[MisterUsername]

So i've been researching for a solid 4-5 hours now and im no closer to getting an answer than when i began. I'm at a complete loss and it seem the info about amps has gone completely over my head and some research i've done lists things i should know about amps, but upon going on the manufacturers website those specs dont seem to exist, almost as if the people suggesting i look up "Sensitivity"/ "Efficiency" or "Output Ohmage" have made those terms up.

Okay so basically, Its Black Friday/Cyber Monday weekend. I figured, okay its a good time to buy myself an upgrade for christmas, but i've gotten so lost in all the research it honestly boggles me how difficult it is to make a purchase decision for a pair of headphones, it feels way harder than even building a PC or installing stuff in to a car!

My Current headphones are a pair of Audio-Technica M50X's and i currently do not have an Amp. I was wondering if anyone on here has any reccomendations for something better (Budget is around £400) and if necessary, what amp i should buy for said recommendations? I'm thinking open backed headphones would be a good idea, as supposedly they're better than closed back like the M50X's, i plan on using them for gaming, listening to music at high quality and for voice calls and videos and such, Basically everything short of Audio editing and creation, almost.

My Initial research has lead me to a pair of Sennheiser HD 600's which according to the spec sheet are 300 Ohm headphones, so i went looking for reccomendations for Amps, ideally ones below or around £100. I found the Schiit Magni 3 to be highly recommended however not only can it not be shipped to the UK (Where i live) but from what research i've done it seems like it needs a DAC? I dont understand why, and i dont really WANT to buy a dac unless it's absolutely necessary as 99% of the time the headphones will be plugged in to my PC, which as far as im aware, the motherboard has a built in DAC just like every other motherboard that has been made within the past two decades. That took me 5 hours to try and research, a single pair of headphones that im not even sure if they're the right ones i'd want and a single amp. 5 Full hours and im no closer than when i began.

Its at this point i gave up, defeated, because no matter how hard i tried to understand everything...I just couldn't, so i figured i'd post on here and see if i can get everyones best recommendations for headphones and (if needed) an AMP around my budget that are better than my current ATM50X's (I haven't really had enough headphones to really know what im talking about when it comes to sound signature or soundstage, so i've just said "Better", apologies for the lack of specifics, but it really is too difficult to really quantify something i've never experienced or have little expertise in). Help?

 

[cycloverid]

The issue with most open back headphones is the lack of dynamics (bass punch and slam) compared to your m50x for example. If you've only used closed back headphones, the HD600 is going to be fairly bass anemic in comparison. It will have other good qualities, but I wouldn't expect to be blown away. The 'open' sound will have other benefits, sounding more natural because sound is able to freely escape those small earcups.

I've only owned closed backs for this reason, until recently. A large planar like the Hifiman Sundara has extremely good sub bass impact with EQ compared to something like the m50x (this will be a large subwoofer sound unlike anything you've heard on a headphone) - though in punchiness (high bass) it will be a step down as it is still an open back. It will also have much better soundstage and that 'open' sound I talked about earlier. I do think this is sort of the natural progression for someone who enjoys bass, but wants more soundstage and a more open sound. There are some caveats, like the large earcups that don't swivel and stiff cable you should replace. But do some research on it.

For amps, there are several in the $100 range that will work just fine for something like the Sundara or HD600: Schiit Mangi like you mentioned, JDS Atom or Liquid Spark just to name a few. Don't overthink it, these will work perfectly fine for these headphones. The HD600 and HD650/6XX are very scalable with better amps apparently, but don't concern yourself too much with this. You will get ample power with these.

As far as DACs, people tend to use AMP/DAC stacks here for best audio quality. I personally use a PCI-E soundcard for this purpose that I bought many years ago (HT Omega eClaro), which does a great job in my opinion. There are going to be a lot of opinions floating around here, but even onboard audio has gotten quite sufficient these days. As long as your motherboard isn't bottom of the barrel and relatively new, the quality of this will probably be like 95% as good as buying a separate DAC. There are some concerns with additional noise as it's inside your computer, but if you don't hear anything, what's the problem?

Good luck!

 

[MisterUsername]

The issue with most open back headphones is the lack of dynamics (bass punch and slam) compared to your m50x for example. If you've only used closed back headphones, the HD600 is going to be fairly bass anemic in comparison. It will have other good qualities, but I wouldn't expect to be blown away. The 'open' sound will have other benefits, sounding more natural because sound is able to freely escape those small earcups.

I've only owned closed backs for this reason, until recently. A large planar like the Hifiman Sundara has extremely good sub bass impact with EQ compared to something like the m50x (this will be a large subwoofer sound unlike anything you've heard on a headphone) - though in punchiness (high bass) it will be a step down as it is still an open back. It will also have much better soundstage and that 'open' sound I talked about earlier. I do think this is sort of the natural progression for someone who enjoys bass, but wants more soundstage and a more open sound. There are some caveats, like the large earcups that don't swivel and stiff cable you should replace. But do some research on it.

For amps, there are several in the $100 range that will work just fine for something like the Sundara or HD600: Schiit Mangi like you mentioned, JDS Atom or Liquid Spark just to name a few. Don't overthink it, these will work perfectly fine for these headphones. The HD600 and HD650/6XX are very scalable with better amps apparently, but don't concern yourself too much with this. You will get ample power with these.

As far as DACs, people tend to use AMP/DAC stacks here for best audio quality. I personally use a PCI-E soundcard for this purpose that I bought many years ago (HT Omega eClaro), which does a great job in my opinion. There are going to be a lot of opinions floating around here, but even onboard audio has gotten quite sufficient these days. As long as your motherboard isn't bottom of the barrel and relatively new, the quality of this will probably be like 95% as good as buying a separate DAC. There are some concerns with additional noise as it's inside your computer, but if you don't hear anything, what's the problem?

Good luck!

Thanks for the insight, I'll certainly look those up!

I had a look at the Hifiman Sundara but it seems to be similar ohmage to my M50X's i currently have. Would an amp even be required for that? From what research i have done, it seems fairly popular opinion that you only really "need" an amp if headphones are at 50 ohms or above, though i dont know how much truth there is to that having never used one myself. And due to its similar Ohmage, would it even be that much of a noticeable improvement?

Thanks for the suggestions on the Amps - It seems only one of them is even available to purchase anymore, the JDS Atom but it seems to drive up to 600 ohms...Or, atleast i think it does? I really wish it was easier to quantify without having to result to opening up a calculator...

And yea, my motherboard is pretty recent and i've never once had any problems with my computers on-board audio, so thats why i dont really see a reason to get a DAC.

 

[silent-circuit]

Planars are, as a rule, more power hungry than dynamic (traditional) headphones. I wouldn't recommend running Sundaras without an amp.

Higher ohms don't mean better sound, and lower ohms don't mean worse.

 

[cycloverid]

Thanks for the insight, I'll certainly look those up!

I had a look at the Hifiman Sundara but it seems to be similar ohmage to my M50X's i currently have. Would an amp even be required for that? From what research i have done, it seems fairly popular opinion that you only really "need" an amp if headphones are at 50 ohms or above, though i dont know how much truth there is to that having never used one myself. And due to its similar Ohmage, would it even be that much of a noticeable improvement?

Thanks for the suggestions on the Amps - It seems only one of them is even available to purchase anymore, the JDS Atom but it seems to drive up to 600 ohms...Or, atleast i think it does? I really wish it was easier to quantify without having to result to opening up a calculator...

And yea, my motherboard is pretty recent and i've never once had any problems with my computers on-board audio, so thats why i dont really see a reason to get a DAC.

Don't just look at the ohm number when evaluating the difficulty of driving a headphone. The ohm rating measures how easily current travels through the coil. With a higher ohm rating, the power you put in is less effectively gets to the driver (very roughly, some power gets thrown out). The other number to look at is the 'sensitivity', which is listed as 93dBSPL for the Sundara. This is how much power you need to get the driver to that sound level. A headphone with a lower number is harder to drive. So, the Sundara uses the power efficiently, but still needs a reasonable amount to get to the same sound level of, for example, the 99dBSPL of the m50x. This is my rough understanding of course, which should give you a good enough idea for these purposes.

There are all sorts of subjective opinions out there regarding this stuff (X sounds really good with Y), but if you understand this basic correlation with ohms and sensitivity, you will roughly know how much power a headphone needs. The way I do it isn't with using the formulas, but basically knowing what kind of ohm/dBSPL ratios need what kind of power. Ultimately though, the 3 amps I listed will drive the vast majority of the headphones out there sufficiently.

 

[MisterUsername]

So i've done some more research on those two headphones (The Sennheiser HD600's and the Hifiman Sundara) And i was struggling to decide between which of them seem the most appealing to me when i found out the weight of the two headphones. the HD600's are about 260 grams, so a little ligher than the M50X's i currently have but it seems that the Hifimans are a full kilogram! I've never worn something so heavy before, and the use case i'd use them for? Well, i'd be wearing them all day basically, as i use headphones as my main drivers for hearing audio from my PC. Will the weight be of much concern if i'm wearing them for 12+ hours a day or is one kilogram light enough that i'd be able to get away with that?

 

[cycloverid]

So i've done some more research on those two headphones (The Sennheiser HD600's and the Hifiman Sundara) And i was struggling to decide between which of them seem the most appealing to me when i found out the weight of the two headphones. the HD600's are about 260 grams, so a little ligher than the M50X's i currently have but it seems that the Hifimans are a full kilogram! I've never worn something so heavy before, and the use case i'd use them for? Well, i'd be wearing them all day basically, as i use headphones as my main drivers for hearing audio from my PC. Will the weight be of much concern if i'm wearing them for 12+ hours a day or is one kilogram light enough that i'd be able to get away with that?

The Sundara is heavier for sure than the HD600 at 372g - far less than a kilogram though. Not sure where you read that number. I wear these headphones for up to 8 hours a day and the only comfort complaint I had was the clamp force. After a few weeks, this is now getting very comfortable though. The one major advantage the HD600/650 have in comfort I'd say is the ear shape of the pads, accommodating more ear sizes.

If you use EQ, the Sundara has much better dynamics than the HD600, so this will be a huge bonus if you have a preference for it. Many people are left unsatisfied coming from closed back headphones to the HD600/650 because they like bass. But if you don't need much bass in your music, those headphones are pretty great.