[varro]

I have hard time to hear differences between dacs. I can hardly hear difference even between the "emu0404" and "aqvox usb da2".

What to listen and what kind of test should I use? I have been listening to lossless music through unison unico and akg k1000.

Or should the differences really be that huge, to hear them immidiately? Maybe im just deaf..

 

[applebook]

What kind of music do you listen to? Some music just sound poor out of almost any system, and some sound decent out of transistor radios.

That gear that you have is pretty darn good, so the limitations on your end certainly aren't the headphones. If you don't hear much difference between the two DACs, then to you there ISN'T any difference, and that's what's important.

 

[varro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook What kind of music do you listen to? Some music just sound poor out of almost any system, and some sound decent out of transistor radios. That gear that you have is pretty darn good, so the limitations on your end certainly aren't the headphones. If you don't hear much difference between the two DACs, then to you there ISN'T any difference, and that's what's important.

I have been listening to "Rinneradio - Joik" "Jane Siberry - When I was a boy" "Eric Clapton - Unplugged" and "The Replacements - Let it Be".

I mean that I can't hear the differences in testing, im not sure if that means its the same in a long-term usage too. I got two weeks to test this dac, until I have to return it (if I want to get my money back). This is why im trying to find the best way to discover the differences. If im listening to wrong things and have wrong methods for testing, I might not realize the difference in time. And evaluate are they really worth it.

 

[smartins]

I thought that myself when I got the Lavry DA10 and was using the Entech 203.2.

After listening to the DA10 for a about a week and listening again to the 203.2 the difference is *very* noticeable, in favor of the DA10.

So I guess you should listen to one exclusively for a few days and then try the other to then see if you notice any apparent difference.

 

[rumatt]

I find that when I do A - B tests and I try really hard to identify the differences, I can't discover anything and I just get a headache.

However, if I just use the DAC for a little while and listen to some varying types of music, you start to notice things that you didn't notice before. Then I switch back to the first one, and repeat. This worked for me when comparing two drastically different dacs. If they were more similar, I might never notice the difference.

It's also possible that your other equipment is hiding the differences.

 

[proglife]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumatt It's also possible that your other equipment is hiding the differences.

Very possible. Sell the more expensive unit and spend the difference on music.

 

[studeb]

How about with your ears?

When A/B ing stuff, i find that if i cannot hear the difference in the first few seconds, its not going to be readily apparent. If you can't hear the difference, then keep the cheaper, and spend the rest on something else.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumatt I find that when I do A - B tests and I try really hard to identify the differences, I can't discover anything and I just get a headache. However, if I just use the DAC for a little while and listen to some varying types of music, you start to notice things that you didn't notice before. Then I switch back to the first one, and repeat.

I agree with this approach. It is very hard, IMO, to hear differences switching back and forth every few seconds. But after you have had time to become accustomed to a certain sound or presentation, changing a component often reveals a quite noticeable difference in sound.

 

[rumatt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by studeb When A/B ing stuff, i find that if i cannot hear the difference in the first few seconds, its not going to be readily apparent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS It is very hard, IMO, to hear differences switching back and forth every few seconds.

Just goes to show different people use different approaches... Whatever works for you.

 

[regal]

Do the udial clipping test, it showed my DAC was defective till I fixed it.

 

[hciman77]

Whether you do instant switches or long term swaps blind testing with very careful volume matching is the only way to ensure that human bias does not come into it.

Just get a pal to adjust the level and hide which device is connected with a towel or something but leave both connected and powered up. take as long to listen to any source as you like. If there is a real difference you will be able to detect it without knowing what you are listening to. If you know what you are listening too it is impossible to remove bias, generally (but not always) the more expensive will sound better

 

[studeb]

i think that i should say that i do not like switching back and forth after a few seconds. i play a track or two then switch and replay the tracks.

Listen to the music, if there are differences, you will hear them.
Did you say or think, "Hey where did that come from i never heard that bit before' when you were listening?

 

[Scrith]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumatt I find that when I do A - B tests and I try really hard to identify the differences, I can't discover anything and I just get a headache.

Yes...this is something A/B zealots never acknowledge. I think A/B testing is one of the WORST ways of comparing equipment/software...focusing intently on a short snippet of music rarely results in a positive difference for me. But if I let myself use the new device/cable/whatever for awhile (1 hour to 1 week) listening to familiar music, I begin to hear things that were not there before (or notice that some things are now missing). At that point I'll often try the A/B test again...and, surprise, the difference is now noticeable. I wonder how many useful improvements have been thrown away because some person who is convinced that A/B tests are the only means of determining an improvement didn't hear something with their useless quick comparison.

 

[dknightd]

Sometimes the differences are obvious, sometimes not. With most DACs these days the difference is small (this was not true 20 years ago). If I don't notice a difference on day one, here is what I do. Listen to the new piece only for a week or two. Then try the comparison again. Sometimes this will reveal differences you did not notice right away. If the new piece doesn't make you happy, return it. If it makes you happy even though you can't pass a blind a/b test, then keep it. I think the goal here is to be happy.

 

[Riboge]

I agree with those that say you need to accustom yourself to the new item for a while noting anything new you become aware of or anything now missing you used to hear with the not-new item. Then the most telling test is to switch back to the not-new item after this period because any differences will be much more apparent.

Further, while being blind to what you're listening to can remove bias, or one kind of bias, there are other factors like lack of training about how to listen and what to listen for to distinguish any differences, lack of belief or sufficient motivation to give sufficient effort or attention to determine differences or at least the qualities of the new item. Knowing that it is the new item you are listening to and that it is expected to be different can alert and attune one to a heightened ability to note its characteristics and the difference it makes. That is, expectation can cause one to wrongly perceive difference or conversely to better discern difference.