[toaster]

I recently purchased the shure e3c. Now that i have heard the shure sound, I will probably be purchasing the e5's in the next few months. I currently do most of my listening out of an ipod (with the e3c) but am very interested in purchasing a cdp, sticking it by my papasan and relaxing at home. I know without an amp i will not get the full potential out of whatever headphones i am driving, but i think i will be more than satisified with the e5's out of a good cdp. Any recommendations on a cdp that has a good direct headphone out? Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[cary]

i agree with you about the shures for ampless listening; as far as your other question goes, you might have a better shot getting an answer in the portable audio forum, though it is generally agreed that the older sonys have the most powerful headphone output.

 

[lindrone]

I'm guessing you're talking about a desktop cd players, not a portable cd player, correct?

I can only speak from my personal experience, which isn't all that much... but both the Sony CE775 and 222ES are excellent CD/SACD players with adequate headphone output. Since the E5 is pretty easy to drive anyway, you can get a pretty ample amount of clarity and improvement in sound over the iPod with even just the headphone jack.

CE775 is a bargain, if you can find it... I got mine for $150. If you get serious about it later, you can send it to SACDmods for modification to make it into an even better source.

 

[bangraman]

The E5 is a comfortable, decently entertaining but I think they are not that much of a technically challenging listen with good home equipment. A whole lot of headphones at the same price or just a bit more (and even less) do things a lot better.


The Sony SCD-XA9000ES,s headphone jack sounds perfectly OK with the E5. However I doubt the headphone amp in even upper-midrange players like the 9000ES exceeds the capabilities of even a META by any huge margin. My recommendation would be to purchase a well regarded budget deck and stick at least a Headsave PIMETA on.

 

[rsaavedra]

Haven't heard it, but I noticed recently the Marantz SA8260 has a headphone jack. That player (SACD/CD) is Stereophile Class A, I guess its headphone jack should be very good.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally posted by bangraman My recommendation would be to purchase a well regarded budget deck and stick at least a Headsave PIMETA on.

I would agree with that, although I disagree that the E5 doesn't scale up to be enjoyable.. of course, I wouldn't say it's "critical" listening, but E5 sounds absolutely incredible in my setup

CE775 => HR-2 => E5c

Soon to be a hotrodded CE775... yipee!!!..

 

[toaster]

Thanks guys. 2 things...

Lindrone: I know the CE775 came out a while ago, so you might not remember details about it, but if you could, could you tell a little bit about it when you say it's "excellent." Also, did you get it modded by matt and if so what were your impressions after?
...lol well there goes half of that post. i just checked back to see if anyone else said anything and of course lindrone who always seems to be one, ok many, steps ahead of me in the realm of audio, is already answering part of my question before i ask it, AND saying what i was going to about bangraman's comment, and here it is...

Bangraman: i know the shures are not the most "technically challenging," headphone, when compared to the etys or hd's for instance. however based on sonic signature and personal preference, the shures deliver what i want, music. the fullness and overall sound of the shures is pleasing enough to me that i have little desire to even try anything else. (interest yes, but DESIRE, not really) i know it might sound odd for this place, but now that i know i love the shure's sound the e5 actally does represent the end of the road for me, at least when it comes to headphones.

Lindrone (seeing you already answered half the question i began asking when i started this post) could you tell me what mod you got and let me know how it sounds when you get it back.

I really appreciate everyone's responses so far.

You know the party's started once lindrone and bangraman show up.

 

[lindrone]

LOL... we're on the same wavelength here. The funny thing is, I really like Shure E5's sound signature, the combination of good detail + great musicality + warmth is really something I have trouble finding on larger size headphones. I use the E5 at home more often than my A900's.

The only headphone I would actually prefer over it, because it's just so vastly even more superior, is the CD3000. Which I just recently got. However, even CD3000 lacks some of that warmth I miss in the E5 when I listen to them. Anyway... all things aside.

CE775 is a pretty smooth and detailed budget source. It's a good budget solution to start off, because you get a 5 disc changer, SACD and CD, both nominal quality at this point, of course. A nice interface and solid construction. As stock, the RCA output isn't much better than the headphone output, so with a low impedance headphone you will hear very little difference.

It is being modified by Matt right now (it'll actually reach his place on Monday, then about two more weeks after that he'll be done, and another week of shipping). So I can't tell you what it'll sound like just yet.

However, my roommate has a 222ES, which is basically the same as the CE775 with upgraded components. After the mod, it has a lot more flow in the music, more warmth and more fluid. Before the mod it really has that thin digital sound, after the mod it becomes a very nice and musical source.

I'm expecting my CE775 to be the same, since the only difference in the stock parts of 222ES and CE775 are both modified to the same degree after the mod. I'll let you know when I get it back in a few weeks.

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally posted by toaster22 the e5 actally does represent the end of the road for me, at least when it comes to headphones.

OK, well that's fair enough. Here's a very wallet saving tip in that case: On no account listen to the RS-1

 

[toaster]

Bangraman: heh. i'd love to hear the RS-1 and see what i thought of it, but as i said before, once i find something i love, i see little reason to seek elsewhere for something to replace it with. often i may take notice of the alternatives, but it is rare that something will actually CHANGE my feelings towards something that has grown on me.

think of it this way:

you find something you love and you realize it IS in fact everything you could ever want. would it be possible that something else could change your feelings about it? for me, at least as far as headphones go, the answer is no. everything else merely causes my placement of what i love to shift when comparing it to "the rest of the pack," in other words knowing how the sonic characteristics of what i like are different from what else is out there, but it does not make me love it any less. audio perferences is a matter of nobody's preference but his or her own. for me, hearing is believing and what i hear with the e3's satisfies me as much as i could ever want from a headphone, regardless of what anyone else says or how any other headphone sounds, including the RS-1.

If the e5 is able to playback smooth over the entire range, flatten the midbass of the e3's and add even just a bit of punchy bass, they will be my ideal headphone. now all i have to do is find my ideal source...

 

[bangraman]

Most headphone amp stages found on regular CD players are something of an afterthought with very generic opamps (usually the heart of a solid state amp) and relatively low-quality circuitry. The dedicated headphone amp is made with better components and better opamps, ensuring less 'smearing' in the sound... resulting in more detail. Detail is good.


While I certainly subscribe to the notion that headphone amps should show up the sound as transparently as possible, most headphone amps also add a little something to the sound. This is the sonic characteristic of the headphone amp. Different amps have different sonic characteristics so you could say that headphone amps also have something of a very subtle fixed tone/EQ element to the sound as well. The other big reason for having a headphone amp is a piece of equipment that supplies optimum amount of power to your phones. You can of course read more about it in the amps section.


Due to it's characteristics, it's not hard to find a headphone amp that drives the E5 well so it's mostly about finding something that makes the most of the source.

 

[lindrone]

What Bangra has said regarding headphone amps is very accurate. I never compared the 222ES's and CE775's headphone output head to head. I do not expect them to be that much difference, since they are both "afterthoughts", and even stock there's a difference that's not *great* (although there are some) between the two using the RCA outputs.

CE775 has a slightly nicer interface and looks nicer though (since it came out after 222ES).

The "thinness" of the CE775 isn't really exposed much by using the E5c, since the E5c is a pretty warm earphone on its own. The thinness is really exposed when you use the CD3000, and yes, even with the HR-2, the source is thin, that's all the HR-2 is getting put into it.. so you can't really get much better.

You should be pretty happy with the sound just with the E5 + headphone output for now anyway. Realistically speaking, the sound is still much, much better than the iPod even just using the headphone output.

Quote:

Here's a very wallet saving tip in that case: On no account listen to the RS-1

I didn't like the RS-1 all that much... but that's just me.. I didn't like any of the Grados that I've ever laid my hands on. Only that I appreciate HP1000's neutrality, but I still would never get it.

 

[toaster]

Bangraman: heh. i'd love to hear the RS-1 and see what i thought of it, but as i said before, once i find something i love, i see little reason to seek elsewhere for something to replace it with. often i may take notice of the alternatives, but it is rare that something will actually CHANGE my feelings towards something that has grown on me.

think of it this way:

you find something you love and you realize it IS in fact everything you could ever want. would it be possible that something else could change your feelings about it? for me, at least as far as headphones go, the answer is no. everything else merely causes my placement of what i love to shift when comparing it to "the rest of the pack," in other words knowing how the sonic characteristics of what i like are different from what else is out there, but it does not make me love it any less. audio preferences is a matter of one's own opinion. for me, hearing is believing and what i hear with the e3's leads me to believe that the e5's have the potential to satisfy me as much as i could ever want from a headphone, regardless of what anyone else says or how any other headphone sounds, including the RS-1. your ideal headphone very well may be the grados.

If the e5 is able to playback smooth over the entire range, flatten the midbass of the e3's and add even just a bit of punchy bass, they will be my ideal headphone. now all i have to do is find my ideal source...

 

[dfong87]

i'm jumping in a little late here, but i thought i should share my experiences:

while the output of a component like a Sony SACD player may have a superior headphone jack to say a portable CD player or ipod (see below), i have found that it is not in the same league as a dedicated headphone amp nor the headphone jack on a decent pre-amp/integrated amp.

[using Etymotic 4P/S and Senn 580s for the following comments:]

my personal experience is that my Sony XA777ES SACD player (whose jack is perhaps no different than the lower end SACD players already mentioned in this thread) has a "good" headphone jack, but i wouldn't say its heads and tails above what comes out of my ipod as has been noted in previous posts (playing a CD on the Sony and a WAV file via the ipod). it's better certainly, but nothing to write home about. i think the only major advantage it has going for it is that it can play much louder.

on the other hand, the difference between the Sony's headphone jack (playing both CDs and SACDs) and the headphone jack out of my Creek integrated amp is huge by comparison. not only is it capable of playing much louder, but the resolution, timbre, blackness of silence, midrange purity, dynamic contrast are all dramatically improved. [i've also recently bought a Total Airhead, and i would say it falls in between the Sony and Creek...closer to the Creek]

my guess is that most headphone jacks out of components are primarily afterthoughts.

Just my 2 bits. Of course, YMMV. best bet is of course to trust your own ears and proceed accordingly.

happy listening!

 

[hottyson]

Quote:

Originally posted by dfong87 while the output of a component like a Sony SACD player may have a superior headphone jack to say a portable CD player or ipod (see below), i have found that it is not in the same league as a dedicated headphone amp nor the headphone jack on a decent pre-amp/integrated amp.

I have a Denon DCM-280 CD changer and it has pretty decent headphone output. When paired with the right headphones I think that this would suffice for almost anyone who has not ever used a headphone amplifier.

However, a META headphone amplifier when built correctly is still the best bargain for the level of quality that you get. The PPA is gaining popularity fast but the META remains the best bang for the buck in my book.

I don't think that everyone needs an amplifier. I could live with just the headphone output if I had too. But since I have a headphone amplifier, don't ask me to.