[neilvg]

So I heard the balanced HD650 at the SF mini meet this saturday and my mind was blown. Seriously, out of all the gear there, including an Orpheus (albeit out of a Blue Hawaii with a bias set to 500), this to me sounded BY FAR the best. The was out of an almost fully maxed SDS-XLR rig.

I tried the same cables out of an HD600 and much of the magic was lost. But those balanced 650's! OMG! So my question is, what is a good, 'semi-affordable' balanced amp that will get me in the ballpark of the SDS?

edit: spelling errors

 

[Solude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilvg I tried the same cables out of an HD600 and much of the magic was lost.

Are you sure its the balanced sound you liked and not the 650? Seems to me if the SDS+600 was just ok, that its more the 650 than the SDS making the magic.

That said I think an SFT Balanced Dynahi is the lowest priced balanced amp currently offered. In the funky category, the Benchmark DAC1 can drive the 650 out of its balanced outputs.

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solude In the funky category, the Benchmark DAC1 can drive the 650 out of its balanced outputs.

And on that note, I have to apologize Solude. I have to pick up the female to female XLR's for the test I was going to do for you. Weeks are very busy for me and I'm traveling this weekend so I'm not sure when I will be back to you. My apologies!

 

[tkam]

SFT has a balanced M3 in the $800-$900 dollar range I think that will be the most affordable balanced amp you'll find.

 

[EdipisReks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solude Are you sure its the balanced sound you liked and not the 650? Seems to me if the SDS+600 was just ok, that its more the 650 than the SDS making the magic.

i agree, sounds like it's more of a 650 thang than a balanced thang.

 

[mattigol]

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilvg So I heard the balanced HD650 at the SF mini meet this saturday and my mind was blown. Seriously, out of all the gear there, including an Orpheus (albeit out of a Blue Hawaii with a bias set to 500), this to me sounded BY FAR the best. The was out of an almost fully maxed SDS-XLR rig. I tried the same cables out of an HD600 and much of the magic was lost. But those balanced 650's! OMG! So my question is, what is a good, 'semi-affordable' balanced amp that will get me in the ballpark of the SDS? edit: spelling errors

Looking at the gear you compared them with, and your very respectable own stash, this is saying A LOT!

M.

 

[PATB]

An SFT balanced M3 sounds tempting because of the price. However, is there any truth to the rumor that the some builders don't think it is a good idea to balance the M3 because it uses separate L, R, and G channels?

 

[neilvg]

You guys may be right about the 650 v.s. the 600. Honestly, I've only heard the 650's for very limited amounts of time as compared to my 600's. However, I've never been as struck as I was at the meet. I'd like to hear them single ended out of an amp in the same class to see if it really is the balanced or the phones, but it was my impression that 650's in general have more potential than 600's. I love my 600/cardas combo, but again I'll say that the balanced 650 was just in another league:

warm but with a great sense of immediacy and attack. Massive soundstage but great presence. Instruments sounded larger than life (which I like as a hallmark of the wide open senn sound), but this effect was even and not only to certain instruments or frequencies. I guess the best description would be to say that for the first time, I felt like these phones (both the 600/650) sounded like they were getting enough power and in all the right places.

Oh, and this actually might clear it up a little; AYT has a single ended to balanced cable converter so we could use the SDS-XLR balanced plugs and much of the magic was lost (with the non bal senn's), but it still sounded amazing. Unfortunately I tried this combo first and way earlier, and the truly balanced much later (so much gear by the time we 'remembered' about this it was too late to do any real side by side comparisons)

thanks for your responses!
Neil

 

[Teerawit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATB An SFT balanced M3 sounds tempting because of the price. However, is there any truth to the rumor that the some builders don't think it is a good idea to balance the M3 because it uses separate L, R, and G channels?

It is true. The M^3 was designed for single-ended and not balanced use --hence the design incorporates an active ground channel that would be lost in the balanced configuration.

 

[PATB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit It is true. The M^3 was designed for single-ended and not balanced use --hence the design incorporates an active ground channel that would be lost in the balanced configuration.

There goes my plan for a balanced amp on the cheap

 

[TheSloth]

That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with balancing an M3. It just means that the active ground feature for exach channel will no longer be used - only 4 out of the 6 channels total are necessary.

It will still sound better balanced than not, assuming the rest of the chain is properly implemented with dual power supplies, etc.

Though, from what I understand, if you are prepared to recable your headphones with dual 3 conductor jacks, and a custom XLR -> 1/4 or 1/8in or RCA cable from a balanced source, any 2 identical single ended amps can be put together to make a simple balanced amp by feeding L +/-/grnd to one amp and the R +/-/grnd to the other. As long as the input and output wiring matches up with respect to which is tip and which is centre, etc. it should work fine. I'm almost tempted to get another Headroom Micro Amp...

 

[sft]

From tech. view:

M3: one active ground channel for left and right channel. (to stablize "ground signal")

Bal. M3(precisely speaking, bal. M2): two active inverter(amplify) channels for left and right channels(to pull diaphragm...)
Does it sounds better? who knows.....it's a subjective judgement by yourself.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

You could also use the ground channel as a nice low impedance drain for the shield of each headphone cable. It might serve to isolate the internal ground from EMI draining from the shield. Hmmmm...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSloth I'm almost tempted to get another Headroom Micro Amp...

The more I've read these balanced threads lately, the more I think it's a killer idea to rig up two sweet little portable amps as a balanced headamp.

Maybe we can get that idiot who runs HeadRoom to put an inverting switch on the MicroDAC that flips it around to an inverting DAC. It would have to be a three way switch: normal/left/right so you could set which channel it was a balanced DAC for

(Oh, crap no! Tell that headphone geek that runs HeadRoom to friggen shut up! We've got enough things on our plate.)

Sorry, guys. But you get the idea. Buy a good soundcard with REAL balanced outs (that means that they have to have FOUR digital to analog converters! plus and minus left and plus and minus right channel DACs) DIY an XLR to miniplug cable. DIY recables for your cans (be caaaaaarfuuuuul!). Plug into two small portable amps; and GO AFTER IT! Balanced sound on a shoe string!

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilvg So I heard the balanced HD650 at the SF mini meet this saturday and my mind was blown. Seriously, out of all the gear there, including an Orpheus (albeit out of a Blue Hawaii with a bias set to 500), this to me sounded BY FAR the best. The was out of an almost fully maxed SDS-XLR rig. I tried the same cables out of an HD600 and much of the magic was lost. But those balanced 650's! OMG! So my question is, what is a good, 'semi-affordable' balanced amp that will get me in the ballpark of the SDS? edit: spelling errors

There is rumor of a balanced SLAM ppx3.

If the amp is any improvement at all over the standard SLAM that amp should be awesome.

I have no idea what the price will be though.

 

[mattigol]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover There is rumor of a balanced SLAM ppx3. If the amp is any improvement at all over the standard SLAM that amp should be awesome. I have no idea what the price will be though.

Oh no - not another option to ponder!!!

Then again, how is this going to work knowing the innards of PPX3s?! I don't believe this is going to be an option below 400 US$, possibly much more.

As Tyll pointed out, a balanced source (i.e. that 150 US$ Zhaolu DAC D1.3) plus two mono amps plus rewired HD650 might be the best way to pull off a balanced rig at a low price with uncompromising sound.