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heaven forbid that you get int a catastrophic collision with a curb -_-
on one my my chillest rides, when we hit the end of the ride at a yogurt shop this guy smacks the top of the curb with his mavic ellipses.
left a 1 inch indent -_- but it still spins true lol
those carbon fiber spokes are pretty expensive though plus you cant even replace them you have to rtb to manufactururer to get a new set
plus im not even sure my shop i work at plays around with madfiber.
cool wheelset though,
and ive heard a case where this guy's mij $100 chain starts rubbing on his HED stingers and eventually cuts through one of his spokes because it wasnt trued after he hit a pothole
Exactly... These are a specialist wheelset. The Zipps are almost usable for training, at least...
But I learned some time ago that durabilty always trumps light weight when it comes to bicycle parts. If it doesn't break, it's hella faster than a broken part. Hence my handbuilt 32-spoke, 3-cross wheelset laced to Mavic A319 hubs. Of course, I paid almost double what I would have in the US...
Then again, I don't race professionally. I've only placed in one race ever, and that was second or third among college students - still not so great for such a small race. But it was on that bike...
Of course, that was the year I later broke my leg in a mountain bike race. Note to self: Don't ever use Look-style pedals off road, and don't ever stick a semi-slick on front if there is ANY chance at all for mud.
mmm but you still want to look classy though, i want to run some HED 3 clinchers on a dolan trackchamp frame with a pursuit bullhorn.
i mean if u have the money zipps are crazy nice and fast. but you have to balance it with being cool.
im running some mavic open pros laced to a standard mavic and a formula sealed hub laced to an alexrim r500 and its basically bomb proof.
i think the most trainable rims are the ellipses, they are about 600-800 depending on who u buy them from new. so they wont kill you,
plus you can retension them urself or fix a pulldown spoke
placed me decently in an alley cat race.
if i had the money i would buy a custom made yamaguchi asymetrical pursuit frame for 3k and shove some zipps on it.
but then again if i lose a wheel i lose a k lol.
btw sorry about ur leg. i would never run look style or any SPD or clipless offroad.
if i were you i would run a eggbeater set if ur going off road, has a lower center of mass and greater intertia to keep you going fast.
and run some really really good brakes
Sincere thanks for the condolences - I'm sorry if I sound harsh in the following, but I've got something of a chip on my shoulder, ya'know?
First things first: I already use eggbeaters, on and off road as a result of that accident. And yes, they are in fact clipless. You do know that SPD was made for off road riding though, right? It's SPD-SL that's for road riding - they're pretty much modified Look designs. The reason I was using the Look copies (Nashbar ones, actually), is because I didn't have any money for anything better at the time - and they're still a lot faster than toe clips.
But "lower center of mass and greater intertia"? Where does that come from? Any symmetrical pedal design (obviously not look-style) is going to have the exact same center of mass - right in the middle of the axle. And it doesn't matter anyway, because pedals are peanuts when it comes to weight.
Speaking of weight - that's where inertia comes in. You know what inertia is, right? An object's inertia is its resistance to change in motion (whether it is moving in a
straight line or at rest) - and is measured as the mass of the object. You know, Newton's first law: An object at rest stays at rest and an object at constant velocity remains so unless there is an outside force acting upon it. Rotational inertia is the equivalent of inertia for a rotating object, which takes into account the distance of the mass of the object from the rotational axis. Anyway, the mass of the pedal (and thus its inertia) are so small compared to the bicycle's and the friction of the drivetrain that it's irrelevant. You don't want heavier wheels (all else being equal), do you? You don't argue that a heavier wheel's greater rotational inertia is a bigger benefit than the increased energy required to spin them up to cruising speed, do you? Yes, there are a few cases where greater mass helps - say, in cutting through deep snow - at least until you're stopped by it, anyway. But as a hardfast general rule, you want to
minimize your bike's rotational inertia.
About the Open Pros - I wouldn't ever use a pair myself. Far too many bad stories about them - if there's an overrated bike component, this is it. Well, the Open Pros and any derailleur above entry level. Tthe bike companies don't want you to know, but it's the shifters and the cable that really matter - derailleur cage length has a bigger impact on shifting performance than whether it's Deore or Campy Record Ace, at least since the Suntour derailleur patent on the dual-pivot design expired and everyone copied it.
Anyway, I weigh 175 lb, commute all winter (potholes, three feet of snow (yes, that much), it doesn't matter), tour unsupported with ~60 lb gear (sometimes on dirt or gravel roads), trail ride, and in general abuse my wheels on both my road/touring bike and my mountain bike (minus the touring on the mountain bike). I have something like three bent rims and a bent axle over the last few years (yeah, I'm sure some people could put that to shame) - so when I build up a new set of wheels it's always on a
very strong rim. I don't think I'll
ever buy a pre-built wheelset again either, unless it's a pair of deep section aero wheels or discs for racing (which I doubt I'll ever get anyway since I don't think I'll ever be fast enough to justify it). I'm more into mountain biking and touring these days anyway.
"but you have to balance it with being cool" - Really? I do? I mean, looks are a bonus (whoo CK headset!) - but I'm sorry, I don't want to look like a hipster-wannabe bike messenger/track rider hybrid - and form follows function, always (e.g. cutting off the front half of my front fender because it interfered with my new CX tires, even though it doesn't look very good that way). I hate to take such an elitist stance (when I was on the tri team at MSU, we didn't really associate with the cycling team much, since quite a few of them acted like high-maintenance [and elitist] divas), but every time I see a punk riding some gaudy fixie with absurdly colored Velocity Deep V rims it makes me want to puke. It doesn't help that they're almost uniformly horrible riders, and in particular they ride like a**holes on the road. Some people in the riding community wonder why bicyclists get such a bad rap by drivers - those riders (and their illegal and disruptive alleycat races) are a big part (but not all) of the problem these days.
On the subject of brakes - and my crash: It didn't matter what brakes I had, I was cornering in the mud at what should have been (and what I judged to be) a reasonable speed. But the problem was that I had a Michelin Jet S tire on front, which was the best tire for the normally sandy conditions at that particular trail. Unforuntately, as muddy as it was, that tire was essentially useless. Going around the corner I crashed on, the tire entirely lost its grip - slipping outwards thanks to my inertia... My bike rotated counter-clockwise (along the logitudinal axis as viewed from the rear of the bike) while I did not. What happened was that the way I had my weight on the handlebars at the time - and the position my leg happened to be in - the top tube rotated into contact with my leg. The angle it was at didn't allow my pedals to unclip easily (i.e. it wasn't a side to side rotation), and my leg broke before the force needed to unclip my shoe (or perhaps break the plastic cleat) was reached.
But anyway, well maintained brakes today are almost all great anyway. The way I've got mine set up on my mountain bike - sealed cable (Jagwire Ripcord) and adjustable pivot levers (Avid Speed Dial 7) controlling mechanical disc calipers (Hayes MX2, although just like derailleurs they aren't as important as the cable or levers) - makes the brakes feel as smooth as hydros, without the cost or the maintenance. Actually, I'm convinced that clean, good cable and housing is the single most overlooked aspect of (multi-speed and braked) bike maintenance. If your bike isn't shifting or braking as it should - and everything is dialled in correctly - it's almost always the cable.
i thought that you want a lower center of mass closer in towards the axle, since it gives you the ability to have an advantage on your angular velocity while pedaling.
and yes i made a mistake on the inertia, you want a lower intertia.
bleh i hate physics i like chem more
anyways i hate gaudy fixies, but i like running track bikes hence a dolan track champ is on my wishlist.
but you know whether or not they really know their stuff from the hub they are using, a phil wood hub is really expenisve maybe going up $130 a hub i think? but is super smooth
i mean in reality i could run a frame with alex r500 rims laced to a decent hub no one really needs a disc wheel unless u tt.
i live in davis, which is pretty much the bike capital of the world so our races dont get too out of hand, plus most of us are generally inclined to follow the rules of the road. since we get tickets just like cars -_-
also open pros just a rimset which is pretty light, and affordable to do training or racing on not a derailer set.
im also not sure about your argument on derailers either. since i ve worked on many diffrent gruppos
i mean comparing a SRAM red to a shimano sora is riducuous if you seen them in person or even just down a tier to say SRAM force
everything is much more precise and faster(although SRAM red cassettes are super loud since they are hollow)
on ur subject on brakes however ur ruling on how the shifter and the brake line is correct, the tension has to be dialed, but a lot of factors to me come into play.
i believe that the wheel has to be true (true everytime you ride) ,and you're brakes to be adjusted to match perfectly to the machined surface. Your brakes also have to be the correct to the terrain that you are running on, i have several types of brakes for all conditions, since running brakes on rain is much diffrent than running on mud and such, but thats just me since i dont work much on cx bikes and more on tt,tri and fixies
also tires matter alot and should be changed and rotated due to skidding
breaking ur leg like that really sucks, that why i like to taking cornering under adverse conditions with 4 wheels =)
i thought that you want a lower center of mass closer in towards the axle, since it gives you the ability to have an advantage on your angular velocity while pedaling.
You want wheel mass to be as close to the axle - which is not a lower "center of mass" - it's lower rotational inertia. On standard bicycles, having a lower center of mass (i.e. closer to the ground) isn't really an issue at all, since you're sticking a rider that weighs almost ten times what his bike weighs on top of it - and you lean into corners, eliminating a host of four-wheeled problems related to center of mass.
anyways i hate gaudy fixies, but i like running track bikes hence a dolan track champ is on my wishlist.
but you know whether or not they really know their stuff from the hub they are using, a phil wood hub is really expenisve maybe going up $130 a hub i think? but is super smooth
Yes, proper track bikes are beautiful. Phil Wood can be far more than $130 a hub - that's about a front hub price. All of the rear hubs are much more and can range up to around $400 each (freehubs, obviously - fixed hubs are less). I'd love to have a set (or two, perhaps laced to some Ghisallo rims for a show bike), but Shimano hubs are almost as durable (just repack/replace the bearings) for a fraction of the price (for a fixie I'm sure Formula is the choice, although I'd take Surly hubs myself). Oh, and the new Tiagra (dunno about Deore) hubs have essentially the same excellent seals as the Dura-Ace. They're also easier to get replacement parts. It doesn't happen very often at all, but it'd be hell to get a replacement Phil axle in Europe, let alone the rest of the world.
Oh, one thing: I don't really understand why bolt-on disc hubs haven't replaced dual-threaded hubs to a greater extent. They're so much easier to replace cogs on, and I believe they are easier to machine (the giant threads on hubs are rather difficult to turn (i.e. use a lathe to machine them out)).
Another thing: Velocity USA (they're Australian) is headquartered in Michigan - that could be why I see so many of their wheels.
i live in davis, which is pretty much the bike capital of the world so our races dont get too out of hand, plus most of us are generally inclined to follow the rules of the road. since we get tickets just like cars -_-
Ahh, okay. We don't usually get ticketed (although I've yet to run a red light/stop sign with an officer behind me) - the police in East Lansing are crazy about getting speeders, so they've usually got their hands full pulling over people doing 29 in a 25 mph zone.
What I'm talking about, of course, is the wannabe messengers that try to ride like this but fail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLzGj10fg2g
And then brag about how good they are.
Both types are a**holes - the difference is that those guys are actually pretty good - guys who ride for a living. There's no messengers in Michigan. Traffic, etc. doesn't get that bad here, the riders aren't fast, and there's no compelling prizes - so it generally doesn't degenerate to anything like that.
also open pros just a rimset which is pretty light, and affordable to do training or racing on not a derailer set.
Yeah, I'm sure for just race training, crits, and those who can't afford better wheels for racing it's a decent wheelset. I obviously have different objectives, and the vast majority of riders are the same way - the just try to pretend otherwise.
im also not sure about your argument on derailers either. since i ve worked on many diffrent gruppos
i mean comparing a SRAM red to a shimano sora is riducuous if you seen them in person or even just down a tier to say SRAM force
everything is much more precise and faster(although SRAM red cassettes are super loud since they are hollow)
I've never used Red or Sora, so I can't comment on the two. Let's get this straight though - I am talking about the shifting performance of the
derailleur only. Not the quality of the rest of the grouppo You can't even compare those two either, because the cable pull ratio is different. That's a fundamental difference in design, like cage length, that has nothing to do with the "quality" of the part.
But I'm saying that there's little difference between derailleurs in terms of performance - say, Dura-Ace versus Sora, both short cage. All a derailleur is is a couple of pivoting metal arms that move a wheeled arm side to side - the only important thing shifting performance wise is the geometry. Obviously, there's more to it than that, but you get the point. The quality of the machining, forging, etc. make no difference to the performance - only to the weight and percieved quality. The shifters and cable (as I already mentioned) play a much bigger role, as do the cassette and chain. There's a reason why my early 1980s Suntour Cyclone derailleur still is buttery smooth with a 9 speed cassette. It originally was designed for a 5 speed cassette! Since then, derailleur design has been fundementally unchanged, except for SRAM's 1:1 pull ratio and Shimano's low-normal designs (reversed springs). Despite those developments, still today the vast majority of derailleurs have the same design as that Suntour does.
i believe that the wheel has to be true (true everytime you ride) ,and you're brakes to be adjusted to match perfectly to the machined surface. Your brakes also have to be the correct to the terrain that you are running on, i have several types of brakes for all conditions, since running brakes on rain is much diffrent than running on mud and such, but thats just me since i dont work much on cx bikes and more on tt,tri and fixies
Seriously? I don't have time to true my wheel every day before I commute to/from work or school. Nor do my bikes need it. Yes, I check every once in a while - but on my road bike and tri bike I'm usually alerted by brake rubbing first anyway (I run my pads quite close to the rim). They don't need truing more than once every few months anyway... And I can't even remember the last time I trued my mountain bike wheels - disc brakes make trueness a non-factor, brake-wise (I once rode a bent rim about 8 miles at Poto, which was so bad that I would've had to release the calipers if I had rim brakes). Usually I only have to true any of the wheels I've built after a bad crash or other big hit.
Several different types of brakes?!? Do you change out calipers based on the weather - or do you mean brake pads?
Yes, there certainly is a performance difference between pads - old hard pads versus new rubber, or salmon pads for the wet. I've never heard anyone make the claim that a given pad for rim brakes is better for mud than rain (obviously mud has its own problems) or vice versa though... Wet vs. dry, yes. It's plausible that someone could develop a better compound for winter that's softer (for the cold), but I haven't seen that yet.
But all of that's irrelevant if you have disc brakes anyway. Mud, rain, and snow make almost no difference. The limiting factor is always traction. Adjustment is a non-issue for mechanical discs (and hydros, barring stupidity), too. Pads last nearly forever, and you can make micro-adjustments if needed (cable stretch or, rarely, pad wear) right on the lever. If you've got Avid Speed Dial levers, you can change the pull ratio while riding too. All in all, they're so easy to set up it's stupid. Good side-pull road brakes aren't bad either, but discs are easier, and if you've ever spent time setting up cantis or linear pull brakes (especially without a third hand tool, say, in the field) you probably can relate to the frustration of getting them just perfect. And of course, freedom from rim wear and bad rim surfaces - not to mention clearance is great.
Basically, I think if you're not road racing or riding a budget town bike (i.e. not a serious rider), there's no reason not to go for mechanical disc brakes (hydraulic if you want, but I prefer mechanical). The extra half a pound or so in weight is more than made up for in performance, maintenance and durability. You might call me a disc-brake evangelist. My next road/touring/CX bike (to allow my current Raleigh to be maintained as a classic bicycle for town rides) will have discs, there is no doubt.
also tires matter alot and should be changed and rotated due to skidding
I used to try to skimp on (road) tires - until I learned better with a good pair of high-TPI, puncture resistant ones. Skidding isn't a problem if you don't ride fixed... : /
Mountain biking - Well, I learned when to use which tires... They're the most important component of a mountain bike to be sure.
