How about a WAY back person or two....ROD STEWART.
Used to do some great stuff with Jeff Beck and Faces (among others), then found Hollywood and disco. Pleh!
Phil Collins anyone? Helped turn an incredible progressive group into popsters. He's a heck of a drummer tho.
Honorable Mention: Red Hot Chili Peppers. Haven't heard much from the latest CD so I'll reserve judgement, but Californication was no where near their early stuff. Still like em a bunch because they're generally much better than the rest of the commercial stuff one hears on the radio.
As far as Bowie goes, he's sort of the opposite of sell-out. True, he IS a self promoter. That's reasonable/necessary plus it's who he is. But sell out? No. This is the same guy who took off for a while during the mid-late 1970's to help out Iggy Pop. He literally left his band and his projects to go out on tour as Iggy's keyboard player. Amazing sacrifice for a friend.
IMHO, he doesn't produce the same type or the groundbreaking music that he used to. But he's not going for a specific formula that's targeted to a specific audience with the desire to ring up big sales. He's just doing his own thing. Had a chance to listen to Heathen extensively this weekend. This is NOT stuff meant to gain lots of airtime on commercial radio. The fact that he doesn't play his old stuff much in concert again is a testament to his desire to do new (and not necessarily commercial) stuff and not rest on his laurels.
I dont agree with the Metallica call. If you want reasons just ask and ill post them. But i dont think it will amount to much more than a flame fest. Every second metal head reckons they sold out. Its as if it proved your validity to say that.
man, i completely agree with the rod stewart and jeff beck part of your posts. but bowie not a sell out? no way man.
yeah he worked with iggy, lou reed, and a hell of a lot of people. i wouldn't mind seeing him turn back into an exectutive producer by any means (although i have problems with his raw power work) - i loved his late 70s production more than i did his alter ego *****. but nowadays he's not doing anything remotely original. remember this is the same guy that covered waiting for the man and was hugely influenced by the velvet underground, but there's a difference between doing that as a bowl haired geek (when i think he was brilliant) and sitting at a beat machine turning out crap as a geezer. crap is crap, no matter who its marketed to
Matthew-Spaltro,
i agree with your assesment of aerosmith. i don't consider them a sell out since they were never really good.
my #2 pick is the rolling stones. its depressing to me that a lot of my generation think they're aerosmith quality and have only heard post 80s stuff. this was the same group that churned out get yer ya yas out, sticky fingers, and exile on main street for christ's sake. everyone knows they're still touring and pulling off huge press conferences in a lame attempt to be relevant and make money. what's sad is their best stuff (including a lot of black and blue) is still highly relevant today.
blink,
thanks for reviving this old thread. i looked in the music forum and saw i double posted this, zanth and i were talking about doing a poll but we had a hell of a lot more than 20 picks between us. didn't realise when you move on to the poll part the thread is posted.
I haven't kept up with or listened to Metallica in a while. I think most people consider their cross-over-to-sell-out album "Metallica" (the black album, whatever). Puting their motivations for making the album aside for a moment, it was certainly a very successful album. Everything since then though, has it been popular enough to truly constitute selling out? I honestly Load, Reload, etc... did.
SHAman who knew of Head-Fi ten years prior to its existence
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I just noticed this thread...boy in about 5 minutes carlo and I came up with a very very good list. Bowie was our top choice. He sold his copyrights to Sony to fund his multimedia company. Know how? Getting 50 million from Sony then creating Bowie Bonds...which were completely bought up by a single company! 57 million dollars later he starts up his own internet site and just spews out whatever can make him a quick buck. Oh yeah, regarding him NOT playing his old stuff? Crap...you went back on that at his last concert which was played on A&E a month or so ago. During the show he stated that since he is "in it for the fans" he should play what THEY want to hear. Go to a show and you will get at least a few old songs. He is in it for the money. Not the "art of the music."
Aerosmith is a great one, from Pepsi to **** (Britney and the Super Bowl), these guys will do anything for a quick buck. They are second only slightly up above the Stones who release greatest hit album after sludge after commercial pop crap. At over 50...they are saving for some serious cryo...'nuff said.
Some more really good ones are IMO:
U2: As much as it KILLS me to say it....the once anti-soundtrack quartet now will jump at a chance to have their names in the liner notes of summer blockbuster. My only true reservation of placing my favourite band in this category...is that they personify what it si to be a superstar rock band. Always have. So does that make them sellouts? Especially when they do so much good with their money and time? Hmmm, not sure, but I included them to show I am not a hypocrit.
Neil Young: Although his early stuff was fabulous...this man will pump out compilation after greatest hits after crap after crap after crap. I think he personifies running to the bank...
Some that I think are truly exceptional for their honesty even though I hate their music are Limp Bisket and Marilyn Manson. MM has said in interviews more times than I can count: "I play to get paid, if your 14 year old kids want to spend all their money on me, so be it. I give them what they want, they give me what I want." I think that may be verbatim from one interview. LB is close as well as they acknowledge they won't be around for long and they are capitalizing while they can. At least they are upfront about it, and don't think they are true "artists" in the romantic sense of the word. Their stuff is hot right now, it will die out and they will be rolling in it. They don't care...they are rich. Thanks for telling us though. I won't buy your crap...but I respect your honesty.
metallica is another great call. i remember when they came out with the load cd and the back cover showed them with their hair cut nice and short (even had gel in it), smoking cigars, and drinking wine. that was the begining of the end. and then when they started bitching about napster, taking them to court and all. did they really have to put up such a big stink just so they could get paid over and over again. i guess money just begets greed, the more you have the more you want. (look at martha stewert, worth a billion dollars but has to break the law for $200,000)
i think its a real shame that all these once great artists get memorized by money. they give up everything they once worked so hard for; their hearts, their minds, and their souls, just for another dead president. i mean is it worth it?? they're whole being becomes a sham, and like grinch said, everything they worked so hard for disapears into nothing. i dont get it...
wouls also like to throw the foo fighters and greed day up on this list
Phil Collins anyone? Helped turn an incredible progressive group into popsters. He's a heck of a drummer tho.
Took the words of my mouth... But why do you say "helped"? ...FULLY RESPONSIBLE for turning GENESIS into a damn pop band... After Peter Gabriel left everybody thought this was the end of Genesis - and for the progressive rock lovers indeed it was... still, there is one thing to be hold in his favor - he actually saved the band from falling apart...For me, from "THE LAMB LIES DOWN ON BROANWAY" onward, Genesis was a dead band.
The same happened (to e lesser extent perhaps) to a lot of great progressive/metal bands:
EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER after BRAIN SALAD SURGERY(OK-let's give them the benefit of the doubt for "Welcome Back My Friends to the Show That never Ends and " Works (Vol. 1 & Vol. 2) - I personally wouldn't... )
QUEENSRYCHE after EMPIRE
YES after RELAYER
JETHRO TULL after THE MINSTREL IN THE GALLERY(some would say after HEAVY HORSES)
DEEP PURPLE after MACHINE HEAD
...and many more progressive rock bands that before actually turning back their souls to the Maker died a shamefull "creativity death"(sorry, is that english?).
A British ingredient in our rockin' international gumbo.
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The Eagles are such lame asses that it's unbelievable.
On the one hand they are a fine bunch of musicians and singer-songwriters.
But... anybody who takes an interest in this music will know that what the Eagles did was take the best of all the really fine music being produced by the likes of:
Linda Ronstadt
Gram Parsons
Poco
Buffalo Springfield
Crosby Stills and Nash
Neil Young
Mike Nesmith
Clarence White
Grateful Dead (Workingmans Dead / American Beauty Era)
Dillards
Byron Berline et al
They copied it, polished it up some (and in doing so, lost most of the feeling) and put it out as new material and made a mint out of it, when the guy's that pioneered it played it in all the clubs for years, barely eeking out an existance got no recognition for redefining the line between country and rock.
Personally I find that listening to the Eagles just makes me mad and I often end up just switching it off and listening to 'real deal'
By the end of '70s the Eagles couldn't stand each other and it's been said in inteviews with them that they were offering each other out whilst on stage, and then having punch ups right after the shows. They couldn't stand each other.
In 1994? they were given a deal by MTV to reform and record the now legendary "Hell Freezes Over" live album so much loved by HiHi Reviewers. Even though they hadn't spoken in years they were able put behind them all the bad feelings to be able to make a fast buck. It's sickening!
Sound As Ever.
Enjoying a magical moment listening to ALCHEMY - DIRE STRAITS on Vinyl
Played back on Rega Planar 3 >-- EAR 834p >-- Sugden Headmaster >-- Stock HD600s
carlo: I guess it depends on your definition of selling out.
My definition of a sell-out: 1.) producing music using a specific formula that is purely targeted to a specific market with the desire to ring up big sales. 2.) relying on past success/images to "market" oneself or their band (e.g., Aerosmith plus Brittany at the Superbowl... you can tell it's a sell out by the way one's skin crawls when one see it).
Does Bowie fit into this definition? IMHO no, not entirely. He may not be producing music that has the same impact. But that doesn't mean he's sold out. Maybe just more an issue of being spent musically. OK, he's appearing in ads for satellite radio. But the other issues with raising money are more business related than art related. I suppose there are a lot of artists that have periods of their life that have more impact than others.
ArChaos: The reason I chose the word "helped" was that the other factor was the loss of Peter Gabriel. Don't think Phil would have been able to take over with Peter still around.
BTW: Totally agree with the rest of the post... but I have to admit that I like Yes, Going For the One.
I think the definition of a sell-out is when a band/artist becomes more concerned about maintaining their status as stars than about the music. It can also happen to artists where promoting the music becomes as or more important than the music itself. As a result, the music usually suffers. U2 and Metallica fit the bill for me.
And the example of the Hell Freezes Over record is a superb example of a sellout. I can understand bands of marginal talent that are broke and need money going back to the well one more time, but all the guys in the Eagles have got to have decent cash, enough to where the reunion record wasn't really necessary.
I don't define Eminem and Limp Bizkit and Britney Spears ad nauseum as sell-outs because from the beginning they were about image before music.
Now let it be known that I like pop music, and I have no moral problem with artists that write songs to reach the widest audience possible. Music isn't strictly a personal exploration, one of its most powerful uses is as a way to communicate with a very wide audience to bring people together. Some people that you may define as sell-outs like Rage Against the Machine IMO were using the very visible platform of a major label to get their point across to the largest audience possible. Rage never once flinched in their attacks on the status quo.
Originally posted by carlo yeah he worked with iggy, lou reed, and a hell of a lot of people. i wouldn't mind seeing him turn back into an exectutive producer by any means (although i have problems with his raw power work) - i loved his late 70s production more than i did his alter ego *****. but nowadays he's not doing anything remotely original. remember this is the same guy that covered waiting for the man and was hugely influenced by the velvet underground, but there's a difference between doing that as a bowl haired geek (when i think he was brilliant) and sitting at a beat machine turning out crap as a geezer. crap is crap, no matter who its marketed to
Sounds to me like you just don't care for his music. You may not like the stuff he puts out now, but that doesn't make him a sell-out. Bowie was a sell-out during the mid-late 80's, and he admitted it. Since then he has made music he wants to make, regardless of record sales. That doesn't sound like much of a sell-out to me. Heathen is extremely un-commercial.
Using a drum machine does not make you a sell-out.
(e.g., Aerosmith plus Brittany at the Superbowl... you can tell it's a sell out by the way one's skin crawls when one see it).
nice.
man, i have no retort to that. i concede to your excellent argument in regards to aerosmith.
geist,
i agree a hell of a lot of really inventive people use drum machines, i just don't think bowie is one of them. it seems you and i see his current/recent stuff very differently.
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