. See how this is turning out? You're doing a much better job than Computer Shopper is doing. They don't know what they're talking about -- you do.

I am keeping an eye toward future proofing. The reason why I am choosing a motherboard capable of supporting a 64bit CPU is because I think it is the future of computing...someday. There are 64bit Linux distributions available for free. There are a few 64bit open source programs available on such 64bit Linux distributions. I expect that more applications will be made available as the enticement of 64bit computing whets more of an appetite by hardcore computer geeks (like myself) and later the masses.

There is nothing extra for you to tinker around with on a 64-bit system if you aren't using 64-bit applications. Since you don't fold, compile, render, or game, there really is no purpose is wasting the extra money now.

As I had suggested to you in PM, I suggest you do the following:

- Build a budget desktop for yourself. Impose a sub-1000USD limit for the tower, and be a little more liberal for the monitor. If you feel like you need a new desktop now, build it now -- you have nothing to lose. What is available currently will last you until the next big wave.
- Toward the end of next year, we should start seeing dual-core offerings for the average desktop appearing from both AMD and Intel. DDR2 should be faring much better as well (the latencies are a little high at the moment, but as things begin to scale, the advantages should become more and more apparent)
- Come 2006, Longhorn will be released... but probably with two major features, WinFS and Avalon left out. You should probably avoid becoming an early adopter and let things work themselves out for a little bit before jumping in.
- Sometime 2007/2008, when WinFS has been released, the slew of expected bugs have been fixed, and driver support has become more and more mainstream, you will be in the optimal position to upgrade, either to a desktop or a laptop, either of which should be more than you will need for years to come.

It's the plan I'm probably going to stick to, the only difference being that I'm running on a laptop since I have to fly overseas every winter/summer.

Hope my response makes sense, let me know if you have any questions.

Good luck!

 

[Stephonovich]

I was being silent due to extreme tiredness, but hey, I'm bored, slightly rejuvenated thanks to Yerba Mate, so I'll post...

You're definitely going overboard, Welly. The latest system you posted is about what I'm considering buying for college, and I do gaming, Photoshop, video, folding... you name it. That's a kickin' system, and waaay more than what you're going to use it for. As others have mentioned, don't try to futureproof. It doesn't work. The only thing you might do is buy a bigger HD than you think you'll need, as the technology for those tends to stick around for a long time, and extra HD space has never hurt anyone.

A 550W power supply is much more than you need. Heck, nVidia and ATI say you only need a 480W for their latest-gen graphics cards that require two seperate molex connections, and this is assuming they're placed in an already high-component-count system. I'm running a pretty much full system (5 PCI slots filled, Radeon 9800 Pro, two HDs, had two opticals until my first one died...) on a 350W. Was previously running it on a somewhat dodgy 300W. The 300W was barely enough, and a lot of crashes I attribute to that. But I have yet to have a complaint about this 350W. That's going to be way more than you'll ever need for your system, and pretty cheap, too.

If you want to get a Lian-Li case because you like it's looks, hey, I'm all for it. You have to look at it all day, so if you feel you can afford to drop an extra $100 on bling, go for it.

I fear motherboards with integrated anything. They all have it now adays, but I always make it a point to disable it all. I always put in my own network cards, modems, and sound cards. Onboard is almost always crappy (although getting better, at least for audio, I've noticed), and more importantly for you, not as well supported in Linux. Get a cheaper mobo with the chipset you want, and add in what you need. I can live with integrated USB 2.0, as the speed usually doesn't suffer too much. Dunno about Firewire, but I suppose it could be good or bad. I bought a card for mine, but then, I don't have it integrated.

As for Gigabit, I think it's overated and unnecessary for most users, but there are exceptions. For one, it's become almost standard on most modern mobos, so if it comes included, is a well supported chipset, why not? However, probably 99% of networks you'll ever plug into won't use it. LAN party is probably the only place that might, and mind you, everyone has to have Gigabit for it to work properly, without getting into subnetting. So, what's the exception? Diehard gamers and people who transfer large files, both of which I fall into. Ever transferred uncompressed (or even FLAC...) CD images over a 100Mbps network? 100/8=12.5MBps-10% (network overhead)=11.25MBps. 10MBps is a good real world figure. That's more than a full minute for just one CD. Try transferring 30 CDs over that. Or how about raw DV? That's got a bitrate of 3.5MBps. 10 minutes is 2.1GB. Fun, no? Upgrade to Gigabit, and suddenly, that CD only takes you about 10 seconds to transfer, and that 10 minutes of footage, only 30 seconds or so, instead of the 5 minutes or so it'd normally take. An Intel Pro1000/MT card is only about $20 now adays, which for me, is well worth the price.

You don't need Corsair, and especially not XMS. 'Nuff said.

As I've said, onboard is usually bad. Onboard Wi-Fi is bound to be interesting, to say the least. Good luck getting it to work in Linux. Get a Linksys or Orinoco card, and you'll thank yourself later.

You also don't need Raptors. SATA is fine if you have the budget and want the thinner cables (as others have mentioned, the only real benefit right now, due to HD's physical limitations) and increased airflow, but stick with some 7200RPM ones.

If you want to get a mobo that supports a 64-bit chipset, that's fine, but they may very well change the pin package by then, and you'd be stuck using last year's technology, which may or may not be acceptable. I really don't see a problem with this, though, as the mobos supporting this have come way down.

 

[quke]

Well, I got beaten but here's my two cents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu First, they recommended an middle tower size aluminum chassis with a removable motherboard tray. They liked the Cooler Master ATC-110 case but pointed out that the Lian-Li 6070 case ($159.99 USD @ NewEgg.Com) is also a contender because of its similiar feature set and the kicker is that the latter case is noise-dampened too.

Aluminum is nice but not necessary. If you are not going to carry the computer in your backpack there is no real benefit from it. Other than the looks maybe but there are some beautiful steel cases too. Detachable motherboard tray is also a novelty though quite common. You will probably assemble your computer once and then leave it alone for a long time. The removable tray just means that you can screw the mothearboard into the tray outside of the box but then attach the tray with some other means as opposed to screwing the mobo straight inside the box without the removable tray.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu Second, the Antec 550-watt Modular True-Control power supply ($103.50 USD @ NewEgg.Com) was their choice. They chose this particular model because more powerful CPUs, GPUs, and peripherals will absolutely demand more electrical power.

You can manage with a good 350W for a long time. Notice that the real power and the advertised power are further away from each other the cheaper the brand you choose. Antec makes good power sources true.

If I were to buy a new case and a power I would consider Nexus Breeze (also the 400W power alone might be nice) though it lacks on the 3.5" slots for my taste. There are a plethora of other nice cases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu Third, they recommended the Asus A8V Deluxe motherboard ($129 USD @ NewEgg.Com). It is one of the first to support AMD's Socket 939 platform and it is a standard ATX-form-factor board that uses Via's K8T800 PRO chipset.

Quote:

Fifth, the all critical selection of Intel or AMD CPUs came down to the AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 for their nod. It is much too expensive for me. I am curious about the AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 512KB L2 cache OEM 64bit CPU ($190 USD @ NewEgg.Com) or the less expensive AMD Athlon 64 3000+, 512KB L2 cache 64bit CPU. Will either one work with the aforementioned motherboard?

That won't do, sorry. What you need to check is that the socket matches. Usually this is given with the pin count (like the Socket 939 which has 939 pins). The lower end AMD64's are Socket 754 and though I say lower end they are certainly not low end. You can manage very well with an AMD XP 2500+ (Barton) but then you'll again have to look a Socket A motherboard.

The difference between 3200+ and 3000+ will doubtly be worth ten bucks. Both can manage very well and you'll have the option to use software optimized for 64-bit processors somewhere in the future. You could consider the Abit K8V as a motherboard but most if not all of the Socket 754 mobos use Via's K8T800 or nVidia's nForce3 which both are good chipsets. You prolly can't go that much wrong with any bigger brand. Just pick the one that has the onboard accessories you like/want/need.

If the processor isn't marked as "boxed" you will have to buy a separate cooling for it. I recommend getting a good silent one or it will drive you nuts.

Oh, and being one of the first is seldom a good thing. Newer revisions have the glitches fixed and all. And of course there is the Intel option but I wouldn't know much about their products.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu Fourth, it looks like the Corsair TwinX XMS PC3200 DDR RAM got their nod. I am curious about TWO Corsair 184 pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 OEM RAM sticks ($156 USD @ NewEgg.Com). Is my choice even compatible with this motherboard and my CPU choice?

It's compatible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu They also chose the Western Digital Caviar SE SATA WD2500JD 250GB 7,200 RPM HDDs ($156.99 USD each @ NewEgg.Com) in the same RAID Level 0 configuration. I don't need that much storage space. What about ONE WD Caviar SE SATA WD2500JD 250GB 7,200 RPM HDD with no RAID configuration? Will that work?

It will work. RAID 1 would mean that you mirror everything to the other HDD so it works as a backup copy if one of the HDDs would break down. Also it makes reading from the HDD faster when you can do it from two disks at once.

Edit: Oops, mixed RAID 0 and 1. Again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu For my stated goals and needs, what do you think: is it worth spending a bit more for these core items (sub-total: $895.48 USD)? Are these core hardware items compatible with Fedora Code 1&2 Linux? Furthermore, are they also compatible with most of the major Linux distributions (i.e., Mandrake, Gentoo, Slackware, SUSE, etc.)?

The 64-bit setup is an overkill just for using web browsers, text editors, and such but it will carry you long way into the future. Also would you get interested in doing something that demands more performance at least the hardware won't limit you.

At least Fedora already has a 64-bit distribution so I would imagine these parts will work fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu Let's talk sound and vision. I am curious about this video card: ATI AIW RADEON 9600XT Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-bit, FM/TV/AV In/AV Out, 8X AGP, Model "ALL-IN-WONDER 9600XT" w/ REMOTE -RETAIL ($189 USD @ NewEgg.Com). The reason why I am interested in it is due to the fact that it will give me AM/FM radio, coaxial cable TV, MPEG-1&2 video capture, TV ON DEMAND (i.e., TIVO capabilities). However, I am concerned about the Linux driver compatibility. I am thinking about the Chaintech AV-710 7.1 channel ($25 USD @ NewEgg.Com). There has been a lot of talk about how it represents a stone cold bargain. Sub-total: $214 USD.

Don't have much to say about the graphic card's AIW part but it will do for picture quality and performance (especially if you don't want to play the latest games).

Seems rather strange to me that an audiophile would go so cheap on the sound card. I'm still waiting my AV-710 so can't comment about that but other seem to consider even the E-MU 0404 a noticeable improvement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu Peripherals. I am interested in the Logitech Cordless MX Duo USB & PS/2 104 keyboard and mouse ($65 USD @ NewEgg.Com), NEC ND-3500A ($75 USD @ NewEgg.Com), and a NEC/Mitsubishi FE991SB-BK 19" Diamondtron CRT monitor ($245 USD @ NewEgg.Com).

Logitech produces quality stuff. As silly as it sounds you should go to a shop to try some mouses and pick the one that feels the best.

Do not go cheap on the monitor. Ideally that's the only thing you'll see of the expensive computer you just bought. For a CRT I'd pick Samsung 959NF (don't know if the US model numbers differ) or a good ViewSonic. Though the 959NF is an old model I think it's still pretty much the best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu Finally, I am considering the APC BE725BB 725 volt UPS ($83.99 USD @ NewEgg.Com).

UPS is nice, surge protector is adequate. Of course it depends how your electric network is. You won't get much battery power with a home UPS. Just enough to shut down the computer properly (and save your work).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu Is this a balanced PC system? Have I made the right decisions in terms of checks and balances? What do you think about 64bit computing especially with regard to different Linux distributions and open source productivity programs? Do you think 64bit computing will be a reality by late August 2005?

It would be balanced system for a person who needs the raw power. However I think it's a little "source-heavy" for "light use"

Only thing I can recommend is that don't go cheap on the peripherals or it's a bitch to use no matter what's under the bonnet.

64-bit stuff won't be a great revolution over in a year. Instead it will slowly melt into the hardware people are using. Maybe the new Windows will boost things up but that's far away.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

Welly: I cannot keep up with Stephonovich and bLue_oNioN in terms of responses, and whatever I say to you will only echo what they are telling you. I have read all of their advice, and I completely agree with them. You do not what to spend more than $1,000 for what you plan on using the comp for. Do not go crazy on the tower and buy a better monitor. Just make sure you have at least 512MB of RAM. ANY CPU you buy will be fine for what you will be doing. Trust me and the rest, keep it under $1,000.

BTW: Concerning LCD's, Viewsonic, Samsung, and Sharp are outstanding brands that I recommend.

 

[Stephonovich]

Before I head off to bed (well, no, I'm going to wait 'till this F@H work packet is done... but I digress), I've got a few more comments.

First, why the price fluctuations in your setups, Welly? Are you just getting excited and finding new stuff? If so, perfectly understandable; I config dream setups for myself all the time. But you also have to realize that there's nothing wrong with a basic system if all you're doing is basic tasks. Especially when running Linux. The 2500+ I quoted (or your 3000+... but a note, the 2500+ M is AMD's most overclockable CPU to date... you can get them to 3200+ speeds easily) could compile a new kernel in 5 minutes flat or less.

If you're not planning on doing gaming, video work, or maintaining huge databases, why waste money on a computer that's going to be outdated in 6 months anyway?

Save the extra money you would have spent and buy yourself something you'll truly enjoy for a long time, such as some music, or perhaps some good books.

Buying a computer should be like buying a car when pricing. Have a figure in your head when you start. If you have to spend a couple hundred more to get that bigger LCD you think you can't live without, hey, so be it. If you realize you don't need a few things and you can pare it down a bit, all the better. Just don't overbuy. Believe me. As a long time user of older technology, I can attest that you can and will get used to it, and you will enjoy it. You may even get into overclocking, which is a whole 'nother world of it's own, and quite fascinating in it's own right.

Anyway, good luck. Post your final setup here when you do decide.

 

[Welly Wu]

[size=xx-large]AAAAHHHHHH!!! I GOT TO STOP THIS INSANITY!!![/size]

Right now, the best thing I can do is to stop reading computer magazines that pimp the latest hardware and software and just go back to HI-FI and Headphone HI-FI for awhile. I'm doing myself more harm than good.

I'll stop thinking about computers et al until January 2005. Then, I'll remember this thread and the advice given here:

[size=xx-large]WELLY WU! SPEND LESS MONEY ON A COMPUTER! YOU DON'T NEED A BLING BLING SYSTEM![/size]

Oh, yeah: [size=xx-large]AAAAAHHHHHH!!![/size]

:EVIL:

 

[Elec]

LOL I totally agree with these other guys, but I was trying to hold back a bit because I don't know your situation or needs. I stand by my part recommendations in my first post in this thread as being all you really need (though I'd revise my video card recommendation to a Radeon 9200SE - a buddy of mine has built several budget computers with 'em and they're good for the price).

For what you claim to need a computer for, what you're looking at is fun, but WAY overkill. You're looking at the computer equivalent of R-10s when you really only need PortaPros.

 

[Welly Wu]

That by the time I am ready to custom build my own desktop PC, the amount of sheer speed, capacity, power, and flexibility will be even greater for my budget of up to $1000 USD. All of my research suggests that the middle of 2005 will be a pretty pretty interesting time to invest in a custom desktop PC because of the advent of newer technologies: 64bit processors and operating systems, 64 bit ready software programs, PCI Express, and especially a dual core 64bit AMD processor. I'm not suggesting that I can nor should I even try to afford all of that, but the most interesting thing is that I can attain an enormous bang for my buck balance come late August 2005. I also expect that as prices continue to come down for SATA HDDs a little, the amount of gigabytes that I can afford will be just about 1/3 to double more than what I could get today. Trickle down technology will be a bargain hunter's paradise!

Especially if I do a dual-boot Micro$oft Windows XP Professional SP2 / Fedora Code 1 or 2 Linux OSes machine. While my options for 64bit computing will be pretty much slim or none in terms of harnessing those extra bits for everday computing with M$ Windows, the possibilities with Linux are mind boggling alone.

Ah. The Golden Age of PCs is just dawning on the horizon. Time to keep studying up and researching. Building a custom desktop PC, according to my research, is a real piece of cake and it should not take more than the better part of one day off from work and graduate school by the time I am ready.

 

[CSMR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu 2004 is going very well for me personally, professionally, and financially. But, to be honest with you, I think it will take the better part of January - middle August 2005 to work very hard and save up for this major expense -- hand built PC. I'm not sure if that deadline is set in stone because a lot of other factors are still in play in my life. I'm not sure what my financial outlook for 2005 will be either. However, I think $1000 USD is a good hard and fast spending guideline but I fully expect that will balloon to $2500 USD maximum. A productivity PC for academic research / studies / computer learning with strong multi-media capabilities such as TV, Radio, and storage of custom created .FLAC / LAME MP3 files. I'm thinking I want to run a few distributions of Linux as my knowledge grows and wean myself off of M$ Winblowz by the end of 2005. I'd like to buy a flat panel LCD monitor with a HDMI interface (by the time I'm ready to buy, it may be just introduced to the market) so that I can finally navigate through my growing collection of DVD-Audio / DualDiscs without having to buy a big bulky TV. Listening to the radio, especially Internet radio stations worldwide is an attractive option too. I don't need a high end soundcard but a Chaintech AV-710 with the latest Linux / Windows drivers should be just fine. An ATI All in Wonder-ish type of multi-media video card is a distinct possibility too. At least 1GB of some form of RAM compatible with both Linux and Windows. At least a 120GB 7200RPM 8MB SATA HDD for multi-media storage is good. A UPS with 30 minutes backup time is a must. An inexpensive Lite-On DVD +/- R/RW/RAM Dual Layer 8.5GB burner drive is a must. A wireless keyboard and mouse are also a must: some kind of Logitech model is on my mind. I wish I could get more specific but I'm just trying to put together some semblance of a hand built desktop PC in my mind. I still got time on my side.

For what you want to do, you don't need an expensive computer. It shouldn't balloon to $2500. <$600 for the main computer without monitor. I was thinking of building a computer myself the other day, but decided against it since my current computer is already more than I need! I was thinking of:
Asus K8V motherboard, Athlon 64 3000+. Cool and quiet; CPU fan shuts off when not needed too.
Just coming out is an even better option, the A8V and 90mm socket 939 Athlon 64s, which run even cooler than the older ones.
Evercase ECE4252, cheap and recommended by SPCR. Preferably without PSU.
512Mb RAM is easily enough.
Then a hard drive, PSU, a Zalman 7000 heatsink, a 120mm Acoustifan and an optical drive to finish off the system. Video card too, maybe Radeon 9600 (fanless).
I can't see why you would want Linux for Productivity. Save yourself the effort and stick with Windows. If you want to use an open source program rather than MS Office there's Open Office.