[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumB The D865 gets killed by the Canterwood and Nforce2. http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDc1LDU=

That's ironic, because I could never get my AXP 2600+ Barton/nForce2 rig to outperform even an AXP 1600+ Palomino/SiS735 rig in real-world apps.

For starters, although my nForce2 mobo had five PCI slots, three of those actually share the same IRQs as devices in my system (the SATA controller, because my main Windows drive is an SATA drive, and my AGP videocard) that don't like IRQ sharing at all whatsoever. (This IRQ sharing is locked in hardware, and cannot be changed at all through the BIOS. And any attempt to change an IRQ for one of those given slots will also change the IRQ of any devices that also share the same IRQ as the same slot to the very same IRQ as the slot being changed.) And the two PCI slots that don't share IRQs are both located too close to the AGP slot and the CPU for comfort.

Second, I've read that nForce2-based motherboards don't like tRAS being set to a value other than 11, especially when overclocking. But my memory is rated at 2-3-2-6 (the last value being the tRAS setting) - and my NF2 mobo's BIOS would set it to either that or to 2-3-2-5. Normally, lower numbers should be faster - but that timing mismatch between the chipset and memory can cause sluggish performance and unexpected instability.

Which comes to the third point: Because of the mismatched timings, my gaming framerates paused long enough to seriously affect playability. And Windows 2000 and XP often crashed to a BSOD.

 

[Shulaw05]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GokieKS You're right about the rotated and edge mounted IDE connectors... on some cases, you'll need longer cables to reach the the top drive bays. ~KS

do you know oh any particular case that holds the IC7-G well?

 

[Shulaw05]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallijonn SumB, The IC7-Max has problems with the mem voltages over 2.8v. Have you considered the DFI Lan Party line of boards? Yeah, you want the version 2 and above. I hear the Abit IC7-G is even better than the Max3. ~$150. You can't really go wrong choosing between the Abit IC7-G, DFI Pro875B rev B LanParty or the Asus PC800-E. They are all great boards. I of course only do dual channel, and dual channel should have all 4 mem slots filled. You will get less performance with a i865 and all 4 mem slots filled (about -25%).

Both the DFI 865PE and 875B seem to have wonderful ratings...as does the Abit IC7-G. the abit is about $30 bucks cheaper...so what advantages do either of the DFI models have over the Abit? reviews for both say they are easy to overclock. how fast will i be able to get my processer to work either of these mobos (Intel Pentium 4/ 2.8C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512K Cache, Hyper Threading Technology - Retail). also, if i do decide to overclock, what extra compentents should i buy besides heatsinks and paste?

let me regress for a second also...for either of these mobos, should i be using all 4 mem slots (4 x 256 sticks)? what am i gaining by using all 4 mem slots inseted of just 2 512 sticks?

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shulaw05 Both the DFI 865PE and 875B seem to have wonderful ratings...as does the Abit IC7-G. the abit is about $30 bucks cheaper...so what advantages do either of the DFI models have over the Abit? reviews for both say they are easy to overclock. how fast will i be able to get my processer to work either of these mobos (Intel Pentium 4/ 2.8C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512K Cache, Hyper Threading Technology - Retail). also, if i do decide to overclock, what extra compentents should i buy besides heatsinks and paste? let me regress for a second also...for either of these mobos, should i be using all 4 mem slots (4 x 256 sticks)? what am i gaining by using all 4 mem slots inseted of just 2 512 sticks?

It also depends on whether your mem is single-sided or double-sided. With an 800MHz FSB, PC3200 DDR mem and an i875P chipset, here is the performance order in terms of memory configuration (from fastest to slowest):

• 4 x 256 double-sided modules
• 2 x 512 double-sided modules or 4 x 256 single-sided modules
• 2 x 512 single-sided modules
• 4 x 256 mem modules of mixed timings/speeds - 2 x 256 of one spec, 2 x 256 of a different spec

Hope this helps.

 

[GokieKS]

For the Abit boards, you shouldn't have any problems with cable length if you use a mid-tower case. Out of the ones you listed, the Antec is the only one that may have problems.

In terms of memory configuration, I'd suggest going with 2 512MB sticks now to run in dual channel mode, and leave yourself with the option of upgrading to 4 in the future.

On overclocking, it's not guaranteed. But on the majority of P4Cs, you should be able to raise the FSB to at least 220MHz, a 10% overclock (assuming your memory can take it), which would make the processor run at 3.08GHz. I won't say that a 250FSB is easily reached like it is on the 2.4Cs, but it's definitely possible.

~KS

 

[wallijonn]

http://www6.tomshardware.com/motherb...712/index.html

http://www6.tomshardware.com/motherb...602/index.html

regarding Anandtech's mem test:
the problem is that he didn't really test Single Sided (SS) memory at DDR400. So you are left comparing SS tests run at DDR500 with Double Sided (DS) memory at DDR500.

The other problem is, is it really fair to mix 256MB with 512MB? Most 512MB DIMMs are slower than 256MB DIMMs. But if you are thinking of going beyond 1G total memory they are the only game in town.

My problem is that I have Crucial 64 x 64 (SS) 512Mb DIMMS. The only other option would be Kingston KVR400X64C3AK2 / 1 G kit. They are DS having 16 chips per module. Having paid $220 for my 1 G kit, do I sell my kit ofr $150 and then buy 2 Kingston kits for $350? It would seem to make more sense to buy another 1G of SS Crucial for another $170 (If you buy directly from Crucial and they have a factory in your state you have to pay state taxes). I also notice that the zipzoom & tom's hardware calls for a CT6464Z40B.8T but mine are the .E16T variation. (here's more confusion: http://www.abxzone.com/forums/archiv...p/t-74203.html )

 

[Shulaw05]

what is the best mobo for my setup if i'm NOT going to overclock...ever?

i'm assuming it will have 4 dimm slots...would it be more efficent to run it off of 2 512's or 4 256's...again, no overclocking?

 

[wallijonn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shulaw05 what is the best mobo for my setup if i'm NOT going to overclock...ever? i'm assuming it will have 4 dimm slots...would it be more efficent to run it off of 2 512's or 4 256's...again, no overclocking?

$99 Intel D975PBZLK. http://www.emicrox.com/eShop/product.aspx?pid=787815 3 year retail warranty even though it is from a bulk pack (not oem). they therefore use the Intel Bios, not an oem (dell, hp, et. al.) bios.

as to memory - how much do you want? 512, 1g, 2g, 4 gig? if you buy 4 DS 256s - you have no future growth. If you buy 2 SS or DS 512 you can expand. But the 512MB chips are not as fast as the 256 chips. you'd have to spend $350 - $440 for 2 Kingston KVR400X64C3AK2/1G kits (4 DS 512MB modules). Do you want to spend that kind of money for the absolutely best performance?

At $350 for 4 DIMMs (2G) that is still still cheaper than 1G of overclockable memory (2 modules).

Far Cry needs 1G to play smoothly.

I have been using 2 Crucial 512 MB modules and it is plenty fast with my 3G Northwood. I'm waiting for a patch to Far Cry that will enable fast saves, or saving games for that matter instead of console save points. It would help if they can make it a DVD instead of 5 CDs. I think Doom 3 will be 3 CDs max. Imagine your playing a level and then it asks you to install the next CD.

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_a...&mode=googlecp

http://www1.bottomdollar.com/search_...200&mode=bdgcp

http://store.topmic.com/ocz4661024ebdcpe-k.html That's $377 for 1G. That's the type of stuff you have to get to really get into overclocking.

My suggestion:
pick three or 4 mobos. then see what memory is certified on the manufacturer's website. then visit the memory makers and see what they have to offer. then see who has the lowest prices. See which mobos can use the same memory. See if that memory can be used on AMD machines. if so, which mobos? AMDs can usually run the same memory at faster timings, but they also have less mem throughput (unless you're talking 939 with dual channel). As I said before, I don't do single channel mem. Which means that I would rather not have a single channel AMD. I wouldn't by a 9800Pro with a 128 bit mem bus, either. It's 256 mem bus or nothing. Look at the voltages.

if you are only going to buy 2 mem sticks, then the i865 may be a better bet. but it's throughput will not be as good as 4 sticks in an i875. in other words, if you ever stick in another 2 sticks you will not be as fast as if you had bought the i875 with 2 sticks and then added another 2 sticks later. This is the position I now find myself in. Do you go with DS which create more heat and consume more power, or do you go with SS? (There is more air space between SS modules). Not many SS modules are made.

It's a lot of homework. But that is part of the fun of choosing to make your own PC.

Don't be discouraged. The best thing you can do is get the fastest possible cpu you can afford. For me that was a $220 3.0. If you can find a 533MHz cpu that will allow you to run at 800MHz, then you would be talking. All you would then need would be 800MHz memory (DDR400/PC3200).

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/specB/pdf/BA08647.pdf

are you willing to spend $700 for 2G (4x512) or would you rather spend $350?

Is there such a beast, guys?

on memory: http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2287

 

[gastro54]

Hell, if your gonna get 2gb of ram, might as well go multiprocessor. Multiprocessor is the way to go if you are going to be running many, high cpu intensive apps @ the same time. For example: ripping/converting a DVD to DivX while playing Battlefield Vietnam. I would suggest AMD for this unless you are willing to shell out major $$ for Intel Xeons.

What do you plan to use the computer for anyways?

Memory is very cheap if you are not overclocking (mmm, BH5 chips..wayoverpricednow), you can easily find 512 sticks of 3200 memory @ $100 each.

I personally prefer AMD to Intel and ATI gfx cards over nVidia, but since I think you are set on Intel, just go with that.

For cases, definately go for the Lian-Lis.
For the powersupply, get a Fortron 350W (It can supply much more than what it is rated and also are reputed to have very stable voltages)

Also, I recomend newegg for sourcing your parts.

 

[Shulaw05]

Thank you everyone for your help and opinions. I'm pretty sure what i'm gonna go with now...here is my final layout;

Case:
Cooler Master Praetorian SILVER ALUMINUM MID-TOWER CASE, Model "PAC-T01-E1"

PSU:
Antec 430W Power Supply, Model "TRUE430"

Motherboard:
ABIT "IC7-G MAXII ADVANCE" i875P Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU

Processor:
Intel Pentium 4/ 2.8C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512K Cache, Hyper Threading Technology

Memory:
OCZ Performance Series Dual Channel Kit 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3500 - Retail

CD/DVD Burners:
1) Lite-On Black 52X32X52X16 Combo Drive, Model SOHC-5232K, OEM Bulk Pack
2) NEC 8X Black Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive, Model ND-2510A BLK, OEM BULK

Hard Drive:
SAMSUNG 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model SP1614C, OEM Drive Only

Opertating System:
XP Professional

I think if i go with the ICG-7 i'll have the ability to overclock if i decide to later down the road. also, after reading reveiws, ocz memory seems to work well with the ICG-7, overclocking or not. The coolermaster should be small enough to hold the ICG-7 (short wires), but have enough space to hold everything. Since i don't plan on overclocking immediately, i'm not going to replace any of the fans in the case, or get a heatsink or thermal paste quite yet. I think this set up should work well if i run it off the base specs, and if i decide that isn't fast enough, i'll be able to overclock without having to spend too much more money.

I guess i never did tell anyone what this computer will be used for. basically, it is going to be all purpose. for me and my future wife. i do some moderate gaming (sports games, doom, etc.), lot of downloading, and i'm in law school...so a lot of internet research and word processing. the misses does a lot of media stuff (digital camera, cds, dvds). it will get a lot of general use, as one of always seems to be doing something on it.

I know i haven't listed a video or sound card. these are the things i'm least worried about. i'll probably go buy an audigy 2ZS, and the video card is still up in the air. the radeon 9800 are kinda pricy (around $200)...what is the best valued video card if i'm not going to be doing any real 'serious' gaming?

Again, thank you all for you help.

 

[lojay]

[edit: Didn't know you're helping a guy out already...sorry guys...but still plz do help

]

I do graphics design for work and as a hobby, and the PC has been my sole music playback source. I've had a dream to have Illustrator + Photoshop + Dreamweaver + Edonkey2000 + SLSK + IE windows open when I work, and still be able to get the work done....

For my computer currently, any 3 of the above would result in DEAD SLOW speed and freezes.


What I've bought for my new PC already:

RAM
Samsung 512MB DDR400 PC3200
Motherboard
Grandmars i865PE (same as a DFI's 865PE AL motherboard)
Harddrive
Seagate Barrucada IV 80G
Soundcard
E-MU 1212m Digital Audio System
CPU Heatsink
Zalman 7000- Cu CPU Heatsink
PSU
2theMax 370W PSU, MAX. 440, Three extremely quiet built in fans.
DVD+-RW
NEC 2500A DVD+-RW Burner
Fans
Six not-too-quiet 92mm fans.
GPU
GeForce 4 MX 440
Secondary CDRW
Maxell 48x24x48 CDRW [have already, thinking of selling]

Going to buy:

- P4 2.8C has hyperthreading btw?
What CPU should I buy to match my RAM?
- Another Samsung 512 DDR400?
Are two RAM sticks enough for my massive application requirements?
- A fast an reliable hdd, another Seagate'll do.

I just need the PC for graphics design, application work, word app, mostly internet usage, heavy downloading, playback for music and DVDs. I also make music too, with apps like SONAR 3 or Cubase 2 sx.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lojay [edit: Didn't know you're helping a guy out already...sorry guys...but still plz do help ] I do graphics design for work and as a hobby, and the PC has been my sole music playback source. I've had a dream to have Illustrator + Photoshop + Dreamweaver + Edonkey2000 + SLSK + IE windows open when I work, and still be able to get the work done.... For my computer currently, any 3 of the above would result in DEAD SLOW speed and freezes. What I've bought for my new PC already: RAM Samsung 512MB DDR400 PC3200 Motherboard Grandmars i865PE (same as a DFI's 865PE AL motherboard) Harddrive Seagate Barrucada IV 80G Soundcard E-MU 1212m Digital Audio System CPU Heatsink Zalman 7000- Cu CPU Heatsink PSU 2theMax 370W PSU, MAX. 440, Three extremely quiet built in fans. DVD+-RW NEC 2500A DVD+-RW Burner Fans Six not-too-quiet 92mm fans. GPU GeForce 4 MX 440 Secondary CDRW Maxell 48x24x48 CDRW [have already, thinking of selling] Going to buy: - P4 2.8C has hyperthreading btw? What CPU should I buy to match my RAM? - Another Samsung 512 DDR400? Are two RAM sticks enough for my massive application requirements? - A fast an reliable hdd, another Seagate'll do. I just need the PC for graphics design, application work, word app, mostly internet usage, heavy downloading, playback for music and DVDs. I also make music too, with apps like SONAR 3 or Cubase 2 sx.

First off, what is your current graphics card?

For graphics design, you'd also want a workstation-class graphics card, as well. (Examples of such cards are based on nVidia's Quadro and ATi's FireGL series of graphics chipsets. They may not perform well in games, but they do generally provide better 3D image quality for 3D graphics designing.)

And all of the C-series P4's (with "800MHz" FSB) have HyperThreading.

 

[lojay]

I've heard you have to match the RAM, clocks here and there, and the CPU to have the max potential (non overclocking still) ?

I do 2D imaging, photoshop or illustrator. Since my PC sucks, I haven't used Lightwave for years. But thanks for reminding me this one, I've almost threw my 3D courses I've been through to the bin.

I use a Geforce 4 mx 440. I've heard you can solder a geforce 2 (i've got an old one) to become a quadro, right?

Mainly what I'm looking for is the speed maxed to let me run a few graphics programs smoothly (while downloading stuff in the background...hehe) or surf the internet without eg slowing dramaically each time I go to the infamous allmusic.com. Basically I've turned away from allmusic ever since their new layout beacause it whored too much off my sys-res.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

OIC. In that case, then, a workstation-class graphics card is nice to have, but not necessary. And you may still need a new graphics card anyway; older AGP 2x-only graphics cards will not work on newer motherboards at all (and will either fry your new motherboard or will not even physically fit that newer AGP slot at all whatsoever).

EDIT - Now I see that you've bought a GeForce MX 440. That card should work on your new motherboard. However, 2D image quality is mediocre at best compared to newer-generation graphics cards.

 

[lojay]

So is my Geforce 4 mx 440 new or old?

Yeah, I've edited my post above, to mention my more applications based requirements...

Thanks man!