[JoeinLA]

not sure if this post goes here (I also posted in the recommendations forum):

I have $2-$4k to blow on an upgrade for my headphone setup. Obviously I'd prefer to spend closer to $2k, but I will pay for the superior experience. Would like to buy new but would consider used. ALL OPINIONS/SUGGESTIONS/THOUGHTS welcomed.

I'm currently running Fostex TH-900 and Senn HD800 with Headroom "Maxx'ed". I concede the HD800's are technically better, but I enjoy the TH-900's much more. Music: Mozart (only classical I like but I LOVE and listen 50%) and Queen/GnR/Metallica/etc (angry young man 80's music).

Sources: Only 2: Spotify (HiFI) when listening to random favorites. Foobar (FLAC rips) when seriously listening.

My recent experiences:

Headroom: thought this was D-Shiznit until:

Woo Firefly (w/power supply): AMAZING with TH900's but not sure with HD800.

Woo WA22 - almost transcendental with HD800s, but not sure about TH-900's. I might say the Firefly was better with the TH-900.

Mc MHA100 / Moon 430HA: Crystal clear perfection (I think the Moon was better than the Mc) with the TH900, but almost "sterile" (I hate that word but it really does fit) with the HD800's (and TH900's). I think I prefer the Woo Firely with the TH900's and the WA22 with the HD800's.

OK. I have up to $2-4k to waste on a headphone experience upgrade. I'll spend for perfection but not looking to waste money...

Thanks!

 

[D2Girls]

Pass Labs HPA-1
wait,,, so aside from the two headphones you have, do you have any other source gear or was the stuff you mentioned just stuff you heard at a show?

 

[JoeinLA]

Pass Labs HPA-1
wait,,, so aside from the two headphones you have, do you have any other source gear or was the stuff you mentioned just stuff you heard at a show?

I also have Denon AH-D7000 (the out of production older top of line model, AMAZING but eclipsed in all respects by TH900), Massdrop THX-X00 (good but not at the same level as Denon or TH-900), HD650 (affirmatively dislike), Sony MDR-something (bought 25-ish years ago (?!? damn i'm old) and thought were D-shitznit until i found this stupid website), and some other crappy headphones... I have an ODAC and other stuff (crap) when I tried to convince myself that all amps sounded the same...

i listened to the Woo Audio and Moon Audio at a local store - i wasted a bunch of time there and they were pissed when I didn't actually buy something... (ha essentially told me to not come back What). I had an Mc100 for a couple weeks but I returned it after it died (ironically ended up buying MC452 *and* 8207 for my speaker/HT setup).

Hope this helps with perspective / tastes / whatever.

 

[SeaWo|f]

Dac might be worth while upgrade. But I would say if you could swing 5k, holo audio spring dad lvl 1 with the pass labs amp or head amp gsx mkii.

I would also consider a pure bipolar from mjolnir, that and the holo would come in below 4k.

Head amp will also have a gs1 balanced soon which could be a good option. Pricing should be below the gsx mkii. So maybe with he hollow under 4k.

Schiit Gumby could be an option too for a day but based on what it offers vs the holo I would learn the other way.

Depending on where the new gs1 comes in that plus a audio gd r7 could be an option under 4k too. Or a yggy plus gs1. Subbing a moonlit pure bipolar for the gs1 would be an option too but a bit more than you are considering.

 

[JoeinLA]

Dac might be worth while upgrade. But I would say if you could swing 5k, holo audio spring dad lvl 1 with the pass labs amp or head amp gsx mkii.

I would also consider a pure bipolar from mjolnir, that and the holo would come in below 4k.

Head amp will also have a gs1 balanced soon which could be a good option. Pricing should be below the gsx mkii. So maybe with he hollow under 4k.

Schiit Gumby could be an option too for a day but based on what it offers vs the holo I would learn the other way.

Depending on where the new gs1 comes in that plus a audio gd r7 could be an option under 4k too. Or a yggy plus gs1. Subbing a moonlit pure bipolar for the gs1 would be an option too but a bit more than you are considering.

i'm near a Schitt store so I guess I could go there tomorrow and give them a listen. They seem well reviewed.

I had a thought that perhaps the headroom "amp" was still good but that the DAC was outdated... I could try just replacing the DAC and see how that changes things...?

the biggest problem I have with certain brands is that I can't really audition them without just buying them...

lastly re: budget, I started hoping to stay at $2k but at a certain point it's all in or not in... I'm not made of money but if you told me that spending $5k would buy me the greatest listening experience that Hellen Keller could ever experience I'd look into that for sure.

 

[SeaWo|f]

Laws of diminishing returns come in hard and fast with audio. Small difference are huge to some. I cannot predict at what point along the line your satisfaction resides.

I own a rag and for it's price I think it's a great value. But I also feel you need to spend a bit more than your lower price point because a better amp with your hd8000s will magnify your source.

I also feel like an upgrade for the rag may not be far off so I hold on that as a recommendation.

 

[D2Girls]

I also have Denon AH-D7000 (the out of production older top of line model, AMAZING but eclipsed in all respects by TH900), Massdrop THX-X00 (good but not at the same level as Denon or TH-900), HD650 (affirmatively dislike), Sony MDR-something (bought 25-ish years ago (?!? damn i'm old) and thought were D-****znit until i found this stupid website), and some other crappy headphones... I have an ODAC and other stuff (crap) when I tried to convince myself that all amps sounded the same...

i listened to the Woo Audio and Moon Audio at a local store - i wasted a bunch of time there and they were pissed when I didn't actually buy something... (ha essentially told me to not come back What). I had an Mc100 for a couple weeks but I returned it after it died (ironically ended up buying MC452 *and* 8207 for my speaker/HT setup).

Hope this helps with perspective / tastes / whatever.

thats horrible that those guys told you not to come back. did you tell them you planned to buy something? even then, thats bizarre that they burned that bridge to lose you as a potential customer. i want to say im not surprised... got treated the same way actually... these old fat balding guys who man these hifi stores tend to be pretty mean spirited. guess you have to get lucky and pray that you get a nice understanding hifi shop in your local area. im sure theres plenty of good salespeople in different stores. just keep trying.

i stand by my reccomendation of the pass hpa-1 based on what i've heard from other people who have it and my taste in sound. i havent actually heard it but... i do own several bits of pass labs gear myself and can attest to their astounding sound and build quality.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

My first suggestion would be to be patient, very patient, until you are sure what transducer you wish to maximize. It sounds like you don't like the HD800 very much. Are you trying to find a way to enjoy the HD800? Figure that out first. The HD800 scales incredibly high but rewards a system focused on enhancing its strengths without minimizing its weaknesses. If you feel you don't care for the HD800, sell it. If you're not modding it, you're getting hit with a huge spike at 6 khz, well-documented, that would explain why many find it less than pleasant to listen to. A simple and essential mod--also easily reversible-- is to purchase the SuperDepontResonator from sorrodje. The HD800 becomes very enjoyable if you attend to building a system around it, but I'm afraid it will cost money. It will be a lost cause if you don't care for it in the first place.

If you're driving the TH-900, you make your life much easier for building up the baseline of a good system. You need a better DAC, but you also shouldn't skimp on source (what feeds the DAC). In addition to the Holo Spring mentioned above, I'd look seriously into Schiit Gungnir Multibit (which either has a silent upgrade to its analog stage already in production, or will so soon), Soekris 1541, or RME ADI-2 DAC. For source, again, I'd be patient for the time being. A very cost-efficient solution would be to purchase an Eitr from Schiit. If you go the Gumby route, skip this and go for Gen 5 USB. Eitr is excellent value for money. Better options are available, but will cost much more. At the minimum, at least get this to clean your USB up.

For amps, I can't speak to any that you mentioned. I just know the ZDS, which I use to drive the Utopia with excellent results, is said to pair well the the TH-900, which I haven't heard. Benchmark is releasing a new amp, not exactly cheap, this summer, which may be a game-changer. I'd possibly look into the Lyr 3 for the time being, if you're in a hurry. I see an Oppo HA-1 in the for-sale section, which has an excellent amp section; I'd pair it with a better DAC, though. Otherwise, patience is a virtue

 

[SeaWo|f]

Feel I need weigh in on the conduct of the store you visited. My wife and I often go to high-end places in various industries and my parents do the same and their purchasing power far out weighs myself.

I often wear plastic Adidas soccer sandles, a sockers FC t shirt. My dad wears jeans and a harley shirt. My mom favors sweats like myself. So none of us ever looks like we could buy any thing. We may visit places many times before if ever make a purchase.

I am from Chicago I have never experienced anything like you have described. Whatever this place this was deserves to be called out my name. My 2 C.

Any reputable store should understand you cannot take things at face value and especially at places charging top dollar. All customers need to be treated with respect. Believe me when I say in Chicago when this has mno happened places have been forced to close.

 

[baiyy1986]

I agree with others, upgrade your dac.
I used to doubt good dac.
But after I upgrade from Modi Multibit to mojo and now master 11, even these are not best DAC in the world but these difference totally change my thought.
I also have hd800 and th900,
hd800 scales very good, more you feed more you get. I like TH 900, very entertaining, but it don't need good gear to sound good.
If you like your Headphone, upgrade some cable or some small things first maybe USB purifier. I found these small things sometimes surprise so much.
And I would suggest upgrade amp last.

 

[baiyy1986]

My other suggestion is to give up hd800, try hd800s,
Not because HD800 is not great, but obviously you have a lot of good headphones that are easy to drive except HD800.
HD800 is like a queen, too hard to make her happy.
At least I used most of the time try to make her happy.
Still try small stuff first, use less money to give you maximum improvement.
Also, don't try tube amp if you are not sure what you want.
Tubes are much more sophisticated. you may end up burns more money than the amp itself.

 

[SeaWo|f]

Honestly I think the biggest hurdle to tube amps is that so many builders, especially in the last 10 years, play to properties of tubes that should be mitigated. Even with amps that occupy high price brackets. Tubes like sand as are a means to an end not the destination. Time and research can lead to great amps based on valves.

I am not a big fan of the hd800 but in the right system it b can excel.

 

[JoeinLA]

Thanks for all the input! I'm going to check out the Schitt store near me today - I might consider the DAC upgrade first since it sounds like the weakest link so far and the Headroom is a bit old on the DAC technology-front.

Re: the store that I went to, it's Shelley's Stereo in Woodland Hills near Los Angeles - they were a close-by Woo Audio dealer so I checked them out. they were friendly enough (and I was pretty close to getting the Firefly) until I ended up buying the MHA100 from Audiogon - I went back to look at stuff for my Stereo/HT setup and they were like "you wasted all our time on your headphone search, are you going to do the same thing with your stereo search?" (paraphrasing). The owner even said "I don't think you're the type of customer we want to build a relationship with" (pretty sure that's a direct quote). Heh What - I note that I went there 3 times and spent ~45 mins each time just going back and forth between their setups (i.e, it's not like I sat there for four hours taking up the store's time, eating chips, watching TV, etc. ). It's just a footnote to this discussion but, yeah, I've never been treated like that and I've purchased relatively high-ticket items (and I tend to go back a few times to make sure I'm comfortable with my decision, especially when I'm spending a decent hunk of change). Anyways, yeah, totally bizarre. Honestly, it all worked out b/c I ended up going somewhere else (Magnolia HiFi) and got talked into an MC452 *AND* 8207 - so I'll take the karma there.

 

[D2Girls]

I already told two of my friends who live in LA NOT to ever visit there. Though they aren't audiophiles (yet) Justice is served

 

[baiyy1986]

Thanks for all the input! I'm going to check out the Schitt store near me today - I might consider the DAC upgrade first since it sounds like the weakest link so far and the Headroom is a bit old on the DAC technology-front.

Re: the store that I went to, it's Shelley's Stereo in Woodland Hills near Los Angeles - they were a close-by Woo Audio dealer so I checked them out. they were friendly enough (and I was pretty close to getting the Firefly) until I ended up buying the MHA100 from Audiogon - I went back to look at stuff for my Stereo/HT setup and they were like "you wasted all our time on your headphone search, are you going to do the same thing with your stereo search?" (paraphrasing). The owner even said "I don't think you're the type of customer we want to build a relationship with" (pretty sure that's a direct quote). Heh What - I note that I went there 3 times and spent ~45 mins each time just going back and forth between their setups (i.e, it's not like I sat there for four hours taking up the store's time, eating chips, watching TV, etc. ). It's just a footnote to this discussion but, yeah, I've never been treated like that and I've purchased relatively high-ticket items (and I tend to go back a few times to make sure I'm comfortable with my decision, especially when I'm spending a decent hunk of change). Anyways, yeah, totally bizarre. Honestly, it all worked out b/c I ended up going somewhere else (Magnolia HiFi) and got talked into an MC452 *AND* 8207 - so I'll take the karma there.

Man, that is not good at all.
The first thing to run business is patient.
But glad you have someplace to test, the city I live now, the only thing I can do is to imagine how good sound is from some gear I want.