[rorymacneill09]

Those are beautiful speakers. How's the quality of bass, nice and clear?

 

[MadMatt2600]

 
I am partial to the Dynaudio Contour 1.4. Excellent sound stage with beautiful mids and highs.

 

[darcyb62]

Those are beautiful speakers. How's the quality of bass, nice and clear?

Thanks.

The bass is very good if you respect their limits. I've had friends over and they wouldn't believe me when they asked "where's the sub?" and I said there isn't one. I might add one at some point in time but for now I am extremely happy with them the overall quality of sound they put out from the highs to the lows.

Darcy

 

[rorymacneill09]

I think I've narrowed it down to either the Vapor Audio Cirrus ($3495USD), or the Harbeth Compact 7 ($3599CAD). Any other contenders that I should be looking at?

 

[TurboFC3S]

Hey guys, Darcy sent me the link to this thread ... and since I can't seem to sleep tonight figured I'd reply.
 
I'm the person who builds the Vapor Audio Cirrus, my name is Ryan.  I've been a member here for a long time, just haven't posted in years ... and I'm not here now to try and sell anything.  But I would like to answer questions if there are any. 
 
I know the obvious question is sound, and to address the immediate about how they compare to the Harbeth 7-ES3 ... well, they're a very different speaker than the 'beth.  The Harbeth is very British, warm and musical.  They're easy to listen too, but I think they take the polite approach too far.  I say that not to point fault, but to give an idea of my thoughts on what a perfect speaker should be.  In the end, whatever sound you want is all that matter. 
 
Personally I like a deep window into the recording, I don't feel that detail needs to be smoothed over in order to acheive a non-fatiguing sound.  I like a speaker that has the ability to excite, making relaxing speakers is easy but that reach-out-and-grab you character is much more difficult to accomplish.  When I started design on the Cirrus, the goal was simple ... use the best woofer available, the best tweeter available, build the best cabinet I know how, and spend months finding the perfectly balanced crossover voicing.  Like any speaker the end result is a culmination, not any single part.  But when you listen to a Cirrus, especially in comparison to a Harbeth like the 7-ES3, the first thing you notice is the RAAL tweeter.  It's so much faster and more dynamic that at first it can be a bit startling, and there's layers more macro and micro detail that it's able to reveal vs any dome tweeter.  Before the RAAL I wasn't a ribbon fan, all the Aurum Cantus, Fountek, and Raven ribbons I'd used before were just too delicate sounding, they lacked any dynamic snap ... not the RAAL. 
 
I'm going on now like I often do when talking speakers

  My point is the Harbeth is a great speaker no doubt, just a very polite one.  They're enjoyable, but IMO a bit of a one-trick pony.  My Cirrus I think does it all, it's non-fatiguing while being incredibly detailed and revealing.  It goes very deep and sounds much larger than it is.  It has great dynamic snap, images like crazy, and completely disappears when listening.  I put a ton of work into each pair, fact is I should be charging a LOT more considering the parts cost and man hours involved.  But I have no overhead, and love what I do.  So I just make enough from building them to keep the lights on. 
 
BTW, another Head-fi member is a Vapor Cirrus owner as well - Downsize.  He's been raving about his pair for some time now.  I'll see if he can post here with his thoughts.  In the meantime, I'd be happy to chat more if you all have questions. 

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

Hey guys, Darcy sent me the link to this thread ... and since I can't seem to sleep tonight figured I'd reply.
 
I'm the person who builds the Vapor Audio Cirrus, my name is Ryan.  I've been a member here for a long time, just haven't posted in years ... and I'm not here now to try and sell anything.  But I would like to answer questions if there are any. 
 
I know the obvious question is sound, and to address the immediate about how they compare to the Harbeth 7-ES3 ... well, they're a very different speaker than the 'beth.  The Harbeth is very British, warm and musical.  They're easy to listen too, but I think they take the polite approach too far.  I say that not to point fault, but to give an idea of my thoughts on what a perfect speaker should be.  In the end, whatever sound you want is all that matter. 
 
Personally I like a deep window into the recording, I don't feel that detail needs to be smoothed over in order to acheive a non-fatiguing sound.  I like a speaker that has the ability to excite, making relaxing speakers is easy but that reach-out-and-grab you character is much more difficult to accomplish.  When I started design on the Cirrus, the goal was simple ... use the best woofer available, the best tweeter available, build the best cabinet I know how, and spend months finding the perfectly balanced crossover voicing.  Like any speaker the end result is a culmination, not any single part.  But when you listen to a Cirrus, especially in comparison to a Harbeth like the 7-ES3, the first thing you notice is the RAAL tweeter.  It's so much faster and more dynamic that at first it can be a bit startling, and there's layers more macro and micro detail that it's able to reveal vs any dome tweeter.  Before the RAAL I wasn't a ribbon fan, all the Aurum Cantus, Fountek, and Raven ribbons I'd used before were just too delicate sounding, they lacked any dynamic snap ... not the RAAL. 
 
I'm going on now like I often do when talking speakers

  My point is the Harbeth is a great speaker no doubt, just a very polite one.  They're enjoyable, but IMO a bit of a one-trick pony.  My Cirrus I think does it all, it's non-fatiguing while being incredibly detailed and revealing.  It goes very deep and sounds much larger than it is.  It has great dynamic snap, images like crazy, and completely disappears when listening.  I put a ton of work into each pair, fact is I should be charging a LOT more considering the parts cost and man hours involved.  But I have no overhead, and love what I do.  So I just make enough from building them to keep the lights on. 
 
BTW, another Head-fi member is a Vapor Cirrus owner as well - Downsize.  He's been raving about his pair for some time now.  I'll see if he can post here with his thoughts.  In the meantime, I'd be happy to chat more if you all have questions. 

One question, would you recommend for or against mounting these speakers on the wall as the OP has suggested he will do?
 

 

[TurboFC3S]

Quote:

One question, would you recommend for or against mounting these speakers on the wall as the OP has suggested he will do?
 

I don't recommend against the wall mounting for ANY speakers, even ones "designed" for it.  Wall mounting will always compromise performance somewhat, but the fact is people need to do it sometimes because of their specific living situation.  So either say that's a bad idea and turn up your nose as a manufacturer, or try and work with the customer.
 
What I would do in this case is talk with the customer at length like I do before every build, explain the tradeoffs of wall mounting, and once that's clear give them ideas to minimize the negatives.  There are two things I could do that come to mind immediately.  One would be as thick as possible wall treatments immediately behind where the speaker is mounted.  That would help to minimize the cancellations that will occur from early reflections off the rear wall.  The second thing I'd do is incorporate less Baffle Step Compensation in the crossover.  Since each pair I build is made to order, I can do that.  With the wall being immediately behind the speakers you'll have very little baffle step losses, thus need very little compensation or else the bottom end will sound thick and sluggish.  The Harbeth would be a poor speaker in that application, it's bottom end is already tipped up, put the boundary reinforcement on top of that and it'll sound very unbalanced. 
 
So with the crossover changes you'd have a Cirrus designed for near wall placement ... what if you change your setup later and want to move it out into the room?  Well, the crossover section is designed to be easily removed by the customer and shipped back for upgrades, etc.  So if you reconfigure your placement, just ship the crossover back and I'd change it to the proper balance for that setup.
 

 

[Jack C]

Ryan,
 
Amazing work you do there. I am envious of people who are able to blend together technical excellence with true craftsmanship. 
 
Jack

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

I don't recommend against the wall mounting for ANY speakers, even ones "designed" for it.  Wall mounting will always compromise performance somewhat, but the fact is people need to do it sometimes because of their specific living situation.  So either say that's a bad idea and turn up your nose as a manufacturer, or try and work with the customer.
 
What I would do in this case is talk with the customer at length like I do before every build, explain the tradeoffs of wall mounting, and once that's clear give them ideas to minimize the negatives.  There are two things I could do that come to mind immediately.  One would be as thick as possible wall treatments immediately behind where the speaker is mounted.  That would help to minimize the cancellations that will occur from early reflections off the rear wall.  The second thing I'd do is incorporate less Baffle Step Compensation in the crossover.  Since each pair I build is made to order, I can do that.  With the wall being immediately behind the speakers you'll have very little baffle step losses, thus need very little compensation or else the bottom end will sound thick and sluggish.  The Harbeth would be a poor speaker in that application, it's bottom end is already tipped up, put the boundary reinforcement on top of that and it'll sound very unbalanced. 
 
So with the crossover changes you'd have a Cirrus designed for near wall placement ... what if you change your setup later and want to move it out into the room?  Well, the crossover section is designed to be easily removed by the customer and shipped back for upgrades, etc.  So if you reconfigure your placement, just ship the crossover back and I'd change it to the proper balance for that setup.
 

Can you formulate a suggestion on amplification and the quality of associated equipment for these speakers.  Speakers like these are obviously fine instruments and exist in a high end class.  In my opinion they need associated gear of the same quality to really get the best out of them.  How would you fare the OP's choice of an NAD amp with these speakers?  
 

 

[darcyb62]

Can you formulate a suggestion on amplification and the quality of associated equipment for these speakers.  Speakers like these are obviously fine instruments and exist in a high end class.  In my opinion they need associated gear of the same quality to really get the best out of them.  How would you fare the OP's choice of an NAD amp with these speakers?  
 

I am currently using these speakers with a NAD C355BEE and I think they sound great. My next purchase will be a new DAC. Down the road a bit I might take a foray into the world of tube amplification but I need to manage my wife a bit before I do.

Darcy

 

[TurboFC3S]

 
Quote:

Can you formulate a suggestion on amplification and the quality of associated equipment for these speakers.  Speakers like these are obviously fine instruments and exist in a high end class.  In my opinion they need associated gear of the same quality to really get the best out of them.  How would you fare the OP's choice of an NAD amp with these speakers?  
 

There are plenty of reasonably priced amps that sound fantastic with the Cirrus.  Lately I've been using a couple KT88 based tube integrateds, the Eastern Electric M88 which is just under $2000 and the Ekco EV55SE which is around $2600.  They're both a wonderful match.  The Ekco is 25wpc in Triode mode, and is more than enough power in my 14'x24' room. 
 
I'm not one of those guys that will insist you have to spend $xxxx amount to acheive a certain level of performance.  I've at times had under $500 amps or integrateds in my systems with the Cirrus and been quite happy.  I've used some of the Chinese stuff like Jungson, Xindak, and Bada and they've all performed well.  I've also used a couple really inexpensive Cambridge integrateds, and their flagship 840W amp (which sounds excellent btw).
 
Sure, they do sound better with high end stuff - the Ayon Triton was stunning!  They are revealing enough that they do get better with any upgrade, but they've sounded pretty darn good no matter what I hook them up to. 
 

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

 

There are plenty of reasonably priced amps that sound fantastic with the Cirrus.  Lately I've been using a couple KT88 based tube integrateds, the Eastern Electric M88 which is just under $2000 and the Ekco EV55SE which is around $2600.  They're both a wonderful match.  The Ekco is 25wpc in Triode mode, and is more than enough power in my 14'x24' room. 
 
I'm not one of those guys that will insist you have to spend $xxxx amount to acheive a certain level of performance.  I've at times had under $500 amps or integrateds in my systems with the Cirrus and been quite happy.  I've used some of the Chinese stuff like Jungson, Xindak, and Bada and they've all performed well.  I've also used a couple really inexpensive Cambridge integrateds, and their flagship 840W amp (which sounds excellent btw).
 
Sure, they do sound better with high end stuff - the Ayon Triton was stunning!  They are revealing enough that they do get better with any upgrade, but they've sounded pretty darn good no matter what I hook them up to. 
 

I bet those KT88's sound nice!
 
 

 

[TurboFC3S]

Quote:

I bet those KT88's sound nice!
 
 

I've been very impressed with them both.  Up until then I was pretty much a solid state only guy, but I've been converted.  I was afraid the bottom end wouldn't have the drive and authority I was used too, but even in 25wpc Triode mode, the Ekco has beautiful rich and toneful bass with plenty of drive. 
 

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

I've been very impressed with them both.  Up until then I was pretty much a solid state only guy, but I've been converted.  I was afraid the bottom end wouldn't have the drive and authority I was used too, but even in 25wpc Triode mode, the Ekco has beautiful rich and toneful bass with plenty of drive. 
 

Tubes get a bad rap, usually from people who have never used them.  
 

 

[Jazzyfi]

Totem Model 1 Signature.
 
Awesome speaker. I love it. I have it for more than 3 years and won't trade it for anything else. Combine it with a great amp (nait 5i maybe) and prepare to be amazed.