Big amplifiers vs small headphone amplifiers
Sep 30, 2017 at 5:43 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 12

DasKobold

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Hi guys. So I am kind of new in this audio world and I need your help. I am looking for a dac amp recently. On the internet people recommend stuff like the schiit jotunheim or the aune x1. Those devices are cool and all but what about the bigger stuff that's sold in audio stores? Like the marantz PM6006, or something like Pioneer VSX-330? I mean I have space on my desk so why not go for the bigger stuff? I currently don't own any speakers, I only have my headphones but I am planning on getting some bookshelf speakers soon.
 
Sep 30, 2017 at 9:17 AM Post #4 of 12
Because Marantz and the other stuff are stereo amplifiers. Those aren't headphone amplifiers.
 
Sep 30, 2017 at 11:52 AM Post #5 of 12
I find modern electronics sound better with films than music.All of my vintage receivers sound better for music than my NAD T758 receiver.Try to find a good vintage piece,and live happily ever after.


Because Marantz and the other stuff are stereo amplifiers. Those aren't headphone amplifiers.

Hmmm...dont knock it til you try it.My desktop headphone amp...Driving everything from my ZMFs to my AKG sextetts to my HE6 like a boss!

Name a headphone amp that can drive passive speakers,can connect a turntable,tape deck,picks up radio,has built-in low/md/high tone control,has built in bass boost,looks bad ass,can be had for under 300.00?

Best kept secret in this hobby.

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Sep 30, 2017 at 7:54 PM Post #6 of 12
Those old integrated amplifiers have their own charm, glowing and heating in addition to sound many times better than new modern equipment!


Because Marantz and the other stuff are stereo amplifiers. Those aren't headphone amplifiers.

And what are they, if not also headphone amplifiers?
And are headphone amplifiers not stereo amplifiers?
Are all your posts stupid like this?
 
Sep 30, 2017 at 8:03 PM Post #7 of 12
Hi guys. So I am kind of new in this audio world and I need your help. I am looking for a dac amp recently. On the internet people recommend stuff like the schiit jotunheim or the aune x1. Those devices are cool and all but what about the bigger stuff that's sold in audio stores? Like the marantz PM6006, or something like Pioneer VSX-330? I mean I have space on my desk so why not go for the bigger stuff? I currently don't own any speakers, I only have my headphones but I am planning on getting some bookshelf speakers soon.

Od classic amplifiers can be a good choice on your desk, if you have the space for it!
Only problem most have no USB input.
But finding a powered USB to Analog converter to connect to your amplifier should not be difficult.
The Marantz have coaxial input, but not all computers have this.
 
Sep 30, 2017 at 8:12 PM Post #8 of 12
Hi guys. So I am kind of new in this audio world and I need your help. I am looking for a dac amp recently. On the internet people recommend stuff like the schiit jotunheim or the aune x1. Those devices are cool and all but what about the bigger stuff that's sold in audio stores? Like the marantz PM6006, or something like Pioneer VSX-330? I mean I have space on my desk so why not go for the bigger stuff? I currently don't own any speakers, I only have my headphones but I am planning on getting some bookshelf speakers soon.
Your question(s) is kind of generalized.
Are you asking about what you need for audio equipment or trying to start a generalized discussion?
We need more details on what your end game is?
Budget?
What headphones do you own or planning on buying in the near future?
Are you audio needs more for FPS gaming or listening to music or watching movies (on the computer)?

I would recommend studio monitors (self-powered speakers), that you could connect to an DAC/headphone amplifier.

Like Monoprice 5" studio monitors ($170) and a ($330) Audio-GD NFB-11.28 (DAC/head amp).
 
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Sep 30, 2017 at 9:45 PM Post #9 of 12
On the internet people recommend stuff like the schiit jotunheim or the aune x1. Those devices are cool and all but what about the bigger stuff that's sold in audio stores? Like the marantz PM6006, or something like Pioneer VSX-330? I mean I have space on my desk so why not go for the bigger stuff?

Because they're speaker amps and most of them have crappy headphone driver circuits. Even among the best which basically routs the output stage on the amp to the front headphone jack have one disadvantage vs some dedicated headphone amplifiers: the latter since they're designed to run headphones, ie, not crank out as much power as a speaker, were engineered to run in Class A. The Marantz PM80 for example has a pure Class A mode, but in that setting it churns out only 10watts per channel, a small fraction of what it can spit out if you let it switch over into Class A/B, and yet it's the same size as the A/B topology amps. Marantz has decent headphone driver circuits but they still have one other problem: very high output impedance. Grados can sound like tin cans, AKGs can sound like tin cans with a low volume rumble with a hollow sounding bass drum, some other headphones can sound like a total mudslide. It depends on what amp - some amps will do the opposite on the same low impedance headphones.

One other thing that contributes to the size: the inputs and outputs. Newer speaker amps even if they're still Class A/B are smaller just by cutting down on these.


I mean I have space on my desk so why not go for the bigger stuff? I currently don't own any speakers, I only have my headphones but I am planning on getting some bookshelf speakers soon.

Because bigger doesn't mean better. Why buy a Class A/B amp that, at best, has a high output impedance even with all that power (that won't necessarily remain undistorted at 32ohms as its measurements at 8ohms suggest) when you can have something small and works better?

There are other ways to tackle having both headphones and speakers. If this is in a dedicated listening room and the headphones are only for when other people in the house are asleep, then get a good Marantz amplifier and an easy to drive, high impedance headphone, that way it won't have any difficulty driving that. Or connect a headphone amplifier to the Tape/Rec line level output on the amp.

In your case you're using a desk then you'd be sitting a lot closer to the speakers, you might as well get nearfield speakers designed for listener at closer to 1m away from the speakers. Studio monitors are nearfield and have four channels of amplification - two channels in each cabinet, one for the tweeter and one for the midwoofer. Past room acoustics, this offers one important advantage: you can set the gain differently on each amp. Too bright? Lower the tweeter amps' gain. Too dark? Inrease the tweeter amps' gain.

You can get a headphone amp with a preamp output or DAC-HPamp-Preamp unit. Choose the right gear for the right headphones and they'll drive the headphones well, while allowing you to control the nearfield speakers' output using the same volume knob. AudioGD has DAC-HPamp-Preamp units that have an output selector switch out front so you don't even need to unplug the headphones to switch over to the speakers.
 
Oct 1, 2017 at 11:27 AM Post #10 of 12
What's your budget?

As little as possible, but I was thinking of 200€ to 600€

Your question(s) is kind of generalized.
Are you asking about what you need for audio equipment or trying to start a generalized discussion?

a little bit of both, I want to buy something new and I am not sure what I should go for. So yeah, I want to discuss which one of those are the best, but I will eventually buy one of them.

What headphones do you own or planning on buying in the near future?
Are you audio needs more for FPS gaming or listening to music or watching movies (on the computer)?

I own the Beyerdynamic dt 1770, the original 770 and the T1. I had a hd 598, but I lent it to a friend ages ago and I doubt I will ever see it again. I do play games, but rarely, so I need my headphones mostly for music. Movies are lame, I almost never watch movies.

I don't have speakers yet, but I want to buy speakers and I thought if I am going to buy speakers at some point I might as well go for a dac/amp combo that can handle both speakers and headphones.

Because they're speaker amps and most of them have crappy headphone driver circuits. Even among the best which basically routs the output stage on the amp to the front headphone jack have one disadvantage vs some dedicated headphone amplifiers: the latter since they're designed to run headphones, ie, not crank out as much power as a speaker, were engineered to run in Class A.

;_; can anyone confirm this? I was really looking forward to buying one of those bigger amps.
 
Oct 1, 2017 at 12:02 PM Post #11 of 12
;_; can anyone confirm this?

What's there for others to confirm? Go around manufacturer web pages and it's a lot easier to find headphone amps running in Class A. Not that it's the only determinant for performance, but that's one less compromise that needs to get done without making a compromise that ends up with a large, heavy heatsink and still have just 15watts per channel (which might not be enough for speakers, but you can get a 1watt per channel headphone amp for $250).

As for the output impedance, you can ask the in DIY forum what instruments you can use to measure the output impedance, and then try it even on integrated amps, including those that use the amp's output stage to drive the headphone. Even Marantz won't have low output impedance. The chip in the Fiio K5 is basically a newer version of the older Philips headphone driver chip and they are the first to run it stable in a circuit with a low output impedance. So while Marantz has decent headphone drivers in terms of power, it's not necessarily running off the speaker output stage, and even then you won't have low output impedance nor the same power as what you can get out of a Schiit Vali2 for example (much less a Violectric V200).


I was really looking forward to buying one of those bigger amps.

Size isn't always everything. An Exige will still go around a track faster than a Camaro. Even if the latter dominates qualifying one wrong move and the Exige will edge ahead and block it at every corner thereafter. You need the right tool for the right job.

You can always use both, provided the speaker amp has a Rec/Tape out, that way you can hook up a relatively cheap but good headphone amp (ex Schiit Vali, Meier Jazz) there and it can receive a signal direct from the input (ie unaffected by the preamp). In most cases that works even with the amp switched off, you just need to hit the button that enables the Tape/Rec output if it has one.

Or just get a DAC-HPamp-Preamp and use the right speakers for the right job, ie, powered nearfield monitors.
 
Oct 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM Post #12 of 12
;_; can anyone confirm this? I was really looking forward to buying one of those bigger amps.

Its true,hence why I suggested a vintage receiver....back in the day they didnt make a separate component for HP out,rather simply added a resistor off of the main amp.
 

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