[71 dB]

Yeah, this is the other thing I was considering. Will my ears notice any difference? I'm guessing not.

Often people claim to hear a difference (CD quality vs hi-rez), but it is actually placebo effect so those differences tend to disappear in blind listening. The mind plays these tricks on us: If we expect something to sound better (because it is more expensive or has better specs/bigger bitrate etc.) we are likely to hear it that way, but it is an illusion. There is a threshold after which it doesn't make a difference. 44.1 kHz sampling frequency is enough to cover all frequencies we can hear and 48 kHz is definitely enough. In any practical listening scenarious about 80 dB (about 13 bits) of dynamic range is totally enough, so the 16 bits of CD quality are easily enough. Going beyond this range in consumer audio is totally unnecessary (but in music production there are benefits for technical reasons). So, even in the "unfortunate" situation of getting "only" 48 kHz/16 bits downsampled sound you are doing great! If it sounds bad you have the production to blame, not the resolution of the sound.

 

[skhan007]

Often people claim to hear a difference (CD quality vs hi-rez), but it is actually placebo effect so those differences tend to disappear in blind listening. The mind plays these tricks on us: If we expect something to sound better (because it is more expensive or has better specs/bigger bitrate etc.) we are likely to hear it that way, but it is an illusion. There is a threshold after which it doesn't make a difference. 44.1 kHz sampling frequency is enough to cover all frequencies we can hear and 48 kHz is definitely enough. In any practical listening scenarious about 80 dB (about 13 bits) of dynamic range is totally enough, so the 16 bits of CD quality are easily enough. Going beyond this range in consumer audio is totally unnecessary (but in music production there are benefits for technical reasons). So, even in the "unfortunate" situation of getting "only" 48 kHz/16 bits downsampled sound you are doing great! If it sounds bad you have the production to blame, not the resolution of the sound.

This is great- I always learn something new here. I did not know the relationship between bit depth and db, so after reading your comment, I did a search and found this:

“Bit depth also determines how loud a recording can be. For every 1-bit increase, the dynamic range increases by about 6 decibels. Audio CD formats use a bit depth of 16, which equates to 96 dB of dynamic range. If DVD or Blu-ray is used, the sound quality is higher because the bit depth is 24, which gives 144 dB of dynamic range.”

Since my average listening level is about 60 db, I think I’m all set.

 

[skhan007]

Might consider converting your music disks into FLAC files and load them on to a DAP.

Yes, 90% of my music library are my CDs ripped to ALAC files on my MacBook. I’m not an IT/computer savvy guy and don’t know how to extract and save my DVD or Blu Ray audio. Is there a recommendation? I think I’ll need a usb Blu Ray player to hook up to my MacBook.

 

[bigshot]

Your DAC is likely the bottleneck, not the player. But as we’ve all been saying, it doesn’t matter. You aren’t going to get any improvement by using higher data rates. Just don’t worry about it. As long as you hear music, you’re ok.

Playing blue rays on Macs can be problematic. You’re going to have to google that one. I looked it up and decided it wasn’t worth it.

 

[71 dB]

This is great- I always learn something new here. I did not know the relationship between bit depth and db, so after reading your comment, I did a search and found this:

“Bit depth also determines how loud a recording can be. For every 1-bit increase, the dynamic range increases by about 6 decibels. Audio CD formats use a bit depth of 16, which equates to 96 dB of dynamic range. If DVD or Blu-ray is used, the sound quality is higher because the bit depth is 24, which gives 144 dB of dynamic range.”

Since my average listening level is about 60 db, I think I’m all set.

This is kind of correct, but I want to clarify it a little bit:

Your volume knob and amp power dictate how "loud" the sound can be (crappy noisy sound can be loud too). The amount of bits dictate how low the noise floor can be compared to the loudest parts of the music. There will always be noise, but if you can make it quiet enough, you won't hear it and for your ears it is as if the sound was totally noise free.

Technically 24 bit is better than 16 bit, but for your ears the benefits vanish, because it is about how much below the threshold of hearing the noise floor is. Who cares if it is below the threshold anyway? For practical reasons 24 bit audio doesn't even reach it's full potential. Your 24 bit audio recordings have so much noise that they are practically 16-20 bit, so truncating them to 16 bit changes almost nothing! Just one reason why hi-rez consumer audio is a scam.

From the perspective of human hearing 24 bit is not better than 16 bit, because about 13 bits is all we need. Your average listening level is perhaps about 60 dB (sounds reasonable), but the loudest peaks of the music go much higher depending on the type of music. However, the background noise sets another limit: If the background noise is for example 30 dB and you want the peaks of the music to reach 90 dB you need at least 60 dBs (10 bits) of dynamic range which is what vinyl is able to give at its best. Human hearing has a dynamic range of about 120-130 dB from the threshold of hearing to the pain threshold, but this range is not available at the same time! Very loud sounds rise the threshold of hearing and if you want to hear very quiet sounds (0-20 dB) you have to be in a quiet environment such as an unechoic room. So, yes. You are all set!

 

[Davesrose]

I have an Oppo player and I set it to send out PCM instead of bitstream. I have found the closest you can get to plain vanilla formats, the least chance of glitches or lag. I think you have to use bitstream for Atmos though.

You definitely need bitstream for Atmos or DTS:X-3D positional audio is metadata being maintained in bitstream. With my surround setup, I've never had issues keeping everything bitstream (so with streaming 4K content, its Dolby Digital+ for Atmos or TrueHD Atmos for discs). Some early blu-ray discs had PCM surround (Apple TV 4K will also output surround PCM if content isn't Atmos)....but the majority of blu-ray audio is DTS-MA (I do think it funny how DTS was the defacto for HD blu-ray, but Dolby Vision and Atmos are now defactos for 4K content).

 

[Davesrose]

There are a couple of Oppo players on my local craigsist. The 83 (pretty cheap) and the 93 (asking price close to $500!). Curious if the cheaper 83 model would do what I'm looking for.

Yeah, this is the other thing I was considering. Will my ears notice any difference? I'm guessing not.

I have an Oppo blu-ray player with region free board. I have a Panasonic DP-UB820 with my main setup for UHD discs. I'm not really sure how any blu-ray player will be different. You're forcing surround DTS-MA 96KHZ audio to optical: that's not supported over optical, so the player is converting it to stereo (44.1, 48, or 96KHZ is more than likely not going to have any effect).

 

[skhan007]

I have an Oppo blu-ray player with region free board. I have a Panasonic DP-UB820 with my main setup for UHD discs. I'm not really sure how any blu-ray player will be different. You're forcing surround DTS-MA 96KHZ audio to optical: that's not supported over optical, so the player is converting it to stereo (44.1, 48, or 96KHZ is more than likely not going to have any effect).

That makes sense, but I still wonder why LPCM 24/96 music from my DVD-A discs play fine (and read as 24/96 on my DAC's state overview) but LPCM 24/96 music on a Blu Ray shows up as 16/48 or sometimes 24/48 on the DAC? This is all over the same set up with optical connection between the player and DAC.

 

[PurpleAngel]

That makes sense, but I still wonder why LPCM 24/96 music from my DVD-A discs play fine (and read as 24/96 on my DAC's state overview) but LPCM 24/96 music on a Blu Ray shows up as 16/48 or sometimes 24/48 on the DAC? This is all over the same set up with optical connection between the player and DAC.

Best guess, a Blu-ray disk, along with the Blu-ray player, restricts what audio that can be sent thru S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) output, where as the older DVD disk does not have those restrictions.
DVDs and S/PDIF came out long before serious copyright protection was used for disks.
So when a Blu-ray disk is inserted into the player, the player detects it as a Blu-ray and restricts what audio from that disk is sent thru S/PDIF (optical or coaxial).
Your player is telling you (the display) the Blu-ray disk has 24-bit/96k audio tracks, so it's be truthful what there, but still limits S/PDIF output.
Modern HDMI is designed for copy protection, so it's ok to send the Blu-ray disk's 24-bit/96k audio or even 24-bit/192k thru HDMI.
But I'm not the expert, just my best guess.

 

[skhan007]

Best guess, a Blu-ray disk, along with the Blu-ray player, restricts what audio that can be sent thru S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) output, where as the older DVD disk does not have those restrictions.
DVDs and S/PDIF came out long before serious copyright protection was used for disks.
So when a Blu-ray disk is inserted into the player, the player detects it as a Blu-ray and restricts what audio from that disk is sent thru S/PDIF (optical or coaxial).
Your player is telling you (the display) the Blu-ray disk has 24-bit/96k audio tracks, so it's be truthful what there, but still limits S/PDIF output.
Modern HDMI is designed for copy protection, so it's ok to send the Blu-ray disk's 24-bit/96k audio or even 24-bit/192k thru HDMI.
But I'm not the expert, just my best guess.

Thank you- This is making sense to me now.

 

[skhan007]

I really appreciate everyone's input and guidance. I was able to get a solution, after reading about someone with the same issue on a different audio forum. He suggested an HDMI extractor made by Cable Matters. I purchased it for less than $40 and it works perfectly. Now via optical, I'm able to send the extracted audio from the HDMI cable and receive the intended resolution on my DAC. The Blu Ray and DVD-A discs now respectively read as 24/192 or 24/96 on my DAC.

Can I tell a difference, my friend asked me? YES! The screen now says 24/192. These numbers are clearly different than 16/48 or 24/48 as before!

 

[sander99]

With Foobar I can stream music to my Yamaha surround receiver, and in the Foobar settings I can change the text message that scolls sideways over the Yamaha's display. When I changed the message to "Foobar 768 Khz 48 bit PCM audio stream" I heard silky smooth sound like never before!

 

[bigshot]

I got stickers printed up that say "Ultra High Quality" and I stick them on everything I own. The problem is, the dogs keep scratching them off. I guess they're mutts.

 

[Davesrose]

I got stickers printed up that say "Ultra High Quality" and I stick them on everything I own. The problem is, the dogs keep scratching them off. I guess they're mutts.

Maybe you should try "Ludicrous High Quality"....maybe dogs even see plaid.