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Breaking-in headphones, the final verdict!
Apr 1, 2018 at 7:09 PM Post #286 of 685
tansand said:
So, you think the chance that this data shows headphone break in is less than 50%?

You believe the theory of headphone break in is not supported by this data?

Noted!
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It isn't something that can be assigned an arbitrary percentage. It is "yes or no". I said "no" and provided some reasons for my opinion. I think my position was made crystal clear. Are you still unsure? If I see a flash of light in the sky, I don't automatically assume it is evidence to support intelligent life visiting from another planet. It would seem rather shallow and ridiculous to ask anyone if they thought there was a 50% chance the flash of light supported the idea that E.T. flew by to stir up trouble.
 
Apr 1, 2018 at 7:11 PM Post #287 of 685
tansand said:
This wasn't just for sonitus mirus, you can feel free to answer too, "bigshot".
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You want a percentage of probability? What would I base that estimate on? I think you would have to do further measurements, increase the sample size and eliminate some variables to be able to find out what causes the variation in the measurements. Anything else would just be a guess. One example isn't enough to base a conclusion or probability of a conclusion on.

I've heard a lot of people who do measurements of headphones comment on how there's lots of room for variation in the results. Pads are one way. If you clamp the measuring device onto the ear cup and it depresses the pad over time, the distance and orientation of the measurement device can cause big differences in the measurements. I don't do this stuff myself so I don't know the specifics. But a few months ago there was a guy in here who was talking about ways to try to make more consistent ways to measure headphones. He might know better.

I do know that how I seat headphones on my head makes a big difference to the way they sound to my ears. I used to not believe that pads made much of a difference because the materials didn't have enough space to absorb or reflect sound, but I do think altering the orientation of the drivers does. It's very likely that pads might affect that. I've rethought my opinion on that. I wasn't considering how pads affect how the driver sits on the ear.
 
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Apr 1, 2018 at 7:16 PM Post #289 of 685
It isn't something that can be assigned an arbitrary percentage. It is "yes or no". I said "no" and provided some reasons for my opinion. I think my position was made crystal clear. Are you still unsure? If I see a flash of light in the sky, I don't automatically assume it is evidence to support intelligent life visiting from another planet. It would seem rather shallow and ridiculous to ask anyone if they thought there was a 50% chance the flash of light supported the idea that E.T. flew by to stir up trouble.
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OK, so now we've gone from "the final verdict" to "it's like if I said I saw ET". :D

Solipsism rears it's ugly head yet again, right bigshot?
 
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Apr 1, 2018 at 7:28 PM Post #290 of 685
tansand said:
Solipsism rears it's ugly head yet again, right bigshot?
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Solipsism is related to subjectivity. It would be solipsist to interpret every bit of evidence to try to force it to prove a preconceived conclusion. It would be solipsist to cherry pick one measurement and focus on that just because it tends to indicate one's preconceived conclusion. To be honest, I don't care if burn in exists or if it doesn't. I'd just like to see a pattern of clear evidence to prove it if it does. In fact, if burn in does exist, I would want to see if there was a way to prevent it and it would change the way I evaluate my headphones because I want them to stay in precise calibration. Thankfully, with my Oppo PM-1s, it isn't an issue. They didn't change at all after using them for a while. They still sound exactly the same as when I got them. They are as close to perfect as I've ever heard.
 
Apr 1, 2018 at 7:35 PM Post #291 of 685
I think headphone break-in exists, and the guy's tests showed it, but he didn't want to admit it for some reason. Perhaps he's never heard it, and was looking to prove it didn't exist, with great triumph and accolades, but got disappointed.
 
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Apr 1, 2018 at 7:39 PM Post #292 of 685
If it exists there must be other examples that show it. Maybe another test would have fewer question marks. Do you know of any more?

If someone performed a test with a specific result in mind so they would get famous, I wouldn't trust their results either way it would come out. Science is about discovering the truth, not discovering what we want the truth to be. I'm open to it either way. I've dug around and can't find much evidence that burn in exists. Maybe it exists in badly designed or defective headphones the way some amps and players might sound different if they are badly designed or defective.
 
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Apr 1, 2018 at 7:41 PM Post #293 of 685
I saw a UFO one time. there was a small light in the sky, like a tiny star. But it was moving, so I assumed it was a sattelite. Then it's trajectory curved quite a bit, and it dimmed and disappeared.

Visitors.
 
Apr 1, 2018 at 7:43 PM Post #294 of 685
If it exists there must be other examples that show it. Maybe another test would have fewer question marks. Do you know of any more?
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Why would I need another? I've 'heard' it, and this guy found it, his tests indicate it, and then he tried to play it off. That says that both he and I now know that break-in happens. Do you know of a test that disproves it?

:D
 
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Apr 1, 2018 at 7:47 PM Post #296 of 685
Oh no! Now you're going down the solipsist route! You don't want to look for evidence just to prove your subjective impression. You want to look at ALL the evidence and see what ALL of it indicates, regardless of what your impression is. Your impression is just a clue to figure out what questions to ask to come up with the answer. You should be interested in finding out if burn in exists with all subjectivity and all variables controlled. You should also want to see a pattern in a fairly large sample to indicate that it isn't just a one off with defective headphones.

If you want to prove your subjective impressions by cherry picking data, you are in the wrong forum for that. The rest of HeadFi is more open to that sort of thing than we are here.
 
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Apr 1, 2018 at 7:51 PM Post #298 of 685
Your impression is just a clue to figure out what questions to ask to come up with the answer. You should be interested in finding out if burn in exists with all subjectivity and all variables controlled. You should also want to see a pattern in a fairly large sample to indicate that it isn't just a one off with defective headphones.
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I'm generally interested, but not greatly motivated. Mine are broken in, like the K701's are. Would you say there's a 50% or greater chance that the K701's tested sound different now then at the beginning of the testing, given the graphs posted?

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