[Braver]

hm, my to-buy-list is big, but not that big.

it probably takes up a whole room to store them man!

 

[pigmode]

Quote:

Originally posted by Todd R >If people were never to see most modern pop artists and judged them soley >by their musical talents, do you think they would like them as much, or at >all? BINGO!!!!!!!!!! Proof that MTV has runied rock and pop. Before 1882 you actually had to have a good song and be talented to be heard on the radio. After 1982, you only had to have an interesting video and/ or a "look". I can remember when I didn't even know what my favorite artists looked like!

I do'nt know about that. that sounds a little crusty. In my dayyyy...

Times have changed. The medium has changed. Sometimes I want to agree with you, but then I remember how the older folks felt about our music when we were young.

 

[dhwilkin]

Quote:

Todd R said... Before 1882 you actually had to have a good song and be talented to be heard on the radio. After 1982, you only had to have an interesting video and/ or a "look".

Uh huh... and what about the 100 year period between 1882 and 1982?

 

[Todd R]

>Uh huh... and what about the 100 year period between 1882 and 1982?

DOH!
Oh, yeah 1982.
Hey, gimmie a break those number are really close together and I got big fingers.

 

[Todd R]

Quote:

Originally posted by pigmode I do'nt know about that. that sounds a little crusty. In my dayyyy... Times have changed. The medium has changed. Sometimes I want to agree with you, but then I remember how the older folks felt about our music when we were young.

Maybe I am a bit crusty (or we could substitute the word "experienced"), but I'll guarantee you we won't be hearing Brittany, Backstreet, NSYNC, etc in 10 more years.

Good music, and true talent lasts no matter the times or medium.

Hear much from New Kids on the Block, Milli Vanilli, Men Without Hats, Shawn Cassidy, or Donny Osmond on the radio anymore?

NOPE! Pretty much considered a joke. Can't give their albums away.

How about Dire Straits, Fleetwood Mac, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, REM, or Pink Floyd?
I Hear those on the radio all the time, and their music still sells.

Both groups of bands were around between the 70's and 80's.

Actual artists who write thier own music and can play instruments
vs.
Bubble gum, pretty boy, manufactured, image heavy pop groups that look good and can dance.

See the difference?

We are just going through the same thing all over again.

 

[beavisclone]

*Sigh* When I started this thread, I thought it could be a place for Britney Spears fans to post what they thought of the album and encourage others to get it (that's the point of this forum, isn't it?) I expected a few Hecklers and was ready for people to not like the album (provided they'd actually heard it first). What I had NOT expected was the amount of hate posts. There was a REALLY negative posting on the Ben Folds thread a few days back, but that guy had atleast heard the album first. So, even though I didn't agree with him, atleast he knew what he was talking about.

In contrast, most of the comments here have been about Britney Spears, "the icon", "the celebrity", or "the image". I suppose that's cause most of you don't consider her music "music". The rest have been about Pop music in general, which I don't think belongs in this thread. If you want to talk about how much you hate Pop music, go post in the thread coolvij was nice enough to start.

There's something very interesting happening here, which I think might be of benifit to us all to point out:

I'll be first to admit that I hate a lot of music. (I love a lot more than I hate, but there's a LOT I simply can't stand.) I do not like Country because I'm not a redneck. I can't stand Rap because I'm not black. I don't even really know what "true" Hip-Hop is if there is such a thing, but I hate it anyway because I'm not a "whigga". I think rock/rap hybrid bands are a travesty because traditional white rock music should not be polluted by rap. Goth/Black Metal is just plain wrong because I don't worship Satan and don't want to go to Hell. All disco music disgusts me because I never took drugs or dressed like a woman at a club. All music not sung in English annoys me (because I don't understand the lyrics and they might be saying stuff about me.) Finally, I don't listen to Jazz or Classical because I'm not middle-aged and my pen-s hasn't fallen off yet. That said, I also realize that I am no expert in any of these genres of music. In addition, I know that for every genre I mentioned, I probably angered hundreds, thousands possibly millions of people who love their music dearly. But I don't care because I simply am not into their music, disliking it on principle. There is nothing they can say, no song they can play that will make me like it or respect it. Sound familiar?

"I do not like today's Pop music because I'm not a stupid preteen sheep that considers MTV the end all be all of musicical taste."

I apologize if I have offended anyone, but I hope I've made my point.

Obviously, the idea behind music of mass appeal is to attract the widest range of tastes, age groups, etc. So, many of us think that Pop music is directly aimed at us. In addition, because most of us grew up with the popular music of our respective decades, we feel ourselves experts, of sorts, in the subject of "Pop" in general. IMO, these two facts are part of the reason many feel they have a "right" to talk about current Pop music, even if they don't listen to it, even if they hate it, even if they base most of their opinions on second hand reports or cursory samplings of the music. (I submit to everyone that music is inherently subjective. Thus, if you do not like a certain type of music, it is impossible for you to give it anything other than a cursory listen.) However, I believe that if you do not listen to Pop music and, in fact, despise it on principle, then it was not meant for you. I'd wager that a good many of the people who are so vehemently opposed to Britney Spears and her ilk did not listen to the popular music of their day while growing up. In fact, they might even have gone out of their way to search for something different, better (to them). Now, I'm not saying this is true of everyone, and I'm not directing this comment at anyone in particular, but if this is true, then it is highly doubtful if the popular music of today was ever meant to appeal to you. I think we can all atleast agree that Pop music isn't out to win converts. No one at Jive Records is going to the next Ozzy show to hand out copies of Britney's new album. (Although, that would be quite a sight. I hear his children are fans of hers

)

Final Note:
Contrary to what you might believe by now, I'm not some Pop Crusader trying to spread the gospel of Britney

I won't pretend like I haven't sneered at Green Day fans, or made a few Limp Bizkit groupies cry (all in good fun, of course

) I even got a few chuckles reading the posts. But when just pure hatred came out, well, that's just plain ugly. You can be sure I'll be much more careful about what reviews I post from now on. I also have a feeling fewer Pop albums will get mentioned in the future. If that means someone won or feels "cool", well, hope it makes them happy. Cause it just brings me down

To end it on a happier note, let us all remember the eeirly inspiring words of Mr. Lewis Skolnick - "There's a whole lot more of us than there are of you."

Ok, now where's my complimentary Pi ? (man, I've waited years to use that line

)

 

[dhwilkin]

Quote:

beavisclone said... I'll be first to admit that I hate a lot of music. (I love a lot more than I hate, but there's a LOT I simply can't stand.) I do not like Country because I'm not a redneck. I can't stand Rap because I'm not black. I don't even really know what "true" Hip-Hop is if there is such a thing, but I hate it anyway because I'm not a "whigga". I think rock/rap hybrid bands are a travesty because traditional white rock music should not be polluted by rap. Goth/Black Metal is just plain wrong because I don't worship Satan and don't want to go to Hell. All disco music disgusts me because I never took drugs or dressed like a woman at a club. All music not sung in English annoys me (because I don't understand the lyrics and they might be saying stuff about me.) Finally, I don't listen to Jazz or Classical because I'm not middle-aged and my pen-s hasn't fallen off yet. That said, I also realize that I am no expert in any of these genres of music. In addition, I know that for every genre I mentioned, I probably angered hundreds, thousands possibly millions of people who love their music dearly. But I don't care because I simply am not into their music, disliking it on principle. There is nothing they can say, no song they can play that will make me like it or respect it.

LMAO! Ah me, that was a funny rant. If even half of that was true, we definitely have different musical tastes, but still...

Quote:

beavisclone said... Contrary to what you might believe by now, I'm not some Pop Crusader trying to spread the gospel of Britney

Good job, you just offended all the soul music fans! BTW, if this gospel is illustrated, I want a copy.

Quote:

beavisclone said... You can be sure I'll be much more careful about what reviews I post from now on.

In all seriousness, please don't do that. I cannot stress enough how much the "your music isn't music" line of thought annoys me. Well, maybe not the line of thought, but the means of expressing it. It's one of the main reasons why I think the number of audiophiles seems to not really be growing. I bet a large number of young people who probably would be interested are immediately turned off when they go to ask for advice on equipment or whatever, then get flamed to oblivion when they dare to mention they like mainstream music. I don't care if you think a person's musical taste sucks... it's their opinion, and therefore cannot be logically proven wrong. If you want to do something positive, how about getting that person to listen to some of your music? Even if they don't like it or get it or whatever, you have exposed them to something new, and it may influence them later. That's a win-win situation, people.

Quote:

beavisclone said... Ok, now where's my complimentary Pi ? (man, I've waited years to use that line )

Eh?

 

[pigmode]

beavisclone,
Don't know what to tell you dude. It's music, and people take it personally.
Oh, I had time to d/l some of the songs you listed, and a couple are definitely keepers. It's the kind of cool stuff dancers choose for their sets.


Todd R,
I agree to a certain extent, but I'm not as sure about it as you. If you go back to the time of the Beatles to Led Zeppelin to say, Aerosmith, the times were different. The genre was younger, and there was much more room for creative expression, for innovation. There is still a lot of talent out there, but it's just channeled differently.

BTW, Donnie Osmond is actually from the good ole' days you were talking about, as was The Partridge Family, The Monkees, and The Archies. Remember?

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

You can be sure I'll be much more careful about what reviews I post from now on.

Beavisclone, please don't. Post what you want, about the artists you want. That goes for everyone else, as well.

In the future, there will probably be a bit more moderation in the Music forum, since some people can't seem to keep their musical snobbery to themselves. We want this forum to be a place for discussion of music -- ALL music. And discussion means intelligent discourse, not stupid comments and insulting other peoples' tastes.

Sorry if that sounded blunt, but why beat around the bush? The worst thing that can happen on Head-Fi is for people to not feel comfortable posting. And some of the comments made in this thread served no purpose whatsoever other than to discourage people from starting similar threads in the future.

 

[Beagle]

I don't OWN all 10,00 at the moment, but I have purchased more that 10,000 albums since 1975.


MacDEF, you seem to feel that this is a forum for people to express their opinions, yet you complain and criticize when we do. Honesty is not always pretty. Your back goes up when someone expresses not to be a fan of something you like or prefers something else and states why. They are still just expressing their opinion. I get the feeling if you moderated and censored or deleted posts from anyone who didn't agree with you, it would become quite a dull, undynamic and emotionless affair. I love when people get down and dirty to get to the brass tacks. It shows passion and honesty.

 

[coolvij]

Beagle: It's one thing stating your opinion. It's a whole different thing to put down PEOPLE because they state they have a liking for a type of music.....

To those who know who they are: please stop crapping.....

And....beavisclone - I started my thread in the hope this thread would stay clean. Sorry, man..it didn't work out to well. I did try, tho....

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

MacDEF, you seem to feel that this is a forum for people to express their opinions, yet you complain and criticize when we do. Honesty is not always pretty. Your back goes up when someone expresses not to be a fan of something you like or prefers something else and states why. They are still just expressing their opinion.

Beagle, it has nothing to do with "expressing opinions." Not liking a particular artist is fine, especially if you can actually explain that dislike in a way that facilitates discussion. The problem I have, and other moderators have as well, is when people attempt to destroy someone's attempt at thoughtful discussion by posting rude statements that provide no content except for mockery or insult. That's not being "honest;" it's being inconsiderate.

The other problem is the context. If this had been a thread originally dedicated to the state of pop music today, or discussing people's opinions about pop music, your "crap" comment, and those of a few other people, would have been a bit more relevant. But Beavisclone posted a thread for people who like Britney Spears, in order to discuss the new album. Why do people feel the need to come in here and tell Beavisclone that Britney Spears sucks? If people don't like Britney Spears, they should ignore the thread. Or start another thread about how much Britney Spears sucks

A number of the posts in this thread were the equivalent of "thread crapping." In addition to being rude, the posts raise concerns about the ability to keep this forum a place people can discuss ANY type of music. Beavisclone's final post in the thread was: "I'll be much more careful about what reviews I post from now on." Is that how we want people to feel about their attempts at discussion?

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it -- no one wants to "censor" or "moderate" posts. We just want to keep Head-Fi a community where people feel welcome, where discussion is civil and thoughtful, and where all tastes (or lack thereof, in the opinion of some

) can be discussed. I'm not "complaining and criticizing;" I'm just asking people to have a bit of consideration for others.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Why do people feel the need to come in here and tell Beavisclone that Britney Spears sucks?

Probably for the same reason the government feels it necessary to warn us of possible terrorist ataacks. But I will stay out of threads of "artists" who I feel are detrimental to the cause of good music.

 

[Braver]

yeah, do that

some people need to get of their high horses some times, and no doubt that includes me as well. I still have my opinion about pop music like Britney, but I think it's kinda cool when a guy just comes in here and "admits" he likes the music. not only does it take some guts to do so, it's a lesson to all of us.

Quote:

Probably for the same reason the government feels it necessary to warn us of possible terrorist ataacks

LMAO! Beagle for president! "every country guilty of providing shelter for pop "artists" will get a load of bombs dropped upon em! wanted: dead or alive!"

Quote:

"artists" who I feel are detrimental to the cause of good music. [/B]

oh give me a break man. everybody gets adifferent kick out of music. what's that good cause supposed to be other than having a good time listening to music that you like? c'mon!

 

[KR...]

I was only half kidding with my post, so why does it keep getting brought up?

He can listen to whatever he wants... as long as he uses headphones