Bose & Publishing Frequency Response...

Sep 11, 2008 at 9:30 PM Post #16 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioDwebe /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Don't make too much of frequency responses. And as for the Denon, there is no way it can have that frequency response. So what's better: No frequency response listed or an outright lie?


denon says 5hz for the d5k 2hz lower than stax claims for the 02!

Sennheisser says 10hz as the low cutoff on the HD650.

should we talk about beyerdynamic?

You dont know how they test, and the test conditions could allow them to verify this frequency response.
 
Sep 11, 2008 at 11:36 PM Post #17 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by Quake120 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hmm, it definitely could be a lie. According to the PDF Product Sheet on Denon's website, the AH-D1001s have a frequency response of: 8Hz - 37KHz

Here is a link:
http://www.usa.denon.com/AH-D5000_20..._1004_rev1.pdf

If they really ARE lying about their frequency response, they aren't much better than Bose then because Bose lies about its sound quality, Denon lies about its frequency responses. All marketing ploys to trick people into buying their equipment.
If they AREN'T lying, that is a pretty amazing response. I'll give Denon the benefit of the doubt...


Why would DENON be lying?

On Sennheisers website, they say the FR of the 650 is 39500hz, thats more than 37Khz, are they lying too?
 
Sep 12, 2008 at 12:56 AM Post #18 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by Quake120 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Wait, the satellites have a FR of 280hz to 13.3khz (I assume you meant kilohertz and not hertz there)? Considering I just saw that Denon 1001s have a response of 8hz to 35,000hz, that is pretty damn pathetic. Then again, that is a satellite and not a pair of headphones, but still. Got any more? I actually laughed when I saw those figures.


Why are you comparing satellites to headphones? That doesn't make any sense at all. Even the world's best compact satellite speakers have specs that aren't that impressive. You have to look at the frequency range of the sub combined with the satellite. Bose is bad because there is a hole in the frequency response played through the sub AND satellites, not the fact that the frequency response spec of the satellite compared to a headphone spec isn't impressive.

Headphone specs are pretty much useless anyway. You don't know how they measured that, and what the shape of the frequency response is like. Pretty much every manufacturer has their own way of measuring their headphones. Even the worst sounding headphones have decent FR specs. With headphones, anything below 20Hz is pretty much useless because you can't hear that anyway. And most all headphones can resolve 16Khz tones before dropping off too much, which is enough to cover the range of almost any real instrument and vocal chord.

If you are going to start a thread bashing Bose, at least have an understanding of how to interpret frequency response specs properly. The numbers by themselves don't mean much, you have to look at the shape of the frequency response chart, and how the shape correlates to what you actually hear.

Read this to understand a bit about headphone frequency response
http://www.soundstage.com/gettingtec...ical200409.htm
 
Sep 12, 2008 at 1:19 AM Post #19 of 42
So it's ok for Bose not to show their FR? They can't even 'lie' like the others? Something is fishy.. & Why is telling the truth 'bashing'... Am I bashing Stalin if I say he was mean & cruel? Some defenders would.
 
Sep 12, 2008 at 4:46 AM Post #20 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif
denon says 5hz for the d5k 2hz lower than stax claims for the 02!

Sennheisser says 10hz as the low cutoff on the HD650.

should we talk about beyerdynamic?

You dont know how they test, and the test conditions could allow them to verify this frequency response.


Regardless of how any manufacture test their product, how can a headphone produce a sound at 5 hertz?!?! I don't know of any loudspeaker that'll produce that frequency, much less a headphone.

What's it do, send some sort of vibrations into your skull?

And secondly, once you get below about 20 hertz, which is at the lowest end of human hearing (I believe), you're talking about "feeling" the frequency rather than actually "hearing" it.

So I don't see how any headphone can produce that range of sound.
 
Sep 12, 2008 at 4:55 AM Post #21 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Why would DENON be lying?

On Sennheisers website, they say the FR of the 650 is 39500hz, thats more than 37Khz, are they lying too?


Yes. I think it's marketing hype.
 
Sep 12, 2008 at 5:11 AM Post #22 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioDwebe /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Regardless of how any manufacture test their product, how can a headphone produce a sound at 5 hertz?!?! I don't know of any loudspeaker that'll produce that frequency, much less a headphone.

What's it do, send some sort of vibrations into your skull?

And secondly, once you get below about 20 hertz, which is at the lowest end of human hearing (I believe), you're talking about "feeling" the frequency rather than actually "hearing" it.

So I don't see how any headphone can produce that range of sound.


*Facepalm*

Just because you cannot hear it doesn't mean that the headphone cannot produce that frequency of sound. Is it meaningful to hear sound at below 20Hz? Does Denon aim to produce sound below 20Hz for audiophiles to hear? No, but this is just a measure that the Denons have really deep bass and can go really low, beyond the limit of human hearing. Unlike the Boses.

I agree that graphs and statistics are useless, but don't accuse manufacturers of lying without anything to back your statement.
 
Sep 12, 2008 at 5:17 AM Post #23 of 42
Someone who directly calls another a liar, and many others by the fact that they are making a very similar statement should have some solid evidence to support their accusations.

if you allow the same 12db or more tolerances that some MFRs allow in the 20-20k range, im QUITE confident that some of the guys i posted above could hit their claimed low-frequency.
Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioDwebe /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Regardless of how any manufacture test their product, how can a headphone produce a sound at 5 hertz?!?! I don't know of any loudspeaker that'll produce that frequency, much less a headphone.


SPL contestants REGULARLY use subsonic frequencies if they think they can get a few more DB out of the system at 10hz than 20. They very often can and do. does it mean anything for the SPL at 20 or more importantly 80-hz: of course not. but this is why there are unlimited, restricted, and SQ classes at penis waving audio contests. Quite a bit of posted specifications are nothing more than penis waving, i agree, but the ir claims can probably be supported.

The fact that the human ear is absurdly non-linear below (not even as low as) 80-hz, and dosnt hear almost anything on the average below about 20hz dosnt mean that the drivers are not capable of producing these frequencies. There has been a school of thought in audio reproduction for QUITE some time that says that audio is more than the 20-20Khz that people can hear in a tone-test. The whole premise of a DC coupled amp that is linear from DC to 100KHZ (if not more) is a reflection of this. An octave or 2 of headroom above and below audible range is no different from "power headroom" rules of thumb. Running an amp AT rated power is generally a BAD idea (unless it was under-rated from the factory, but except for rare cases this dosnt happen.) and people will give themselves AT LEAST 6-12db of power headroom, running a speaker AT its rated frequency extreme is also pretty rough.
 
Sep 12, 2008 at 5:45 AM Post #24 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Someone who directly calls another a liar, and many others by the fact that they are making a very similar statement should have some solid evidence to support their accusations.

if you allow the same 12db or more tolerances that some MFRs allow in the 20-20k range, im QUITE confident that some of the guys i posted above could hit their claimed low-frequency.

SPL contestants REGULARLY use subsonic frequencies if they think they can get a few more DB out of the system at 10hz than 20. They very often can and do. does it mean anything for the SPL at 20 or more importantly 80-hz: of course not. but this is why there are unlimited, restricted, and SQ classes at penis waving audio contests. Quite a bit of posted specifications are nothing more than penis waving, i agree, but the ir claims can probably be supported.

The fact that the human ear is absurdly non-linear below (not even as low as) 80-hz, and dosnt hear almost anything on the average below about 20hz dosnt mean that the drivers are not capable of producing these frequencies. There has been a school of thought in audio reproduction for QUITE some time that says that audio is more than the 20-20Khz that people can hear in a tone-test. The whole premise of a DC coupled amp that is linear from DC to 100KHZ (if not more) is a reflection of this. An octave or 2 of headroom above and below audible range is no different from "power headroom" rules of thumb. Running an amp AT rated power is generally a BAD idea (unless it was under-rated from the factory, but except for rare cases this dosnt happen.) and people will give themselves AT LEAST 6-12db of power headroom, running a speaker AT its rated frequency extreme is also pretty rough.


Uhmmmm....

Okay. Way over my head. I'm sure you probably explained it, but I can't figure it out. Explain to me how a headphone can produce those claimed frequencies. And pretend that you're explaining this to a 10 year old.
 
Sep 12, 2008 at 6:26 AM Post #25 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioDwebe /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Uhmmmm....

Okay. Way over my head. I'm sure you probably explained it, but I can't figure it out. Explain to me how a headphone can produce those claimed frequencies. And pretend that you're explaining this to a 10 year old.


How about you explain instead why a headphone cannot produce those claimed frequencies? Why can't Denon produce them without some good engineering?
 
Sep 12, 2008 at 6:29 AM Post #26 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioDwebe /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Regardless of how any manufacture test their product, how can a headphone produce a sound at 5 hertz?!?! I don't know of any loudspeaker that'll produce that frequency, much less a headphone.

What's it do, send some sort of vibrations into your skull?

And secondly, once you get below about 20 hertz, which is at the lowest end of human hearing (I believe), you're talking about "feeling" the frequency rather than actually "hearing" it.

So I don't see how any headphone can produce that range of sound.


Just because Humans cant lift 500 KG doesnt mean Robotic hands cant do it...same goes about Headphones... if it werent true how do doctors do ultrasound? they dont actually scream at 40k hz frequency... they use machines.

LOL ..am i actually explaining this?
 
Sep 12, 2008 at 6:38 AM Post #27 of 42
Well my GF bought me a pair of Quiet Comfort headphones 7 years ago, and they are by far the best headphones for travelling I've ever had. Not perfect, but then neither is the acoustics in a plane at 35,000 feet!
BOSE make audio for the masses, and it sells, if you don't like there gear, then don't buy it. BUT don't assume it all crap either, as you can't fool all the people all the time!
 
Sep 12, 2008 at 6:41 AM Post #28 of 42
I honestly don't understand why people bash Bose.. I've noticed the majority that do bash them have never even touched them, let alone test them.

The "over the ear" (original...) TriPorts are quite good. They have decent highs and a decent mid. Where they tend to be poor is in the base, where it's muddy. I was very pleased with mine. BUT only AFTER they were burned in. My Tri's have about 6,000 hours on them and sound awesome.

Only until recently did I discover Sennheiser.
 
Sep 12, 2008 at 6:42 AM Post #29 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTony /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well my GF bought me a pair of Quiet Comfort headphones 7 years ago, and they are by far the best headphones for travelling I've ever had. Not perfect, but then neither is the acoustics in a plane at 35,000 feet!
BOSE make audio for the masses, and it sells, if you don't like there gear, then don't buy it. BUT don't assume it all crap either, as you can't fool all the people all the time!


And may I ask what are the travelling headphones you had so far?
 
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