[Agavehound]

Ok, I originally got Titanium X-fi HD for gaming but now I find myself paying closer attention to the music quality of my equipment.
 
I just got a set of HD 598 and love 'em but now I'm wondering how much better would they sound with an external DAC or DAC + Amp. I'd like to have a bit more bass. I've read the E7/E9 combo helps quite a bit, but are there better alternatives in the $300 range? Portable or not I have no preference.
 
Thanks in advance gang!
 
Regards,
Chas

 

[NamelessPFG]

Get something with S/PDIF input, and use your Titanium HD's S/PDIF output to feed the DAC. For $300, that should be possible.
 
This way, you keep the gaming benefits of a proper X-Fi card, but get any sound quality benefits the DAC may offer over the Titanium HD, possibly a different sound signature entirely since the analog section is presumably what defines the sound signature at the source level.
 
As for what to recommend? Difficult to say since I don't have an external DAC and have no plans to get one any time soon.

 

[Head Injury]

No point in an external amp with that headphone, and the DAC in the sound card is of high quality already.
 
If you want more bass, use an equalizer. Amps don't increase bass unless they're colored, and colored amps aren't a good idea. It's like paying for an equalizer with only one setting.

 

[ramachandra]

I also had problem of the Titanium HD's sound quality and decided to build an external DAC. But thanks to the "high quality" solid electrolyte capacitors on the panel, no way to have a good strong bass. If you change few of the caps close to the corner near the optical output, can make a big improvement. For the analog and optical output both. I`m just about to begin a full modification of the card. Elna Silmic, Cerafine, Tonerex can do the trick. The easiest way to get rid of the SMT capacitors is to twist them with a players. And change of the stock opamps to 2pcs Opa228p for the front and two Opa2228p for the rest. The whole mod not taking more than 10 minutes.



Better than a Titanium HD, is a Modified Titanium HD

 

[NamelessPFG]

You mean that the hardware DSP EQ AND the bass boost function in Game Mode and Entertainment Mode, especially combined, isn't good enough for "strong bass" (probably more like overbearing bass at that point), especially on a sound card that's widely regarded as a bit "warm"-sounding (skewed a bit toward bass)?
 
Of course, it's not feasible without using an external amp or a headphone that requires more than 10% or so volume on the card side, or else you'll have clipping issues. (Not like that's hard with most dynamic headphones...just going around 7% or 8% can be unbearably loud straight out of the headphone jack.)

 

[stv014]

Quote:

But thanks to the "high quality" solid electrolyte capacitors on the panel, no way to have a good strong bass. If you change few of the caps close to the corner near the optical output, can make a big improvement. For the analog and optical output both.

 
Replacing capacitors improves the quality of digital output ?

 

 

[ramachandra]

I'm not exactly sure how it works because i have no schematic, and I have not found any lead on forums how to make changes yet. I have a reason to think that they are related to the power of the X-Fi chip.

Because of my 250ohm DT-990 pro headphone, i can have a different experience about the sound. One thing for sure the Elnas are improving the deepness of bass in a natural way, what i can not do with a software equalizer. I have made some modification on the the previous X-Fi models, and i can say that the Audio Grade capacitors are really matters. The older X-Fi cards have Jamicon, G-Luxon capacitors. They are nothing but a joke for HQ audio. This card have more durable caps, other than that are they better? I can tell more after few weeks when i have time and the components to progress further.

 

[PurpleAngel]

The Titanium HD headphone output is rated up to 330-Ohms, but Creative Labs appears to have figured out a way to power headphones without a dedicated headphone amplifier.
The Titanium HD uses 2 (dual channel) JRC2114 op-amps and 2 (single channel) LME49710NAs op-amps
Lots of users have replaced the (dual channel) JRC2114s with (dual channel) LME49720NAs.
I use the LME49860NAs (2 for $12), same as the LME49720NAs, but with more voltage range.
Replacing the two JRC2114 might change the headphone sound more to your liking.
Only costs $12 to try.
 
You could add an external (non-DAC) headphone amplifier, going RCA jacks to RCA jacks, just use the DACs already built into the Titanium HD.
Using a tube headphone amplifier will add "warmth" and "soul" to the headphone sound.
But the Sennheiser HD-598 (50-Ohm) might benefit more from a solid state headphone amplifier.
Just have to find the right headphone amplifier to work with 50-Ohm headphones.
Maybe a Schiit Asgard?
 

 

[aleki]

I'm just popping by to say that I have a newfound love for my Titanium HD. I was using the RCA outs to channel the sound to my Fiio e9, and have been fairly happy with the result for quite some time; with my HD650's, however, the performance really left me wishing I had a better Amp..
Anyway, just today, I decided to plug my HD650's directly from the HP out port on the sound card..
Quite simply, I am blown away on how much tighter and richer everything sounds; the headphones have sprung to life just by switching to the HP out jack. I feel we may have underestimated this card as a very competent budget amplifier.
Head-fi members, be on the lookout for a modestly priced and gently used e9 from me shortly 

 

[NamelessPFG]

 
Quote:

The Titanium HD headphone output is rated up to 330-Ohms, but Creative Labs appears to have figured out a way to power headphones without a dedicated headphone amplifier.

 

Everyone seems surprised about this...how many sound cards aren't advertised as bearing a "dedicated headphone amp", but allow headphones plugged into them to function to some extent (excluding electrostatics)? Pretty much all of them, right? Every analog output is amplified in some way; it's just a matter of how the amplification circuit is designed.
 
So how would a headphone-out be amplified differently compared to a speaker line-out, I wonder? Impedance? Current? Voltage? (Word is that the Titanium HD's headphone-out doesn't use the buffer opamps like the RCA-outs, for a start...)
 
Quote:

I'm just popping by to say that I have a newfound love for my Titanium HD. I was using the RCA outs to channel the sound to my Fiio e9, and have been fairly happy with the result for quite some time; with my HD650's, however, the performance really left me wishing I had a better Amp..
Anyway, just today, I decided to plug my HD650's directly from the HP out port on the sound card..
Quite simply, I am blown away on how much tighter and richer everything sounds; the headphones have sprung to life just by switching to the HP out jack. I feel we may have underestimated this card as a very competent budget amplifier.
Head-fi members, be on the lookout for a modestly priced and gently used e9 from me shortly 

Well, that's a surprise. I can't say I have any demanding, insensitive dynamic/ortho headphones to test the headphone-out jack on the Titanium HD, and my preference for Stax forces me to use an external amp anyway.

 

[aleki]

Quote:

Well, that's a surprise. I can't say I have any demanding, insensitive dynamic/ortho headphones to test the headphone-out jack on the Titanium HD, and my preference for Stax forces me to use an external amp anyway.

It took me by surprise too. I was slightly biased torwards my HD598 over my HD650's; but after listening to both with just the THD, the HD650 simply blows the 598 away with its depth of detail and imaging. although there's still a delicate/airy sound that I love in the 598. My preference has now teetered over to the 650..
I think I opened up a can of worms here; I've been pricing out my next amp upgrade after personally hearing how well the 650 scales with higher quality sources 

 

[darkswordsman17]

I've gotta agree, it sounds quite impressively good right out of the headphone jack. My current headphones (W5000 drivers) sound very nice.
 
I actually bought a Fiio e10 and at first thought it sounded a bit more detailed and it sounded like it was layering like I first remember the W5000 doing. Then I switched back and noticed that all the detail was there, as was the layering. There was nothing missing compared to the e10, but the soundstage was wider (sounded more like a stage, whereas the e10 sounded like I was pointed at a corner of a room where the band was playing, definitely sounded more left/right imaged). In short, the TitaniumHD was smoother and more natural, and the soundscape was more coherent. It seems to me that the W5000 images oddly on some sources, where the layering is more apparent. It did the same thing straight out of the integrated audio on a couple of PCs that I had. With better sources/amps it images just as well but sounds more coherent which kinda tricks you into not noticing the layering as much.
 
I have to admit I also was wanting to try out the bass boost of the e10 and while I enjoyed it, it definitely wasn't quite what I'd like (boost started too high in the frequency spectrum). I played around in the Creative panel (finally actually switched to the gaming panel) and, the bass boost there is preferable to my ears. For one you can adjust it (0-12dB and Cutoff, which with headphones doesn't actually cutoff it actually lets you choose where to focus the boost at). I've been putting about a 5dB boost centered around 50Hz. I'm not noticing any difference in sound compared to the Creation panel with everything turned off and I'm not hearing any distortion from the bass boost (but the boost definitely helps the visceral feel of the sub-bass). Its definitely a step up from the EQ.
 
It might not have a dedicated headphone amp circuit, but my personal experience seems to indicate it does pretty well (I have a hunch it'd be better than the Essence cards with low impedance headphones). Interesting to hear it works well with the HD-650s. I'm not shocked though, as I think they're a good headphone that can really show your upper chain, and I think the TitaniumHD is a pretty good source and the "amp" works more like a clean volume control for that versus a typical amp (which personally is what I think is actually best for a lot of headphones; just starting with a cleaner source helps a lot, and I'd guess it amps as well or better than many DAPs).
 
It reminds me a lot of the Sansa players. Perhaps not spectacular, but competent, smooth, and somehow just kinda "right".

 

[aleki]

Quote:

I've gotta agree, it sounds quite impressively good right out of the headphone jack. My current headphones (W5000 drivers) sound very nice.
 
I actually bought a Fiio e10 and at first thought it sounded a bit more detailed and it sounded like it was layering like I first remember the W5000 doing. Then I switched back and noticed that all the detail was there, as was the layering. There was nothing missing compared to the e10, but the soundstage was wider (sounded more like a stage, whereas the e10 sounded like I was pointed at a corner of a room where the band was playing, definitely sounded more left/right imaged). In short, the TitaniumHD was smoother and more natural, and the soundscape was more coherent. It seems to me that the W5000 images oddly on some sources, where the layering is more apparent. It did the same thing straight out of the integrated audio on a couple of PCs that I had. With better sources/amps it images just as well but sounds more coherent which kinda tricks you into not noticing the layering as much.
 
I have to admit I also was wanting to try out the bass boost of the e10 and while I enjoyed it, it definitely wasn't quite what I'd like (boost started too high in the frequency spectrum). I played around in the Creative panel (finally actually switched to the gaming panel) and, the bass boost there is preferable to my ears. For one you can adjust it (0-12dB and Cutoff, which with headphones doesn't actually cutoff it actually lets you choose where to focus the boost at). I've been putting about a 5dB boost centered around 50Hz. I'm not noticing any difference in sound compared to the Creation panel with everything turned off and I'm not hearing any distortion from the bass boost (but the boost definitely helps the visceral feel of the sub-bass). Its definitely a step up from the EQ.
 
It might not have a dedicated headphone amp circuit, but my personal experience seems to indicate it does pretty well (I have a hunch it'd be better than the Essence cards with low impedance headphones). Interesting to hear it works well with the HD-650s. I'm not shocked though, as I think they're a good headphone that can really show your upper chain, and I think the TitaniumHD is a pretty good source and the "amp" works more like a clean volume control for that versus a typical amp (which personally is what I think is actually best for a lot of headphones; just starting with a cleaner source helps a lot, and I'd guess it amps as well or better than many DAPs).
 
It reminds me a lot of the Sansa players. Perhaps not spectacular, but competent, smooth, and somehow just kinda "right".

What I find interesting is how the front panel out is rated for 2Vrms and 24bit/192khz where the headphone out in the back is rated for 1Vrms and 24/96kbit. I'm curious to know if anyone has a better experience with the front panel over the rear. Unfortunately, I cant test it myself because the front panel jack picks up a ton of interference