[uselessme]

(Apologies if my English seems awkward; I am still learning the language.)
 
Hello, I am new to Head-Fi (although I have been browsing these forums for a while now.) and created an account because no-one had a specific comparison of (my current setup) the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro (250 ohm) with the Fiio A3 (E11K) amp - versus returning them both for about £150 (~$185) and then buying a pair of AKG K712s, currently around £185 (~$230). Please bear in mind that I am by no means an audio expert.
 
For reference, I only listen to music on CDs with my hi-fi stereo system (a JVC CA-S60RBK) or on Youtube on my laptop, which I am aware that there is a 192kbps quality bottleneck. I sometimes listen to 320kbps MP3s on my laptop as well. I don't own a smartphone. The ratio of laptop : hi-fi listening time is around 1 : 3 (mostly listen using hi-fi). I never listen while travelling and only at home - so it doesn't matter whether sound leaks or not (hence choice of open-backed AKG). I listen to music at least 2-3 hours per day.
 
I notice that the DT990s are V-shaped as reviews say, and I have no complaints about its sound signature - apart from female vocals and percussion tending to sound a little sibilant (close, but not to the point of fatiguing). So I read on, and some users of the Fiio A3 (formerly E11K) commented on its (very) slightly warmer sound signature - which in theory should solve the sibilance problem on the DT990s. The Fiio A3 arrived today and I eagerly tested the difference, both on my hi-fi and on my laptop. To my disappoint, yes - there was a noticeable difference - but not what I had expected it to be (in spite of buying a budget amp like the A3, I am by no means a rich man.). Of course the difference was larger on the laptop, but I don't 'seriously' listen to music on my laptop - I wouldn't care too much whether the amp was present or not.
 
The genre of music I listen to is predominantly J-rock and Vocaloid artists (being Japanese), but I also listen to classical, soft rock, acoustic/country, and pretty much anything besides metal, dubstep, trap, R&B, drum 'n bass, etc. I favour music with creative melody and thoughtful composition/lyrics - the latter which I hold in higher regard. You can say from that, that I am not a massive fan of bass. Most artists I listen to are female.
 
So few days ago, I stumbled across reviews on the AKG K701/702 and AKG K712, and apparently it has a neutral/flat sound signature as well as good ability to bring out imperfections in the music (not suited for low-quality) - which wouldn't be an issue considering my collection comprises of CDs. I prefer a neutral and 'uncolored' signature and these headphones seem perfect for me, especially the AKG K712s - as they, as reviewers say, are essentially an upgrade from the K702s, improving on its artificially wide soundstage, etc..Not to mention they look very nice. I feel that they would bring the recessed mids on the DT990 forward and let the vocals shine, as well as being more suited to the genres I listen to.
 
I look at my DT990 + A3 combo and muse, "Wouldn't it be better to return them both to Amazon and then buy the AKGs with the money?". And so I type this asking for your advice. I apologise and thank those who read to the end of my long anecdote. So what do you think? Should I return them (I am inclined to do so) and get the AKGs? Is there anyone who owns both pairs - and how do they compare? I have around ten days to return both.
 
P.S. I tend to shy away from Sennheiser HD 600/650s due to it overstretching my tight budget. Please don't recommend them to me.

 

[serman005]

  (Apologies if my English seems awkward; I am still learning the language.)
 
Hello, I am new to Head-Fi (although I have been browsing these forums for a while now.) and created an account because no-one had a specific comparison of (my current setup) the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro (250 ohm) with the Fiio A3 (E11K) amp - versus returning them both for about £150 (~$185) and then buying a pair of AKG K712s, currently around £185 (~$230). Please bear in mind that I am by no means an audio expert.
 
For reference, I only listen to music on CDs with my hi-fi stereo system (a JVC CA-S60RBK) or on Youtube on my laptop, which I am aware that there is a 192kbps quality bottleneck. I sometimes listen to 320kbps MP3s on my laptop as well. I don't own a smartphone. The ratio of laptop : hi-fi listening time is around 1 : 3 (mostly listen using hi-fi). I never listen while travelling and only at home - so it doesn't matter whether sound leaks or not (hence choice of open-backed AKG). I listen to music at least 2-3 hours per day.
 
I notice that the DT990s are V-shaped as reviews say, and I have no complaints about its sound signature - apart from female vocals and percussion tending to sound a little sibilant (close, but not to the point of fatiguing). So I read on, and some users of the Fiio A3 (formerly E11K) commented on its (very) slightly warmer sound signature - which in theory should solve the sibilance problem on the DT990s. The Fiio A3 arrived today and I eagerly tested the difference, both on my hi-fi and on my laptop. To my disappoint, yes - there was a noticeable difference - but not what I had expected it to be (in spite of buying a budget amp like the A3, I am by no means a rich man.). Of course the difference was larger on the laptop, but I don't 'seriously' listen to music on my laptop - I wouldn't care too much whether the amp was present or not.
 
The genre of music I listen to is predominantly J-rock and Vocaloid artists (being Japanese), but I also listen to classical, soft rock, acoustic/country, and pretty much anything besides metal, dubstep, trap, R&B, drum 'n bass, etc. I favour music with creative melody and thoughtful composition/lyrics - the latter which I hold in higher regard. You can say from that, that I am not a massive fan of bass. Most artists I listen to are female.
 
So few days ago, I stumbled across reviews on the AKG K701/702 and AKG K712, and apparently it has a neutral/flat sound signature as well as good ability to bring out imperfections in the music (not suited for low-quality) - which wouldn't be an issue considering my collection comprises of CDs. I prefer a neutral and 'uncolored' signature and these headphones seem perfect for me, especially the AKG K712s - as they, as reviewers say, are essentially an upgrade from the K702s, improving on its artificially wide soundstage, etc..Not to mention they look very nice. I feel that they would bring the recessed mids on the DT990 forward and let the vocals shine, as well as being more suited to the genres I listen to.
 
I look at my DT990 + A3 combo and muse, "Wouldn't it be better to return them both to Amazon and then buy the AKGs with the money?". And so I type this asking for your advice. I apologise and thank those who read to the end of my long anecdote. So what do you think? Should I return them (I am inclined to do so) and get the AKGs? Is there anyone who owns both pairs - and how do they compare? I have around ten days to return both.
 
P.S. I tend to shy away from Sennheiser HD 600/650s due to it overstretching my tight budget. Please don't recommend them to me.

I think you should get the HD650. That was a joke. 

 Seriously though, only you can say whether you should sell the DT990-A3 combo and go for the KZZ instead. I will say that I find the K712 Pro to be slightly brightish and to be lacking in bass compared to the DT990. Still, it does not have the level of sibilance the 990 have. It has a very nice soundstage as well (but different than that of the K/Q701/702). One question I have is if you are going to be wanting an amp for the K712--they will need one of some sort or other. If you want something other than your current setup, the KZZ are nice-sounding headphones. Maybe you should just go for it.

 

[uselessme]

Thank you. I am not sure what the KZZ headphones are (Googled 'KZZ headphones' but search returned nothing useful). Could you possibly provide me with a link to its amazon/brand/etc. site?

 

[serman005]

  Thank you. I am not sure what the KZZ headphones are (Googled 'KZZ headphones' but search returned nothing useful). Could you possibly provide me with a link to its amazon/brand/etc. site?

Apologies, I was referring to the K7xx, 701, 702, and 712 Pro all as a group. 

 

[Me x3]

DT990 is more mid-bassy and significantly brighter than K712
K712 is overall flatter but has a warmer/thicker/more laid back tonality.
 
K712 is not necessarily better than DT990 or K702, it's different.
Both AKGs are less v-shaped than DT990.
 
K702 is wider and more of a studio tool in the sense that it's flatter and airier than K712.
K712 is warmer, fuller sounding with a more compact and defined soundstage.
 
DT880 is not as bright as DT990 but still brighter than the AKGs.
The thing is, it's pretty cool sounding, similar to the K702 and HD800 in the bass. Not a great all rounder.
 
HD600/650 are both mid bassy but not like DT990, both are somehow more woolly and slow. Both shine on the midrange and have relatively soft treble. Not much sparkle and both clamp pretty hard.
 
DT990 misses some macro details in the mids and it's not much of a reference headphone unlike the others mentioned.
It can sound pretty darn good with the right recordings though.

 

[uselessme]

  DT990 is more mid-bassy and significantly brighter than K712
K712 is overall flatter but has a warmer/thicker/more laid back tonality.
 
K712 is not necessarily better than DT990 or K702, it's different.
Both AKGs are less v-shaped than DT990.
 
K702 is wider and more of a studio tool in the sense that it's flatter and airier than K712.
K712 is warmer, fuller sounding with a more compact and defined soundstage.
 
DT880 is not as bright as DT990 but still brighter than the AKGs.
The thing is, it's pretty cool sounding, similar to the K702 and HD800 in the bass. Not a great all rounder.
 
HD600/650 are both mid bassy but not like DT990, both are somehow more woolly and slow. Both shine on the midrange and have relatively soft treble. Not much sparkle and both clamp pretty hard.
 
DT990 misses some macro details in the mids and it's not much of a reference headphone unlike the others mentioned.
It can sound pretty darn good with the right recordings though.

Thank you. (I'm assuming you own all of these headphones) What genres of music would you say K712 (and maybe Q701 as well while I'm at it) shine in - and genres which they wouldn't? I've heard from some reviews that the K702 Anniversary Edition sounds similar to K712, and that the Q701 sounds almost identical to the K712, when fitted with K712 pads.

 

[Me x3]

 
Thank you. (I'm assuming you own all of these headphones) What genres of music would you say K712 (and maybe Q701 as well while I'm at it) shine in - and genres which they wouldn't? I've heard from some reviews that the K702 Anniversary Edition sounds similar to K712, and that the Q701 sounds almost identical to the K712, when fitted with K712 pads.

Well, yes...
I don't have the DT990 or HD600 at this point but have them both extensively in the past. I do have DT880/K702/K712/HD650 these days.
Can't talk for the Q701, but I guess it should be similar to K702 or at least closer than the others.
 
K702 and K712 are kind of reminiscent, but K712 sounds more focused, more incisive and thicker.
I haven't listened to K702 with K712 pads, but I've measured that combination and it measures very close to K712.
 
More often than not, I grab K702 over K712 but that's just me. If you pick top class recordings which are normally warm per se, the K702 tends to provide a more natural/more lively tonal balance to my ears. K712 shine with the same good recordings as the K702, but offers more warmth and just a hint more transparency. The bass is still clean but the overall sound signature can be a tad too warm if you are very picky and prefer very flat headphones. Keep in mind I had two K702 and both sounded different, the first one sn. 102.xxx sounded dry and forward, while the newer sn.129.xxx sounds fuller and warmer (this is the one that measures like K712 when using K712 pads)
 
K702 Annie is similar to K7XX from Massdrop as far as I recall. Even warmer than K712.
Too much warmth for my liking.
 
So, yeah... Both K702 and K712 shine with top class recordings from audiophile labels.
K712 has more warmth so it's potentially a better all rounder while K702 is typically a better match for acoustic, classical, vocal jazz and those "audiophile" genres.
None of these are superb with rock or pop music, although both work quite well with relatively good live pop recordings and also symphonic and gothic metal recordings.

 

[uselessme]

  Well, yes...
I don't have the DT990 or HD600 at this point but have them both extensively in the past. I do have DT880/K702/K712/HD650 these days.
Can't talk for the Q701, but I guess it should be similar to K702 or at least closer than the others.
 
K702 and K712 are kind of reminiscent, but K712 sounds more focused, more incisive and thicker.
I haven't listened to K702 with K712 pads, but I've measured that combination and it measures very close to K712.
 
More often than not, I grab K702 over K712 but that's just me. If you pick top class recordings which are normally warm per se, the K702 tends to provide a more natural/more lively tonal balance to my ears. K712 shine with the same good recordings as the K702, but offers more warmth and just a hint more transparency. The bass is still clean but the overall sound signature can be a tad too warm if you are very picky and prefer very flat headphones. Keep in mind I had two K702 and both sounded different, the first one sn. 102.xxx sounded dry and forward, while the newer sn.129.xxx sounds fuller and warmer (this is the one that measures like K712 when using K712 pads)
 
K702 Annie is similar to K7XX from Massdrop as far as I recall. Even warmer than K712.
Too much warmth for my liking.
 
So, yeah... Both K702 and K712 shine with top class recordings from audiophile labels.
K712 has more warmth so it's potentially a better all rounder while K702 is typically a better match for acoustic, classical, vocal jazz and those "audiophile" genres.
None of these are superb with rock or pop music, although both work quite well with relatively good live pop recordings and also symphonic and gothic metal recordings.

Thank you for insightful explanation; so it comes between K702 and K712.
 
I think it may help if I provide links/samples. I'm aware that Youtube's 192kbps bitrate might not be adequate, but it might solidify your understanding of the sort of genre that I listen to. Once again I thank in advance.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HA9QiksWIc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OmwKZ9r07o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD-E-LDc384
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqxnjgFj1HU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt2wHUJHbbg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XogSflwXgpw

 

[Me x3]

  Thank you for insightful explanation; so it comes between K702 and K712.
 
I think it may help if I provide links/samples. I'm aware that Youtube's 192kbps bitrate might not be adequate, but it might solidify your understanding of the sort of genre that I listen to. Once again I thank in advance.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HA9QiksWIc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OmwKZ9r07o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD-E-LDc384
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqxnjgFj1HU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt2wHUJHbbg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XogSflwXgpw

For those recordings, I would say:
HD650 >> K712 > K702

 

[uselessme]

I suppose this decides it 'case closed' then - I'll stick with the K712s and maybe upgrade to the HD 650 when I become able to financially support myself better.