Build me a PC "Mac Mini"

[bangraman]

When I posted the thread about the Mac Mini, there was a barrage of posts about how a PC-based solution was superior to the Mini for HTPC/Home Audio PC use. So here's your chance to put your virtual money (and eventually my real money if the requirements are met) where your mouth is. We'll cover the real basics, before moving onto HTPC functionality.


Basic requirements (ALL must be met):

~2Ghz P4 class
>=80Gb storage
512MB RAM
LAN, basic audio onboard
DVD-ROM drive as minimum
USB2.0 and Firewire
DVI out
Wireless keyboard and mouse stylistically matched to case
As silent as Mac Mini
Enlosure: Either a similar footprint to Mac Mini (no more than 1.5x deviation in height and length and no more than 1" deviation in width), OR an enclosure which will match a typical contemporary Japanese Hi-Fi component (Let's take as a reference the Sony DVP-NS975V) in terms of style and dimensions. In either case must be aesthetically pleasing and decor-neutral.
Bluetooth and 802.11G BUILT IN (i.e no front protrusions, extraneous cables, huge rear aerials or blocking of rear USB ports with dongles)
Programmable remote control of any PC function via bluetooth mobiles and PDA's with visual feedback
Must not exceed $900 including an OEM copy of Windows XP.


IN THE INTERESTS OF KEEPING THE THREAD TO THE POINT, ONLY COMPLETE SYSTEM SPECS TO BE POSTED PLEASE.

 

[MichaelFranks]

don't hear the hate, give the mini a chance.

 

[bangraman]

No discussions of relative merits / disadvantages of each platform in this thread. I am simply asking for a PC set-up which will match the Mac Mini in terms of the above requirements initially. If you have posted in one of those comparison discussion threads in favour of the PC, it's time for you to step up to the plate.

 

[mshan]

If you're going to build a true PC based HTPC, I think you will be better off with a full sized ATX mobo and mid / full tower with excellent ventilation. This way, you can take advantage of the much more extensive base of software / hardware available in the Windows domain and probably achieve a very powerful yet almost silent computer. There are also some very stylish "horizontal" HTPC cases from companies like Silverstone LC03 or Ahanix D4, but they are rather expensive and they tend to heat up rather fast (i.e. they become noisy if you put powerful components in them). I really like the styling of the Ahanix MCE302, but it only allows you to use low profile pci cards (extremely limiting).

Good resources are:
http://www.avsforum.com
http://www.silentpcreview.com

If you just want to stream music and play back dvds, I think the Apple Mac Mini and an Apple Airport Express is a damn fine out of the box combo.

 

[bangraman]

What do you mean by a True PC based HTPC? The HT in HTPC means Home Theater, doesn't it? When people talk about Home Theater, it usually means playing back music and playing DVD's... doesn't it?


PVR comes later, in case you're wondering. The reason I didn't put it in the spec is that PVR is not an integral part of "HT", although it is usually one of the features of an HTPC system. The aim in speccing the hardware is to have a truly living room friendly machine which does the basics to begin with, which the Mac Mini accomplishes. All I'm asking for is a PC which satisfies the same requirements. Surely after all that talk in the various Mac Mini threads, it's not an impossible thing to ask... or is it?

 

[mshan]

There are a lot of programs designed to do specific things in a home theater environment and a lot of them are written for Windows.

Some people like to use something like FFDShow to improve DVD playback quality.

There is a dedicated software based dvd player such as Theatertek.

There is a multi-media interface such as J. River Music Center.

You can install an High Definition tv tuner or hardware / software Tivo like functionality.

All of this stuff usually quickly starts to require multiple pci expansion slots and starts to consume a lot of power / generate a good amount of heat (so you typically need a case with good ventilation to keep everything quiet / silent).

I think a lot of people view home theater computers as a good value because all of that processing power can be harnessed to scale and process images like what might have cost thousand and thousand of dollars if you bought dedicated hardware to do so.

There is probably stuff written for Mac (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...s=&forumid=115), but there is probably a lot less of it because most people use windows.

 

[bangraman]

If I must wade into this, then let me tell you that I have/tried all of what you mentioned and more besides. And we'll delve into these matters later as I said.


Now, we're just looking at the hardware / remote control components. If you can satisfy the requirements for a Mac Mini equivalent / beating HTPC base, I invite a specification.

 

[mshan]

Hi:

I think you might try posting in that AVS forum and see what they say.

There are probably some really hard core HTPCers there that could come up with something competitive in the windows domain.

Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[450]

What version of XP?

Home, Pro, Media Center, Tablet???

Home is the cheapest and basically everything Pro is except some networking differences.

 

[bangraman]

Up to you, 450... as long as it can function as a HTPC.

 

[mshan]

Do you like the appearance of this computer case?:

http://david.troop85.org/modules.php...showpage&pid=6

It can accept any micro-ATX mobo, so you should be able to get 3 PCI slots with it.

Major issue is that the power supply fan becomes audible if you start putting rather high powered component in it:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article146-page1.html

 

[bangraman]

If you get the whole PC spec, I'm sure we can all check it out.

 

[mshan]

A fairly cheap option is to get a Biostar M7NCG mATX mobo (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduc...138-234&depa=0) and a mobile Athlon XP cpu processor.

A more powerful option is an Athlon 64 3000+ and MSI mATX mobo (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...130-485&depa=1).

The second one has an integrated 9200 video card, so it's pretty good for HTPC.

Personally, I would move up to an 128 MB ATI or Sapphire Radeon 9600 video card (passively cooled). You would specifically be looking for the standard card, not the Pro, XT, or SE versions.

People at AVS Forum use this 10 bit video card with projectors and are very happy with it (the 9000 series is 8 bit, so rounding errors might lead to off textures and off colors, though this may not be perceptible on a small computer screen).

PCI sound card would be whatever you want.

EDIT: the MSI mobo only accepts PCI Express video cards. 6600GT video cards are supposed to have awesome video quality, but I'm not sure if the heat they produce will make the power supply fan in the Antec Aria spin up audibly.

Also, another video option for the first mobo is a Matrox G450, which can be had on Ebay for less than $30 shipped. Beautiful 2D quality and you can get a Matrox dongle that allows all kinds of cool dual screen output options to a regular tv screen.

You will probably get a lot more responses if you also post your question here:

http://forums.anandtech.com/categori...014&entercat=y

 

[Daijoubu]

P4 and silent doesn't go togheter

If you want power but not too much heat, look at PentiumM

If you wan quiet/silent and even fanless, look at VIA CPUs

mATX is quite big, mini-ITX and nano-ITX fits better

But then, both aren't cheap...

 

[bangraman]

Exactly. Complete specs within the requirements anyone? Or are you guys going to admit defeat?