[LisaShayBrown]

Arguing that 4'33" is music is absurd.

exactly. The meaning of MUSIC is vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony, to quote just one definition.

arguing that that piece is music is as absurd as arguing gregorio is not full of bs.

 

[Davesrose]

exactly. The meaning of MUSIC is vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony, to quote just one definition.

arguing that that piece is music is as absurd as arguing gregorio is not full of bs.

Do you have to keep pooping on this thread?

 

[gregorio]

Some of those people you mention were excellent musicians!

Not according to you, so self-contradiction is a quality argument is it? (“the quality of the arguments will eventually reveal who is more correct”).

This is what you stated: “I work with artists. They don't tolerate artistic frauds. They work hard at creating, and when they see someone trying to cheat the system, it offends them.” - As you’ve repeatedly asserted Cage and 4’33” is a fraud/cheat, ergo those who do tolerate 4’33” are cannot be artists, let alone great musicians.

to quote just one definition.

Exactly, to quote just one definition!

arguing that that piece is music is as absurd as arguing gregorio is not full of bs.

Arguing on the basis of just one definition (when there are other valid definitions) is both BS and ignorant. So well done demonstrating BOTH yet again!

G

 

[Ryokan]

That was because of his personality primarily, not his artistry. We see that today too. People get focused on the person, not the art.

It was because of his ultra real and dark style of painting subjects that hadn't been shown that way before.

 

[bigshot]

Dave’s rose, You can do all that before a concert starts and not waste five minutes on it. I doubt if 4’33” has been performed more than a half dozen times. Gregorio must be speaking of it’s wonders based on reports by snake oil salesmen.

Gregorio has turned into Margaret Dumont. I like the way he sputters and blinks in befuddlement!

 

[bigshot]

It was because of his ultra real and dark style of painting subjects that hadn't been shown that way before.

Also because he used well known prostitutes to model for Mary.

 

[Davesrose]

It was because of his ultra real and dark style of painting subjects that hadn't been shown that way before.

Whoa....since this is in regards to Caravaggio, we must remember that artists during this time were successful if they had notable commissions or also had a total school of. The paintings we know of Caravaggio is that he was really successful in Naples. I don't know if there was a time that art critics looked down on him, but he had successful commissions during his life, and at least in my art history classes, he was always referenced as another stage in tenebrism.

 

[sander99]

A long time ago I read a definition of music that I liked very much (I thought it was by dutch composer Louis Andriessen, but after failing to find any reference to it with google I am not sure anymore).
It was something like this:
"Sound is music, and silence is music."
(Of course that does not mean that everything that fits above definition is good music.)

 

[Davesrose]

Also because he used well known prostitutes to model for Mary.

Yet churches commissioned him because they were so impressed with his style.

 

[bigshot]

I think that quote was by the Norwegian composer who composed the concert piece The Sounding Silence. I can look it up if you are interested in the name.

 

[Davesrose]

Dave’s rose, You can do all that before a concert starts and not waste five minutes on it. I doubt if 4’33” has been performed more than a half dozen times. Gregorio must be speaking of it’s wonders based on reports by snake oil salesmen.

Gregorio has turned into Margaret Dumont. I like the way he sputters and blinks in befuddlement!

I don't know....I don't have any personal gain in this argument, and I'm trying to be an intermediate between you two As much as you poopoo Warhol or other modernists, they're a lot different than 4'33". I don't know how often 4'33" is performed. I'm sure it hasn't been performed at Atlanta's Fox because it does popular music or off Broadway (Prince's last concert was there). It'd just think that if I listened to it in the Fox Balcony, I'd be having a lot different experience than another auditorium which I might find visually bland.

 

[sander99]

The Sounding Silence

OMG! Googling this gives 500.000.000 links about Sound of Silence and/or Simon and Garfunkel it seems

 

[Davesrose]

OMG! Googling this gives 500.000.000 links about Sound of Silence and/or Simon and Garfunkel it seems

Don't ever speak bad of Simon and Garfunkel Still one of my favorite vocal groups.

 

[gregorio]

I doubt if 4’33” has been performed more than a half dozen times.

It’s been performed countless times, no idea how many times but easily over 100. It’s also been recorded dozens of times. So, yet another falsehood.

Gregorio must be speaking of its wonders based on reports by snake oil salesmen.

I’m speaking about 4’33” based on having seen a live performance, having studied the piece, having heard Cage explain it himself both in writings and in person and on other factual basis. Your assertion is just another lie.

Just more falsehoods and lies, apparently constituting “quality arguments” as far as you’re concerned!

A long time ago I read a definition of music that I liked very much …

There are numerous definitions, none of them universally true/accurate. My favourite and one of the closest to being universal was by Luciano Berio: “Music is everything that one listens to with the intention of listening to music”.

G

 

[sander99]

Don't ever speak bad of Simon and Garfunkel Still one of my favorite vocal groups.

Oh no, I meant nothing bad about Simon and Garfunkel, just that google is driving me nuts sometimes!