[Redcarmoose]

Interesting reading the age old frame material question. It never really ends, plus as bike makers continue to be in the business of selling bike frames, the truth is always added with some sales talk.
 
 
I would say that steal maybe feels the best to ride. Though I have never owned a titanium bike? Carbon probably does end up being the lowest weight. I have not rode a modern-day carbon either, they must have designed out some of the clacktyness and jitteryness or we would not see the popularity. Still I wonder how many carbon riders would compare carbon to perfect steal joy?
 
For me it has been truly amazing how carbon has grown in popularity? Even popular in price points where titanium could be purchased. Seeing this it seems like the industry has wonderfully forgotten about titanium. I wonder if carbon can be cheaper to build with offering higher profit centers for makers.
 
Gone are the so called screwed and glued aluminum tube bikes of the mid-eighties, in are the ultra-cheap hydro-formed 6000 aluminum brutes. Strong as hell, relatively low weight and cheap to make. The ride though has much to be desired and maybe always will. Lucky they have worked to make em stiff where they need to be, one great thing. The price is great. 6000 series would be an amazing material to work with if they could use technology to make the ride better. We could finally see cheap strong and great riding  low-weight bikes for the masses. If things continue the way they have been going we will probably end up seeing cheap, strong, low-weight and great riding carbon bikes for the masses.
 
Handmade steal bikes are still cool, relativity heavy in comparison to carbon/titanium. Amazingly the price of a classic hand made Italian frame has never really gone down when prices are adjusted for inflation. If anything new ones seem to have gone up in price and abundance has gone down.
 
 
 
With this said, I think steel is best for heavy and/or powerful riders, aluminum hydro-formed is the value and carbon and titanium for the lowest-weight bikes and riders with the heaviest wallets.

 

[deltarocket]

I dont know why you say that people are "hating" CF, I for one do not hate CF, but the original thread was about getting a bike for Triathalons for $2K.  I'm not sure if you have done a Tri, but the folks that train for these events put a lot of miles on their bikes and need not only a good frame that is light and serviceable but need components that are reliable.  Most Tri rigs have Shimano 105 or equivalent.  I would offer that you are unlikely to get a mid quality CF frame with a 105 group, even used for $2K.  Thats not hate that is simple economics.  For $2K you can get a very nice used, top end Steel or maybe even a Ti bike.  Thats all.  Now, while I agree with CF being a great material, I am not sure that I would take a spill on one and just jump back on after a quick visual inspection.  If I took a similar spill on a Steel or Ti bike and did not see anything broken I would have no issue getting back on and riding.  I read most of the thread and I dont think there is anything close to hate on CF, there is a lot on the ride quality of steel, the fact that if you buy a good steel bike that it will be fairly light and durable.  Oh, and there is a bit on the "nostalgic" feel of a steel bike.  Clearly CF is the future, but I think its unfortunate to not consider a quality steel bike, particularly if you are on a budget.

 

[ferday]

   
 
Handmade steal bikes are still cool, relativity heavy in comparison to carbon/titanium. Amazingly the price of a classic hand made Italian frame has never really gone down when prices are adjusted for inflation. If anything new ones seem to have gone up in price and abundance has gone down.
 
 
 
With this said, I think steel is best for heavy and/or powerful riders, aluminum hydro-formed is the value and carbon and titanium for the lowest-weight bikes and riders with the heaviest wallets.

 
having owned handmade bikes and always had at least one steel ride in the quiver for the last 20+ years, i can safely say that a properly done modern carbon bike rides better than steel.  the beauty of carbon is the layup can be customized to provide stiffness in one direction but compliance in another...it's way more tuneable than any other material.  it's still not my favorite material for bikes, i still appreciate the classic beauty and solid ride of steel, but holy snap it rides nice.  should disclaimer this though....all of my road bikes are steel right now, my carbon is in my MTB fleet
 
i've broken frames of every material type except Ti (cause i can't afford it LOL) 

 

[Redcarmoose]

   
having owned handmade bikes and always had at least one steel ride in the quiver for the last 20+ years, i can safely say that a properly done modern carbon bike rides better than steel.  the beauty of carbon is the layup can be customized to provide stiffness in one direction but compliance in another...it's way more tuneable than any other material.  it's still not my favorite material for bikes, i still appreciate the classic beauty and solid ride of steel, but holy snap it rides nice.  should disclaimer this though....all of my road bikes are steel right now, my carbon is in my MTB fleet
 
i've broken frames of every material type except Ti (cause i can't afford it LOL) 

That is nice to read about. I've been out of the market for awhile, though I own one carbon and sold one carbon.
 
My romance with steal may be just romance. It's hard to get the feeling of those epic steal rides of youth out of your head.

 

 

[customcoco]

  I dont know why you say that people are "hating" CF, I for one do not hate CF, but the original thread was about getting a bike for Triathalons for $2K.  I'm not sure if you have done a Tri, but the folks that train for these events put a lot of miles on their bikes and need not only a good frame that is light and serviceable but need components that are reliable.  Most Tri rigs have Shimano 105 or equivalent.  I would offer that you are unlikely to get a mid quality CF frame with a 105 group, even used for $2K.  Thats not hate that is simple economics.  For $2K you can get a very nice used, top end Steel or maybe even a Ti bike.  Thats all.  Now, while I agree with CF being a great material, I am not sure that I would take a spill on one and just jump back on after a quick visual inspection.  If I took a similar spill on a Steel or Ti bike and did not see anything broken I would have no issue getting back on and riding.  I read most of the thread and I dont think there is anything close to hate on CF, there is a lot on the ride quality of steel, the fact that if you buy a good steel bike that it will be fairly light and durable.  Oh, and there is a bit on the "nostalgic" feel of a steel bike.  Clearly CF is the future, but I think its unfortunate to not consider a quality steel bike, particularly if you are on a budget.

May I know who you're talking to? If that's me, then I've already apologized for my use of that word. I'm just fine with people thinking differently, don't worry !

 
Again, I have no idea about how the used bikes market works up here.  From where I stand though, buying a great CF (> Ultegra/Chorus) bike for less than 2K$ is not only possible but highly do-able.
 
Now, it might be very different in Northern America.

 

[Silent One]

 
Ahhh.... good ol' steel! I still taker her out once a month; the Cervelo S5 three to four times a week. She's about to go into storage next week, though. I resume training at the Velodrome this Saturday and that will cut into road riding.
 
But if the Canadian develops any cracks 

, out comes the Schwinn!

 

[Silent One]

Street Velodrome Racing.... making it work.
 

 

[Hutnicks]

  Street Velodrome Racing.... making it work.
 
 

I'm thinking that if you took a short frame MTB fixie and put 1inch slicks on her you could smoke those guys on cornering speeds alone.

 

 

[Redcarmoose]

  I'm thinking that if you took a short frame MTB fixie and put 1inch slicks on her you could smoke those guys on cornering speeds alone.

 

Yes, I have never seen a banked curve like that. Reminds me when we took our cars to the banked race track. What no one knew is that at 70mph the rear tires of a Cadillac will "let-go" and not hold like a race suspension. With a mountain bike frame and slicks you could actually get closer/lower on the curve and not have your crank-arms touch as you power around the lower section.
 
Those guys seemed to waist a lot of time and energy and distance on the top section of the curve?
 
The difference from a real velodrome is they kind of just made the smallest curves at both ends, to save money, where a real velodrome is 100% banked.

 

[Silent One]

Originally Posted by Hutnicks /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
I'm thinking that if you took a short frame MTB fixie and put 1inch slicks on her you could smoke those guys on cornering speeds alone.

 

 It'd be fun to watch. You'd have reputations on the line, different riders bringing their garage concepts out for racing, all kinds of ideas could emerge from these travelling mini meets.
 
I frequently watch Team Canada practice here at the Velo (USA's home training site). They're getting very excited that their own UCI certified World Class facility will be done September 2014 in Ontario. I'm thinking of going up there this autumn to see/ride the track for a day during open session. More of a "I was there" type of weekend than anything else. 

 

 

[Silent One]

   
Yes, I have never seen a banked curve like that. Reminds me when we took our cars to the banked race track. What no one knew is that at 70mph the rear tires of a Cadillac will "let-go" and not hold like a race suspension. With a mountain bike frame and slicks you could actually get closer/lower on the curve and not have your crank-arms touch as you power around the lower section.
 
Those guys seemed to waist a lot of time and energy and distance on the top section of the curve?
 
The difference from a real velodrome is they kind of just made the smallest curves at both ends, to save money, where a real velodrome is 100% banked.

 Cuttin' corners BIG Time! That's why I made sure I wrote "making it work."

 

[Hutnicks]

 

 It'd be fun to watch. You'd have reputations on the line, different riders bringing their garage concepts out for racing, all kinds of ideas could emerge from these travelling mini meets.
 
I frequently watch Team Canada practice here at the Velo (USA's home training site). They're getting very excited that their own UCI certified World Class facility will be done September 2014 in Ontario. I'm thinking of going up there this autumn to see/ride the track for a day during open session. More of a "I was there" type of weekend than anything else. 

 

Well that set up does not favour tradional track bikes at all. It's more a bmx track with asphalt straights. Some keeners going to whip up a non conventional bike to KA.
 
The Milton velodrome will be 20 kilometers up the road from me. Thats tempting. There is still no guarantee the velodrome will be retained after the games though. If you do make the trip there is another velodrome in London Ontario that is worth the trip. Its about 110 kilometers west of Milton.

 

[Silent One]

 

Well that set up does not favour tradional track bikes at all. It's more a bmx track with asphalt straights. Some keeners going to whip up a non conventional bike to KA.
 
The Milton velodrome will be 20 kilometers up the road from me. Thats tempting. There is still no guarantee the velodrome will be retained after the games though. If you do make the trip there is another velodrome in London Ontario that is worth the trip. Its about 110 kilometers west of Milton.

 

 Street scratch. Remember the context, there are no facilities 'round those places they travel around to. And no cheating

with bmx bikes. Wow, that's right in your backyard.... or 

 front. They'll be keeping the Velo. As is stands right now, members of your national teams (some of them spend months) continually train at USA's home facility (LA Velodrome). Milton will be fully UCI spec'd and give Canada a new training ground.

 

[Hutnicks]

   

 Street scratch. Remember the context, there are no facilities 'round those places they travel around to. And no cheating

with bmx bikes. Wow, that's right in your backyard.... or 

 front. They'll be keeping the Velo. As is stands right now, members of your national teams (some of them spend months) continually train at USA's home facility (LA Velodrome). Milton will be fully UCI spec'd and give Canada a new training ground.

There is still the drome in Vancouver which seems to be the preferred hangout for Canadian athletes. I am leary of this one after seeing the drome from the 76 Olympics rot into oblivion.
 
Still, may have to tune up (and repaint) the old Spinelli, if lap time is economical enough.

 

[ferday]

There is still the drome in Vancouver which seems to be the preferred hangout for Canadian athletes. I am leary of this one after seeing the drome from the 76 Olympics rot into oblivion.

Still, may have to tune up (and repaint) the old Spinelli, if lap time is economical enough.

Considering how busy the calgary drome is all the time I wonder if they are all hanging out there! I don't get much time on the track these days but is rather be outside anyways