[Dodgexander]

Hi all, thanks in advance to anyone taking the time to reply.
 
I am looking to see if I can get an upgraded sound from my AKG K550s. For a while I had been using them connected directly via RCA to the sound card in my PC, the Asus Xonar HDAV. As I understand this card, unlike some other Xonar models doesn't have an integrated headphone amp. Still, I found the sound quality decent, but underwhelming. In fact compared to what I was using before (a plantronics gaming headset) they were quite the disappointment, I bought them based on reviews without trying them (first mistake) and found they were disappointing.
 
I am wondering If its possible to pick up a decent upgrade, ideally through a USB sound card if I can (so I can also use on my laptop) because I would also like a microphone input too, from what I can see, no DAC/Amp has a headphone input integrated?
 
I do own a DAC/Amp in a fiio E7 and it does add some warmth and bass to my K550s but I don't really like the idea of having to downsample all my music to 16bit 44.1 khz, will going from the E7 to an external sound card make my K550's sound better or worse? If worse, what DAC/Amp would I have to get to hear an improvement?
 
If it's the case that a Sound Card would be a downgrade compared to a DAC at the same price then I would be willing to use a different device for a headphone input (sadly my laptop's headphone jack is broken).
 
I have researched and understand the basics of headphone impedance, as I understand my K550s aren't too hard to drive and therefore sound best when equipped with a Amp outputting as close to 0hms as possible, I think the fiio e7 I have is a good match for this, even with my other Sennheiser Px100s. I also learnt that some sound cards, including integrated ones such as my laptop output high ohms output which can make easy to drive headphones sound worse. Is this true?
 
Are there any USB sound cards that fit my needs for good sounding music with a good low ohms headphone amp, but also with a headphone jack?
 
How would spending the same money on a sound card compare to buying a Dragonfly Black or Red for example?
 
Am I asking too much of the K550s and should just upgrade my headphones? To date the phones I enjoyed the most were my old Etymotic Research ER6i in ears that I used some years ago with my mp3 player, sadly they broke and haven't been able to replace them. I like base and warmth in sound, but it was the clarity, separation that made me love these,despite obvious lack of bass.
 
I am on a budget, but I would like to keep it around £150/$200/€180
 
Thanks for any help you can give!

 

[cel4145]

I do own a DAC/Amp in a fiio E7 and it does add some warmth and bass to my K550s but I don't really like the idea of having to downsample all my music to 16bit 44.1 khz

So just to verify, you own higher res music? CD audio is 44.1/16 bit.

 

[Dodgexander]

Thanks for your reply! Yes, I do. I know there's negligible perceivable differences above 16/44.1 but I want to make sure it plays the music I have unprocessed, I also may consider buying more lossless music in the future, I know the dragonfly has a limit of 24/96 and I probably won't notice a difference with 192khz but it would still be nice to have for future proof and compatibility in the future. I don't have 192khz music right now, only 96khz and I know the equipment used to listen matters a lot more than its sample frequency.

 

[cel4145]

Well, I would recommend looking at external DAC/amps rather than external "sound cards" like from Creative or Asus. You can still use the mic input on your computer even if you use and external USB dac/amp. Those sound cards are not the best bang for your buck in audio quality compared.

You may not notice much difference from a better dac/amp than your E7. There's a point at which better specs on a dac/amp are just better specs because the distortion levels are already lower than the threshold of human hearing.

As far as something that fits your budget that is hi res capable, maybe someone else will have a suggestion. If you want a kick ass desktop amp/dac, you could always get an Audio-GD NFB-11 which will cost you more. That would future proof you for later more difficult to drive headphones.

 

[Dodgexander]

Thanks, that's what I feared. I was hoping to kill two birds with one stone since my laptop's microphone jack is broken, but it's not impossible for me to buy solely a cheap USB sound card just for the mic input!

Thanks for the recommendation, that would double my budget so I'm gonna have to think about it hard. How does it compare to the dragonfly red?

I read that it's a bad idea to drive low impedance phones with high impedance amps, is this true? How would it sound whilst using the k550?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Dodgexander]

I noticed I posted this in the wrong forum. Could a mod move it for me? Thanks.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Logistics]

In reality, your headphones are the common 32-Ohm impedance so most anything will drive them, especially sound-cards.  From what I've read, they have a minimum input power of 50mW, and a nominal power-handling of 200mW so I would look into a mild amplifier.  A stock sound-card is not going to show you the the features of your headphones, not the good nor the bad.  You're passing sound through a sound-card which has nothing, but electrolytic capacitors in it's signal-path--that alone is going to hurt your sound quality so much that you'll never notice that "negligible difference" between sampling rates.
 
If you want to maximize your audio quality, use an external DAC/Amp.  At the very least, get a quality, external amplifier so you can add a DAC, later.  Even if you were to find an inexpensive reciever on craigslist with it's own headphone output, you would get better output than straight off the card simply because the output power of the sound-card is going to be very minimal.

 

[Dodgexander]

I have a fiio e17 that adds some warmth to the sound and I've also tried them connected to two home AV receivers with headphone outs and I don't really notice a difference. Would there be substantial gain getting a better DAC/amp or even just a designated headphone amp?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Logistics]

I have a fiio e17 that adds some warmth to the sound and I've also tried them connected to two home AV receivers with headphone outs and I don't really notice a difference. Would there be substantial gain getting a better DAC/amp or even just a designated headphone amp?

Well, using the fiio is like using a source and amp in one. When you hooked your headphones up to those two receivers, what were you using as a source?

Matthew

 

[Dodgexander]

Well, using the fiio is like using a source and amp in one. When you hooked your headphones up to those two receivers, what were you using as a source?

Matthew

Sorry for the very late reply, I actually didn't get notified. I use a PC as the source. I have a collection of ripped music in flac format which I play back in foobar2000 in wasapi mode to avoid the windows mixer.

I'm still wondering why everyone seems so impressed with the akg k550s I find them pretty dull compared to my old iems the etymotic research er6i's.

 

[Logistics]

And how are you outputting from your PC?  Are you running analog output at the moment or have you switched to digital out from your PC?

 

[Dodgexander]

And how are you outputting from your PC?  Are you running analog output at the moment or have you switched to digital out from your PC?

Thanks for your reply again!
It depends, I've tried lots of different ways.

I usually have them connected to my PC using the RCA outs of my sound card, a Asus Xonar HDAV.

A while ago I thought buying a portable DAC/amp might help so I bought a fiio e7 to use connected to my PC and also for my phone/cowon pm player. So I sometimes listen through that too.

Then for my laptop I bought a creative soundblaster play2 external sound card.

And I sometimes also connect them to my living room PC via my Onkyo SR608 receiver, I also have an older home theatre receiver I've tried too.

Generally they sound uninspiring on all sources. My fiio probably gives them the best sound with bass boost on 1 but I'm still not really happy with them. In fact I think my granddad's of Senheiser PX-100s sound better.

I'm a little confused because i know they are supposed to be easy to drive and shouldn't require an amp but my fiio does little to improve the sound.

If I connect them to my RCA connectors on my sound card how much impedance will be sent to them? My sound card has a front headphone out too but I don't think it has a dedicated headphone amp and I don't usually use it because of background noise/interference.

Perhaps they are just not for me? I used to love my old iems the etymotic er6is. I wonder if these are too balanced for my liking and I'm suited to ones with better detail/treble/mids.

 

[Logistics]

Well, maybe it's just the combination of parts you're using.  Perhaps, you just need to shuffle things around to get it just right.  Your headphones aren't high on power-handling, but they are high on efficiency.  But out of the component model names you did list, none of them have high output power.  The Fiio E7 is absolutely, not a great candidate for powering your headphones.  Onkyo doesn't list any output specifications for your receiver so I'm going to assume that it does not have appreciable output power.
 
In my case, my headphones have ridiculous power-handling (above 1W), but that doesn't suggest quality.  However, I saw a very large improvement when I moved to an old, Yamaha C-65 which doesn't actually list it's output power in mW, but rather that it has a 6V output at 100-Ohms.  Well, it would help to have more information, but based on those two values, alone one would calculate 360mW, which is pretty good.  If we assume the headphone IC always receives 6V, and move to 32-Ohm headphones, we now have 1.125W, and with my 24-Ohm headphones a big 1.5W.  I know this is wrong however, since the IC's maximum output current is a mere 70mA, and it would require 250mA to reach this wattage.  Well, that's the best I can do based on what I know, and given the specs I've read.
 
After that, I saw a huge improvement in quality by moving from my X-Fi to my M-Audio Delta 410, which is an actual professional card, albeit lower line.
 
In any case, I think your cans are starving for power, and you just don't have anything to offer them.

 

[Dodgexander]

Looks like a face a dilemma then. I use my headphones for PC use with a antlion mic attached so I have to keep the mic plugged in to a sound card. Ideally I would like to find a solution which would give me a good DAC+AMP but also have the option for a microphone. Even better if it was USB so I could also use it when travelling with my laptop.
 
If my Fiio E17 seems to be giving me the best quality sound I'm guessing investing in a separate DAC+AMP or a better integrated unit will be fine, but which models work particularly well with low impedance, high efficiency headphones like the K550s? It would be ace to find a USB device that also supports high res audio in its windows driver since I also have some high res flac files.

 

[Logistics]

I contact Nelson Pass about this, one time and explained I wanted to use my current headphone, but that nobody was working with me--people kept dismissing my headphones as garbage.  He admitted that he also had a couple pairs of Sony headphones which he enjoyed, very much.  His suggestion was to buy or assemble a follower-buffer.  It's just a simple form of amplification that was great for my 24-Ohm headphones.  In this case, the IRF610 Class-A project amplifier, easily found on the web:  http://diyaudioprojects.com/Solid/IRF610-Class-A-Headphone-Amp/
 
It sounds like the author of that project was in the same position as you.