[Falkentyne]

Got my beyerdynamic mmx300, but...where's the bass? Am I getting the proper frequency response?

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I have these headsets plugged into a creative labs X-fi / Astro mixamp.

Hmm, well these headphones sound absolutely wonderful (compared to my astro a40's) for music (I don't know how to really test mids, though the mids are better too), but aren't these supposed to have deep bass (since they are based on the DT 770's, which are supposed to be bass monsters?).

The astros seem to have *deeper* or heavier bass than the MMX300, although not as clean, but everything with the A40 seems more muddied and subdued, while the beyers sound very clean, especially on the highs; rivaling my Klipsch Promedia 5.1's (or even exceeding them).

But this doesn't make sense...the astros are known for "lack" of bass, so how do they seem to be hitting the lows (although "muddier") heavier? Aren't the MMX300's bass monsters too? Or am I looking for the "wrong" thing in bass?

I *will* say this:
The Beyers have a LOT more "Kick" in the drum sounds, like I'm actually hearing real drums, while the astros sound "flat" in the same music sample.

Anyway, am I supposed to keep the bass slider for the windows volume panel at medium, or am I supposed to slide it over to the right? What is the "normal" setting?

(this is my first time using an audiophile headset, btw, so I really don't know what to look for here).

Also, the MMX300 has a 32 ohm impedence, so would they benefit from a cmoy 2.02 "altoids case" headphone amp? Or are those only for 80-300 ohm headsets?

Anyway I know I'm a complete noob to audiophile headsets, but what exactly is the "deep" bassmaster bass that people say that DT770's usually give? I hav absolutely no idea if I'm getting proper, or not enough bass, out of the MMX300... Is it supposed to be "subwoofer" type bass (e.g. cans vibrating a bit?) or just clean distinguished bass? I saw some posts that some people would turn down the bass on the equalizer slightly for some songs...

 

[Falkentyne]

Hmm, sigh..no replies

I hope my question wasn't a "bad" question or anything.

Since these are the same as the DT 770 (32 ohm) version, can someone with the DT770's chime in? (I know you're out there).

I hope I don't have a "defective" set of cans, here...

I ran a low hz bass test (at YouTube - Bass Test - Demanding tracks for your system [Bass Test] 1 ), and I noticed the astro a40's could hear the lower ends (like 25 hz and lower) a lot easier than the Beyers could (I had to really crank the mmx300 up to hear anything under 20 hz).

Is there anyone who can shed some light on this? I thought the Beyer MMX300 (DT770) were supposed to be bass monsters? How is my Astro a40 outdoing them?

 

[Swingtops]

Welcome to Head-Fi ( sorry about your wallet )!

I'll try to help you out a bit here - I have the DT770/80's and I will say without an amp of some sort the bass is just not good. The 32 ohm version should be a bit easier to drive but taking a quick look at the specs says different. The sensitivity of the a40's is 104db while the beyers are 96db, this difference would explain why you are having trouble hearing the really low frequencies. The frequency range on the beyers is wider so that explains why you can hear the lower frequencies. I am guessing that you have the same problem as I do - I really want headphones that can produce bass levels like a subwoofer. I think for a reasonable price the DT770/80 is about as close as you can get. There is just no replacement for a sub- big cone = big pressure changes = more db. I can say with confidence that the DT770's will have much better bass but it was not quite what I was expecting either.

But back to the problem at hand, some of your problem could be amplification. If you can hook them up to a source like a receiver or stereo and do a comparison it might tell you a bit more. The other thing that could be happening is that the A40's could have a darker response curve - meaning the lower frequencies will come out more. I would try both with some amplification if possible and go from there.

Hope this gives you a little direction

 

[Falkentyne]

Hello and thank you, Swingtops,

Where did you get the technical specifications for the A40? It's not in the manual, and I can't find it on their website either. I'd love to see those so I can compare them side by side

I read on several posts that the 32ohm versions didn't need amplification (the mmx300 is identical to the DT770 32ohm), but no one in any of those posts mentioned bass. The quality of the mids and highs, the "kick" in the bass and the percussion/drums is much more distinguished in the Beyers, but the overall lows seem a bit lighter, even though the quality is better. Seems even better than my Klipsch promedia Ultra 5.1 satellites. The bass in the beyers also seems better than in the Klipsch speakers, if I turn the subwoofer volume to 0 to hear only the speakers (the klipschs are actually hooked up to a logitech z5500, btw).

So, the higher the sensitivity (104db vs 96) is what affects how easy it is to hear the lows (at least unamped)?

Everyone on the astro forums says that the a40's are tuned to focus on mids/highs, for hearing sounds like footsteps and reloads, and that the the lows are there, but they are nowhere near as good as a Senn or Ars Tehnica headset et al, and thus making them not so great for music.

Should I try a cmoy amp? Would something like this ( Bass Boost cMoy v2.02 Amp - Premium Headphone Amplifier - eBay (item 130377084090 end time Mar-30-10 08:56:07 PDT) ) fit the bill?

 

[ourfpshero]

1st- why an x-fi and a mixamp? the x-fi will turn a 5.1 source into headphone surround with the proper settings, and do it well.

try this: plug the mmx300 directly into the x-fi. set the wave volume at 50%, the regular volume low (dont want to blow ur ears out). turn on some bassy beat music and play with the settings. try a 'V" shape equalizer, also try the bass boost setting, cut off at 50hz.

the x-fi is about as strong as a cmoy. i have had a dt770pro 80 ohm, and the x-fi could make it pound hard with bass. i a guessing that the mixamp has little power

 

[Swingtops]

^^ X2

Here is the link to the dell website where I found the specs
A40 Gaming Headset - Black : Gaming: Console | Dell

The sensitivity is basically the relationship between power coming in and volume heard. So the higher the sensitivity the less power it takes to create the same sound pressure level.

As for the cmoy - I have never used one but it seems like it wouldn't have the power you need. If you want to build an amp I would suggest the Millett Starving Student hybrid amp - mine works great with my DT770/80s and lets face it tubes are just cool.

 

[Falkentyne]

Thanks for the replies, guys. And thank you for the explanation and datasheet, swingstops.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ourfpshero /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1st- why an x-fi and a mixamp? the x-fi will turn a 5.1 source into headphone surround with the proper settings, and do it well. try this: plug the mmx300 directly into the x-fi. set the wave volume at 50%, the regular volume low (dont want to blow ur ears out). turn on some bassy beat music and play with the settings. try a 'V" shape equalizer, also try the bass boost setting, cut off at 50hz. the x-fi is about as strong as a cmoy. i have had a dt770pro 80 ohm, and the x-fi could make it pound hard with bass. i a guessing that the mixamp has little power

Hi,
The reason I got the mixamp was because I bought it with a combo with the A40, and I didn't know how to get "CMSS headphone" working until I actually set the settings to "headphone" in the X-fi panel. I always had it set to "use headphone settings" when plugging in a headphone, but that was never enough to enable headphone CMSS 3D--you actually have to SELECT headphones for it to work..(nowhere does it say that anywhere...I always had it set to 5.1...I don't know if that's FACEPALM worthy or not, though...maybe it is... (PICARD FACEPALM)...argh...anyway....I guess I'm stupid like that...)

BTW, the mixamp gets its signal directly from the X-Fi, and the "amp" levels are the same, so the mixamp is strong enough. That's not the problem; see below.

I bought the MMX300 several months later....(last week). In retrospect now, I wish I had only bought the mixamp...but hey I have two headsets now

That being said, the CMSS3D headphone DOES work very nicely, although Dolby digital (through the mixamp) sounds alot better and more atmosphere (the sounds seem to have more depth; they don't seem to be coming from so close to my head). And of course with the X-Fi only, I lose easy game/voice balance adjustment (for those 12 year old punks who like to start screaming obscenities in voice chat)...though I guess if you really want to hear footsteps louder with basic positioning (instead of them sounding more in the distance with dolby), CMSS3D may be better for hard competition....

Anyway, I found out something VERY interesting several minutes earlier. And I wonder if you techheads can explain what is happening. And I guess this might explain the bass issue here...

I was playing "Painkiller:Battle out of Hell" to test the "heartbeat" heavy drum sound (when you get close to a checkpoint to activate it), and noticed of course, that the Astro A40 had a deeper bass (deeper heartbeat sound) than the MMX300. Then after messing around with the creative bass levels, and switching the headsets back and forth, I noticed something extremely shocking.

When I put the MMX300 on the desk, while I was standing (going to swap headsets), I noticed I could HEAR the heartbeat sound VERY clearly, from the headset, which was about 3 feet under me.

When I did the SAME thing to the Astro a40, putting the headset down 3 feet under me, I could BARELY hear the heart beat sound at all.
Even rotating the cups directly towards me did nothing to improve that. This seemed VERY strange to me...the bass dropoff level was very short distance, even with the cups pointed directly to my ear...the bass didn't seem to "carry" very far. I could hear the highs (in the background music), but the heartbeat was hardly audible.

But with the beyers, the heartbeat bass was VERY audible, even though the cups were turned in towards each other (instead of pointed at me). And putting my hands round the beyer cups, felt like more bass was being produced as well. It indeed felt like a 'bass monster" like this. The bass definitely carried farther with the beyers, but didn't seem to be focused directly at my ear (?)

And when I put on both headsets, the astros seemed to hit deeper--ONLY when the headsets were actually on my head.

So it seems like the beyers are putting out more overall bass (that can be heard without the headset on, while the astros are louder only if they're on your head

Although obviously, the beyers put out cleaner bass overall.

I think this pretty much eliminates me needing any sort of amp, but can someone explain exactly what's going on here? I think this proves that the MMX300 is putting out a LOT more bass, but not directing it all at the ear itself?...

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingtops /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am guessing that you have the same problem as I do - I really want headphones that can produce bass levels like a subwoofer. I think for a reasonable price the DT770/80 is about as close as you can get. There is just no replacement for a sub- big cone = big pressure changes = more db. I can say with confidence that the DT770's will have much better bass but it was not quite what I was expecting either.

Heh, my Sennheiser HD 212 Pro with Creative Audigy and kX Audio drivers setup can put weaker subs to shame by abusing the hardware DSP EQ plugin a little (OK more like A LOT).

If you can't find the bass you're looking for by changing headphone, you can try change sound card and the driver for it. I've heard no other sound cards (X-Fi, Auzentech incl modded Creative drivers at least) with as great bass sound as with kX Audio drivers (which unfortunately only supports Audigy1/2/4 and some other cards due to Creative have released specifications for the drivers only for those yet) and without adding distortion no matter how high you raise the sliders. I don't only want to hear bass, I also want to "feel" it. ;p For me one EQ wasn't enough so added another...

Suppose I'm the biggest basshead that exists. But no I would say I hear the rest of the frequency range perfectly fine, the kX Audio drivers are really awesome, it cannot be described until you've tested them. It's a totally different sound comparing to using Creative's drivers, so much better quality in all possible ways, it's like future X-Fi 2 chip or something.

 

[Swingtops]

I think my DT770s are going to have a hard time outperforming my 12'' sub under my desk
But I am interested in changing drivers on my cards - didn't even know there were other drivers out there.

So the beyers are supposed to be a closed back design(from beyer's website) - but you say they are leaking a lot. That seems odd. If you feel comfortable enough you could get a sheet of dynamat from your local car audio shop ( license plate kit works great ) and seal the inside of the cups. I did that to my 770s and it seemed to help a little - but it sounds like it would help you out quite a bit.

As for the sound dropping off it could be due to the cup design on the cans as to how focused the sound is. But if you can hear the beyers farther away that tells me they are producing more sound pressure

 

[KingStyles]

I have had both the mmx and the a40. The mmx has the better bass but the mixamp doesent drive them as well as the a40 set because of its low sensitivity (mmx- 32 ohm 96db)(a40- 50 ohm 104db). The a40 set has a lot higher sensitivity so it will be louder coming out of the mixamp than the mmx. You have to remember that the a40 headset was designed to specifically work great with the a40 mixamp. The mmx are pretty close to the beyer 770 05 version. They need more than the 70mw to get the most out of them. I could be wrong since I cant seem to find what I am looking for but I think the a40 uses a 40mm driver and the mmx uses a 50mm driver. That might explain why it drives the bass better. That and its a closed can compared to the a40 which is a open can technically.

 

[Falkentyne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingtops /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think my DT770s are going to have a hard time outperforming my 12'' sub under my desk But I am interested in changing drivers on my cards - didn't even know there were other drivers out there. So the beyers are supposed to be a closed back design(from beyer's website) - but you say they are leaking a lot. That seems odd. If you feel comfortable enough you could get a sheet of dynamat from your local car audio shop ( license plate kit works great ) and seal the inside of the cups. I did that to my 770s and it seemed to help a little - but it sounds like it would help you out quite a bit. As for the sound dropping off it could be due to the cup design on the cans as to how focused the sound is. But if you can hear the beyers farther away that tells me they are producing more sound pressure

Hmm thanks again guys.
Yes, the normal sound doesn't really leak that much...only the bass (deep lows)...almost felt like a subwoofer in a way...(remember I was using a loud heartbeat sound sample). That "thump" was so much louder from the beyers than from the astros when both were lying on the desk (and with the beyer cups so close to each other), so definitely felt like the beyers are driving the bass harder overall for sure, but when I put the headsets on, the astros had louder bass, but didn't feel as clean...

 

[UnderTheBridge]

Hey a little off topic, but is the MMX300's mic removable?

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I have the DT770 Pro 80's hooked up to the Mixamp, and they have DEEEEEEP bass for gaming. I don't see how the MMX300 could have less.... but I haven't tried those.