[mmortal03]

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Originally posted by gloco Here we go one more time: 1. Try finding a modern Sony pcdp with a line out....that sounds good! 2. Atrac can easily compare to any high quality mp3. Time to convert CD to MD? Takes me far shorter than using a program like EAC to extract wav's then convert to mp3. I own a CD/MD combo deck...4x speed dubbing=20 minutes for a 80 minute album, beats out mp3 IMHO...and i didn't have to break the bank: Sony CD/MD deck=$200 MD player= $99 Enjoying music in 20 minutes=Bliss. MP3: Good quality mp3 player=few hundred bucks Time wasted converting albums to mp3's=you'll be long dead before you're done. Who wants to lug around a pcdp, amp and headphones?

You are forgetting media costs, cds cost a whole lot less than mds. Also, converting a cd to md each time you want to change your songs on md is ridiculous, when you can store your mp3s on your computer and send them to a flash player much faster the second and third time around. As for cd/mp3 players, who cares about burning time, the convience of having 9-10 albums encoded at --alt-preset standard on ONE CD beats anything MD can do, and there is less chance of needing to reorganize your tracks. It seems that MD lovers always seem to rant about how difficult and how time consuming it is to rip cds and encode into mp3. MD must be for those who are computer illiterate or something, because the great range of configurability that mp3 encoding and other lossy formats give you FAR exceeds that of ATRAC and MD. And, you can access your collection on your computer, and possibly over a network with mp3 encodes. BTW, who wants to lug around a MD player, amp, and headphones? From what I read, quite a lot of people, so don't try to make something sound like a hassle for one side of an arguement and not the other.
It seems to me that MiniDisc is a technology in the same market niche as stand alone cd recorders. For those people who do not have the skills or care to use their computer to take advantage of advanced settings and higher quality technologies, it is an alternative. While computer IDE CD-Writers are much more robust and configurable, people buy standalone cd recorders because they do the basics they need, sacrificing the extra features and configurability, and ulitmately an end product that is higher quality. MiniDisc is the Mac part in the age old Mac vs. PC user comparison. (would be the perfect analogy if it wasn't for the iPod, the only exception here, I'm looking at the computer comparison of course, I can't wait for the unintelligent flame from someone who lacks the understanding of analogies). The Mac user likes ease of use and pretty looking gadgets.
I think I'll spend my money on CD and harddrive mp3 players, and probably even a flash mp3 player in the future, once companies start supporting some other lossy formats. So what if I have to be a little more intelligent and spend a little more time to get exactly what I want...I only have to do it once, and I get higher quality sound, more compatible, a more portable collection, and I'll be listening to 10 albums without changing disc, while the MD user is reconverting his songs to ATRAC and changing his media to get that next album. And wait, I'll be able to go buy an extra album per mp3-cd for all that money saved on MD media that I didn't have to buy.

 

[myself, aka me]

Quote:

Originally posted by mmortal03 You are forgetting media costs, cds cost a whole lot less than mds. Also, converting a cd to md each time you want to change your songs on md is ridiculous, when you can store your mp3s on your computer and send them to a flash player much faster the second and third time around.

And you think we just erase blank disc after blank disc? Hehe.
/looks at pile of MDs in the corner


Quote:

As for cd/mp3 players, who cares about burning time, the convience of having 9-10 albums encoded at --alt-preset standard on ONE CD beats anything MD can do, and there is less chance of needing to reorganize your tracks. It seems that MD lovers always seem to rant about how difficult and how time consuming it is to rip cds and encode into mp3. MD must be for those who are computer illiterate or something, because the great range of configurability that mp3 encoding and other lossy formats give you FAR exceeds that of ATRAC and MD.

What's wrong with being computer illiterate when your primary interest is music reproduction? The convenience of 9-10 albums? Heh. 80 minutes is more than enough if you know how to make good mixes. MP3 is for mix-illiterate people

. It far exceeds it? How? Naming a track.. splitting a track... combining a track... deleting all or part of a track... All can be done wherever you want with MD. I say they're equal. Who needs to muck around making an MP3 sound good? Plug in a cable, press record...


Quote:

And, you can access your collection on your computer, and possibly over a network with mp3 encodes. BTW, who wants to lug around a MD player, amp, and headphones? From what I read, quite a lot of people, so don't try to make something sound like a hassle for one side of an arguement and not the other.

The MD sounds good without an amp. A modern CD, no. Therefore, amp.

Quote:

It seems to me that MiniDisc is a technology in the same market niche as stand alone cd recorders. For those people who do not have the skills or care to use their computer to take advantage of advanced settings and higher quality technologies, it is an alternative. While computer IDE CD-Writers are much more robust and configurable, people buy standalone cd recorders because they do the basics they need, sacrificing the extra features and configurability, and ulitmately an end product that is higher quality. MiniDisc is the Mac part in the age old Mac vs. PC user comparison. (would be the perfect analogy if it wasn't for the iPod, the only exception here, I'm looking at the computer comparison of course, I can't wait for the unintelligent flame from someone who lacks the understanding of analogies). The Mac user likes ease of use and pretty looking gadgets.

So you're implying the "PC" is more useful? How? The only thing an MD can't do is connect to a computer decently. And in the scheme of things that's really not so important. [unless your primary source of music is d/loading it..

. You're arguing a point that doesn't need it. You also forgot live recording, hehe]

Quote:

I think I'll spend my money on CD and harddrive mp3 players, and probably even a flash mp3 player in the future, once companies start supporting some other lossy formats. So what if I have to be a little more intelligent and spend a little more time to get exactly what I want...I only have to do it once, and I get higher quality sound, more compatible, a more portable collection, and I'll be listening to 10 albums without changing disc, while the MD user is reconverting his songs to ATRAC and changing his media to get that next album. And wait, I'll be able to go buy an extra album per mp3-cd for all that money saved on MD media that I didn't have to buy.

I don't even have to plug a cable in anymore, with me MD deck. All I do is this: Insert blank MD, insert CD. Press record on MD, press play on CD. Sit down and listen to the tunes, then when it's done.. well.. eject the MD. You'll be pessed off that your 9-10 albums suck because you can't make a mix, while the MD user is sitting there enjoying his tunes. Where the hell did you get the idea that MD was semi-permanent? You'll find everyone but a couple of NetMD users have more than one disc. Hehe.

 

[mmortal03]

NetMD is a great feature that cd/mp3 players and the like don't have. You see, the difference here is that with the cd/mp3 players, you organize the music in directories exactly the way you want it before you burn. That is where the cd with its gui becomes of great use. I don't see myself reorganizing on the road. I have a naming methodology that I use in my directory structures, and I know where to find my stuff in no time. And, if I want to get more custom, there is actually a way for me to do custom mixes. I can do this by creating playlists. I can do this on my computer when I burn, or I can create them on the fly on my cd/mp3 player. No, they aren't permanent (burned on the cd), but they provide the same functionality. And, with harddrive mp3 players, not necessary to the arguement, but I will note this anyway, you CAN delete and in some models move around your music if you feel the need. I feel that renaming, combining, splitting, and deleting a track in one shape or another are all gimicks, something that should be done with more precision on a PC. I don't see any type of situation where this would be a do-or-die feature, and I think this is more of a feature set inherent to a media format limited in size per disc.
The recording feature DOES kick butt on MD, but I would rather record to lossless WAV on an unrestricted harddrive player (or even flash player/removeable media player) than copy to the ATRAC format. In terms of sheer in your face down and dirty immediate playback, the MD has it, but why not just listen to the cd right there then? And if you say its because you are copying off of a friend, wait, weren't we just talking copyright infringement through downloading earlier.

With current lossy formats, for instance mp3, there are a thing called presets, in this case alt-presets, that give you the best quality for the bit rate. For close to 98 percent of music out there (the extra percent off is for problem samples inherent to all lossy formats) with mp3, you can get impercieveable ABX'd to the original mp3s by simply using the highly tested commandline string --alt-preset standard. For the lay person, there is no fiddling with obscure settings. All you do is encode with that string with LAME v 3.90.2, and you get the best quality mp3 at around 192kbps on average, and they are VBR (Variable Bit Rate, which means the encoding process uses more bits where the music is more complex, and less bits where they are not required. This is how I fit my average 9 to 10 albums to a cd. I listen to music by the album, maybe this is not your forte. The online community DOES have great legal live free music sharing btw.
Another great advantage to mp3 is lossless Gain Attenuation through the use of the Mp3 Gain utility. This makes all your tracks (or albums) volume close to the same, kind of like how radio broadcasts, so the listening experience is more fluid and more natural.

"And you think we just erase blank disc after blank disc? Hehe.
/looks at pile of MDs in the corner"

lol, In pure good humor I thought this was funny man, and you sort of caught me here, for lack of me typing it, but I HAD thought of this. We COULD get into a good discussion of whose is bigger (in this case whose empty media stash is bigger, lol) but in all honestly, I can't find anything that quite beats how cheap cdr spindles are these days in a price/capacity ratio. I don't think this is a good arguing point FOR MiniDisc, though I will say MD can get around fine, depending on how much music you justify carrying around with you. Remember, media capacity is something geeks like to better each other with, and frankly, I see any removeable media as viable, but haven't you eyed that new Blu-Ray DVD disc capacity just as much as the next guy? Right now, like I said, nothing beats CD-R in terms of cheap storage, and you can find good Taiyo Yuden or Mitsui media for cheap these days.

"What's wrong with being computer illiterate when your primary interest is music reproduction?"

Computers are where it is today in audio and music. The real hardcore stuff is right here. To get the best performance out of those musical bits, (quality per size) you have to stay with whats current. With new MPEG-4 AAC audio with SBR (or AAC+) jsut around the corner which is expected to blow away the sound quality of portable to even high end compressed audio, and new Ogg Vorbis breakthroughs and hardware players soon to be released, you have to keep up with the scene to get the most of everything. There is even some life left to be tweaked out of mp3, and it is used by many audio enthusiasts who then sit and bash it as flawed. You see, THAT is what the feeling is in the audio community, to strive to make better the technologies that we already depend on daily.

I guess you just don't feel the need for anything more, and thats fine. Many people don't like to change when they are set in their ways. I try to keep an open mind and will always jump for newer and better, especially if they build upon the knowledge tried and true, and mp3 has been THAT tested. Heck, especially if it is free and widely availiable. I see no need to use something so closed source and kept secret when there are better formats out there. I'd rather use one format for my hard drive mp3, cd/mp3, and flash players, all which have their own uses. Many flash players also use removeable media that has only continued to drop in price and has capacities in the works exceeding the current 1GB top of the line cards.
MD players can be improved by an amp, why do you say that they have no need? This should be more of an issue of headphone driving than anything else. Just because current mp3 players have had some sort of a bad rap as far as lineout quality means nothing. This in not an mp3 problem, but simply lies in the audio hardware itself. It is just a matter of what companies have been willing to release what in hardware form. BTW, I'd really like to see some in depth D/A conversion tests comparing top of the line MiniDisc and PCDP hardware and really see what this unbelieveable difference there is. Mp3 players can use the same hardware as MiniDisc, and I am in firm believe that this is a such a moot point. I have seen outstanding reviews for mp3 player output, as well as horrible ones for others. I think this is either a fluke or a myth, nothing more.

The "PC" in the analogy is NOT more useful. However the PC IS more useful because it is a general purpose tool for audio software. You can mix and edit audio beyond belief on a PC with tools like CoolEdit Pro all the way down to freeware music splicers, samplers, repairers, and equalizers. To limit the broad spectrum of PC usage to music downloading is a closed perspective. For one thing, the wide assortment of freely availiable music, both legal and not, is a resource one should not be avoiding. There are so many artists out there under the mainstream radar that are amazing that I feel everyone can benefit from. Please do not limit yourself to a specific format simply to be stubborn, which I am not going to be the one to judge whether "myself, aka me" is or not. BTW, the mass of music I listen to I rip from my original albums. over 7 gigs worth. And I have even started ripping to lossless because I have such a large hard drive, just for future backup and also transportability into future more powerful formats.

Quote:

I don't even have to plug a cable in anymore, with me MD deck. All I do is this: Insert blank MD, insert CD. Press record on MD, press play on CD. Sit down and listen to the tunes, then when it's done.. well.. eject the MD. You'll be pessed off that your 9-10 albums suck because you can't make a mix, while the MD user is sitting there enjoying his tunes. Where the hell did you get the idea that MD was semi-permanent? You'll find everyone but a couple of NetMD users have more than one disc. Hehe.

That is really neat stuff that I already knew about. I like those features a lot, but just those features are not the selling points for me. I think we may just see these types of features in other removeable media players soon. Some removeable media even contains its own write functions built in, so there you go. It won't be long before you can do this on other formats besides MD, and not to disrepect the purposes you use it for, I myself, ever loving of added features, have not a need for it.

 

[xlifez]

wait a month or 2 till new products come out such as the products from Iriver and Sam sung... (I'm waiting..)

 

[dunelly]

so should I just get an ipod or what?

sounds like MD players doesn't have the convenience of getting my Mp3s off my computer :[.

massives posts that =

 

[archosman]

Why don't you go the cheaper route for now & go with the minidisc. If you're going to listen to compressed music then you might as well listen to it on ATRAC3 than an mp3. If you find it's not for you then put the stuff up for sale. I've just recently gone back to my minidisc after 2 years of portable mp3s at 256kbps. If sound quality is not an issue then I'll take my Nomad or Archos. IF I want good music it's the minidisc!

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Originally posted by dunelly so should I just get an ipod or what? sounds like MD players doesn't have the convenience of getting my Mp3s off my computer :[. massives posts that =

 

[PodMan]

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Originally posted by dunelly so should I just get an ipod or what? sounds like MD players doesn't have the convenience of getting my Mp3s off my computer :[. massives posts that =

well if you have tons of mp3s, an ipod will serve you well. I use to own the HD497 + 5gb ipod combo, it worked very well. as good as minidisc players are (especially regarding battery life and durability), nothing beats having thousands of songs accessible by a few scrolls and a few clicks. also converting mp3s to minidisc via the netmd software is a pain, and there will also be loss of quality as well due to conversion from one lossy format to another.

I traded in an ipod for a minidisc player because of battery life and weight. i record most of my music from cds so the quality loss is minimal.