[marantzfan]

Carver has lots of haters...Most don't even understand the fundamental design theory behind what they are criticizing.

 

[jaycalgary]

Why would they hate him?

 

[pcf]

The winning bid seems reasonable as $7500 wouldn't get you a pair of Ear/Yoshino's  monoblocks. I always like Tim de Paravicini's products in my London days and am still using Ear 843 phono preamp for my vinyl set up.
I would love to hear what this two legends had come up with.

 

[jaycalgary]

The resisters and capacitors in the picture of underneath don't they look like very inexpensive for this level of amps?

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

The resisters and capacitors in the picture of underneath don't they look like very inexpensive for this level of amps?

The point of this amp is not expensive parts, but a unique topology that does not require expensive parts to work well. Thats whats awesome about it.
 
Just because some designs need (and yes, they do) $50 resistors and $200 caps to work dosnt mean that all designs do.

 

[jaycalgary]

Do you really think this amps circuit is really unique or would not improve with higher quality resisters or caps? Maybe parafeed would be considered something unique but
what do you think is so unique about its circuit or even modern? I think it is mostly the giant output transformers and name that they sell it on. Is there even much
cheaper parts than the ones they used under this amp? The amps look amazing in the other areas but wouldn't you agree they skimped out a bit underneath?
 
 

 

[downsize]

I'd like to post about Bob Carver's products, but not about the man. I was neck deep into home, car and professional audio when Mr. Carver was in his heyday the strongest. I had his reps in my store at least 7 or 8 times, always trying to get me to carry Carver products.
 
While Carver had some very instrumental influence on the way high end gear of that period looked and felt, as well as helping bring high end closer to the mainstream, I have never once heard a product from Carver that I would own at any price. Other mid-fi products at the time sounded MUCH better : Adcom, Luxman, ect ...
 
By the time he offered the Sunfire products, he had really went crazy for poor sound to me. The Cinema Grand products are among the brightest, strident, and edgiest gear I have ever heard. .... and his subs ?  Boomy as hell.
 
So in my opinion, Carver products should be considered mid-fi at best.  JMO

 

[Skylab]

I respectfully disagree completely with the above post.  I have a Sunfire Signature II power amp, and I think it sounds terrific.  It delivers gobs of ultra-clean power, and did a much better job driving my B&W Nautilus 800's than a pair of Audio Research monoblocks I had prior to getting the Sunfire.
 
I think Carver is one of the most innovative people who has ever applied their talent to the high-end audio business.
 
 
Also JMO, of course.
 

 

[marantzfan]

As the owner of Carver Amazing Silvers, a Sunfire Classic Tube Pre and a Sunfire 300......I must admit, I think the man is a genius...

 

[downsize]

 
Quote:

I respectfully disagree completely with the above post.  I have a Sunfire Signature II power amp, and I think it sounds terrific.  It delivers gobs of ultra-clean power, and did a much better job driving my B&W Nautilus 800's than a pair of Audio Research monoblocks I had prior to getting the Sunfire.
 
I think Carver is one of the most innovative people who has ever applied their talent to the high-end audio business.
 
 
Also JMO, of course.
 

 
This doesn't actually suprise me Skylab ... I sold B&W in my store, and found the Nautilus line to be very warm and musical speakers. The extra zing from the Carver probably makes a good synergy actually. We sold Krell, which was bright at that time ( circa 1998 ) and the bright Krell gear is what we mated to the B&W speakers at that time. Audio Research has always been warm, so I can see where you would prefer the Sunfire.   JMO  Then again, it could all be due to current demand and delivery. The Nautilus 800s can take a clean 1000 watts per/ch.
 
For further consideration, we also sold Energy Veritas loudspeakers, which were not bright, but insanely revealing and detailed. With those speakers, and other revealing speakers, the Carver gear was unlistenable.

 

[Skylab]

For sure synergy is super-important, and for sure the B&W's need a lot of current delivery.  And I do actually think Energy speakers are bright - so it's all a matter of perspective.
 
But forgetting about whether you like the sound - what Carver absolutely did not do was a bunch of re-hash of the same old designs.  There have been VERY few people who have actually innovated in the modern audio era.  Whether or not you like the results, Carver was a pioneer.

 

[downsize]

Quote:

For sure synergy is super-important, and for sure the B&W's need a lot of current delivery.  And I do actually think Energy speakers are bright - so it's all a matter of perspective.
 
But forgetting about whether you like the sound - what Carver absolutely did not do was a bunch of re-hash of the same old designs.  There have been VERY few people who have actually innovated in the modern audio era.  Whether or not you like the results, Carver was a pioneer.

Agreed sir. Carver did find his own unique way about doing things. I remember his small amplifier rated at 400w/ch. Designed long before Class D or G amps were available. Really put out about a fourth of the power he rated it at, but just goes to show he was already forward thinking with his designs.
 
PS: You talking the newer version of Energy Veritas, or the original Veritas , Model 2.8 $6000 per pair, and very balanced. Not bright at all, just detailed and Class A Stereophile recommended for years. The newer Veritas are trash compared to the original versions.

 

[Skylab]

Yeah it's the newer ones I find really bright.  But some people LOVE them.  Some people love bright, period.  So it's all good.
 
One interesting additional note about Bob Carver - when Carver the man left Carver the company, and started Sunfire, Carver the company went into immediate decline and had zero interesting products after he left.  Sunfire, on the other hand, has ad a slew of interesting and innovative products (again, whether one likes the final result or not).  I want to try a pair of his new ribbon mini-monitors badly - just have nowhere to use them...

 

[subtle]

Quote:

Do you really think this amps circuit is really unique or would not improve with higher quality resisters or caps? Maybe parafeed would be considered something unique but
what do you think is so unique about its circuit or even modern? I think it is mostly the giant output transformers and name that they sell it on. Is there even much
cheaper parts than the ones they used under this amp? The amps look amazing in the other areas but wouldn't you agree they skimped out a bit underneath?
 
 

Basically what your post says is "I know absolutely nothing about circuits or components for building an amplifier in general, however I've seen many other innards of amps with prettier, more colorful, blingtastic looking parts so therefore this amplifier can't possibly sound that good because the innards aren't shiny and big."

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Basically what your post says is "I know absolutely nothing about circuits or components for building an amplifier in general, however I've seen many other innards of amps with prettier, more colorful, blingtastic looking parts so therefore this amplifier can't possibly sound that good because the innards aren't shiny and big."

Win.