[Snufkin]

kelly - I appreciate where you're coming from

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It's strange that you disagree so much about the DT831 and yet don't seem to prefer them.

But I understand why some people would - hence subjective

I didn't say they aren't bright, I said they aren't too bright.

But that also depends on what you're listening to.
Put some harsh thrash & wailing guitars on and you'll be blinking along to the music at 5 blinks per second while wondering if the drummer has a cramp in his foot and if the bass guitarist has put a sock over his hand.
But put something more balanced on and there's a lot less to complain about.

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Now of course, subjectively, like or dislike this headphone all you want. I personally thought it was great with horns but couldn't live with its flaws. But whether you like it or not, calling this headphone's frequency response accurate is a tad off base.

And what measured frequency response is 100% accurate? Graphs don't count for much other than a guide to what kind of sound you might expect, do you honestly think a headphone with a perfectly flat frequency response graph would sound good, let alone enjoyable?

There is no 1 headphone to rule them all (not everyone can afford the R10 or Orpheus, not everyone wants to spend that much either), there are also flawed headphones out there, but ultimately it's all about what you enjoy the sound of.

I appreciate the way the DT831 sounds, but I don't enjoy them. I think they sound technically better than the DT250, but again.. the enjoyment factor isn't there for me.
Again : Subjective.

Headroom call the DT831 their favourite closed headphone - I understand and appreciate why, but personally I prefer the DT250, DT770pro and DT531 - that doesn't mean that Headroom are wrong and that the DT831 is terribly bright and lacking in bass

Whoa.

Getting back on topic!

I think it's obvious that it's hard to compare the DT831 and DT770pro (or DT250 for that matter), you really have to hear them to understand the differences. I like each one for a different reason, so the question "which headphone is best" is very hard to answer.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly I don't agree that the 831 has adequate bass or I'd still own the pair I had. I thought it was a great headphone other than being a little bright and having pretty poor bass. (But hey, it's still got more bass than the K501 so maybe it's accurate and the rest of the world is wrong--but that is another story.) The DT250-80 would definitely have been a better headphone for me despite the fact that it's treble and midrange didn't seem nearly as good at the DT831. I feel like the 250 is a good headphone for people who use them with poor sources or maybe sometimes unamped. They're soft in the high frequencies which is often a welcomed relief with poor sources and they have a bit of a midbass hump that makes up for the inadequacies of some portable players amps.

Well said, Kelly. I definitely think that the 831 has better treble and upper midrange than the 250, but the 250 clearly has better lower mids and better bass. To me, the 250 is a much better compromise, because despite the slight "softness" in the highs, overall it's a nicely balanced headphone. The 831 (and 931 IMO) are so lacking at the low end that they end up being quite fatiquing to me.

 

[kelly]

Snufkin

Pardon me. You did actually say too bright and you even initially bolded it for me.

100% accurate measurements? No, I don't imagine those are easy to come by. But what I do imagine is that something like a frequency response chart (at least from the speaker -- perhaps not from the ear) should be fairly measurable. That is, we should be able to agree on an objective definition of flat frequency response even with the forknowledge that it is, like most measurements, imperfect.

I've found that the "flattest" frequency response I have heard comes from Stax headphones and second to that from the Grado HP-1000 headphones. I've seen no measurements of either and would like to see them if anyone can point me in the direction of such things.

Does this mean they sound good? No, of course not, other things go into making something sound "good" besides frequency response (speed and distortions come to mind immediately). However, I personally, tend to prefer a flatter frequency response when all else is equal. That is--the further you stray from that, the more likely I am to dub something a flaw. When I criticize the HD600, the first two things that come to mind are immediately related to frequency response. When I criticize the Grado RS-1, it's brightness is immediately the thing that keeps me from appreciating its other qualities. So... I would not be so quick to dismiss something that so many people do consider quite important.

I do also understand why headroom chose the DT831 as "their" favorite closed headphone but the competition was pretty weak, as far as I'm concerned. I'll reserve judgment on your headphone of choice, the DT770, until I get more quality time with it but it's easier to rule in hell, so to speak.

 

[Snufkin]

Here's what I said

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but not too bright

You'll notice the word "not" in that quote, which tends to change the meaning of the sentence a fair bit.

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I'll reserve judgment on your headphone of choice, the DT770, until I get more quality time with it but it's easier to rule in hell, so to speak.

So you're going to spend more time with the 770pro, and if you don't like it you'll tell me that I'm wrong for enjoying it?

Heck, I think the Sony 7506 is a piece of junk, but I don't go around telling people that they're wrong for liking the way they sound!

I don't hold loyalty to any one headphone, I listen to the DT531 more than any at this time enjoying the more balanced sound over the 770pro for casual listening, it all depends on my mood.
I don't like the idea that there is one overall "best" headphone, just different.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

If you can wait until some time after Saturday, we will get several people's opinions of the 770 vs. 831 question, as I will be bringing both to the DC meet. In fact, the question can be the 770 vs. 831 vs. 931 vs. 990 vs. W100 vs. A100Ti vs. HP-1000 vs. HD600 vs. mystery phones (you have got to see these).

 

[Snufkin]

BTW, for the record; I can understand why not everyone would like the 770pros

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by Snufkin So you're going to spend more time with the 770pro, and if you don't like it you'll tell me that I'm wrong for enjoying it? Heck, I think the Sony 7506 is a piece of junk, but I don't go around telling people that they're wrong for liking the way they sound!

I know people who like to eat poi. Poi!!
I know people who eat Kim-chee -- that's cabbage people BURIED to let rot and then eat it... on purpose!
And don't even get me started about some of the sex stories I've heard, and with such beatly looking nasty people, too.

If you like what you like, you like it. I'm cool with that. I'm even ok if you wanna marry your buddy, Steve. I'd not dream of voting against it.

Nowhever have I ever said you're wrong for liking anything I don't like. So, IF... and this is an IF here, IF I don't like the DT770 AT ALL, please consider that you have my sincerest blessings to enjoy your own 770s to the fullest extent your ownership provides... as long as you don't do anything obscene with it outside of the privacy of your own home (including in public restrooms or parks where children play).

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I don't hold loyalty to any one headphone, I listen to the DT531 more than any at this time enjoying the more balanced sound over the 770pro for casual listening, it all depends on my mood. I don't like the idea that there is one overall "best" headphone, just different.

Philosophy again -- my belief is that while there is not an ideal headphone (that I've heard yet anyway, 770 could be it! I reserve no prejudice. I'll judge after I've properly listened and hopefully for the best.)... that... there could one day be a be all end all headphone.

I often ponder what it would be like if we lived in a world in which an absolutely perfect reproduction of sound was possible. In other words, the sound coming from your thingamajigger sounded in every possible way exactly like it did wherever it was recorded. What would people do then? Would some be happy having won their purist dreams? Would others seek out devices and tweaks to add colorations and distortions back in to make it "better than real"?

 

[Snufkin]

Oh, no way is the 770pro ideal

The bass is insane, the vocal range a little recessed and the high end can lack a -tad- detail now and then....




But I love it!
I love the head-shaking goodness, I love the way you can play harsh, screamy punkabilly or industrial on them and turn them up to tinnitus-inducing levels and not wince every time a high note is played. When I want to rock out, these are my headphones of choice.

I don't know if I want to find the perfect headphone, it's a bit like the ideal relationship - if everything is 'perfect' you get bored, if there's a little conflict things stay interesting

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Actually, when I got my 250-ohm DT770Pro's, I hated them. I went back to my 600-ohm's. But I let them burn in some more, and the bass did eventually settle down...hmm...maybe I ought to give those Sennheiser HD560II's another chance...

 

[Tomcat]

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If you can wait until some time after Saturday, we will get several people's opinions of the 770 vs. 831 question, as I will be bringing both to the DC meet. In fact, the question can be the 770 vs. 831 vs. 931 vs. 990 vs. W100 vs. A100Ti vs. HP-1000 vs. HD600 vs. mystery phones (you have got to see these).

Dusty,

you have too many headphones...

I like the DT 770 Pro (250 Ohms) a lot better than the DT 831 - for the same reasons as Snufkin: it's more enjoyable. It's easier to listen to music with it and to forget about the minutiae of the headphone's sound. I feel the same is true - to a lesser degree - for the DT 250-80. So I agree with pretty much everyone: the DT 831 is a bit too bright, analytical and fatiguing and lacks bass response and slam, but the DT 770 Pro and the DT 250 are quite musical and captivating, they are among the best headphones I know.

BTW, kelly, Snufkin, what are you arguing about?

 

[Dusty Chalk]

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Originally posted by Tomcat Dusty, you have too many headphones...

LOL! That's something I never thought I'd hear on this forum. That's like someone at an AA meeting telling someone else that they're a lush!

J/K...not all of those are mine (of the ones I listed, the HP-1000's, A100Ti's, and HD600's won't be mind, but...uh...actually, I have pairs of the A100Ti's and the HD600's).

Alright! So I've got a problem! I'll admit it. Could be worse...I can think of more destructive things to do with my spare time...

I will be posting more comparisons after the meetings. I promise. I think "proper amplification" comes into play here. I've heard bass out of headphones that I haven't heard out of before, with some of my amps.