best mp3 player ? (regarding SQ only)

[isamu]

I know this may be a silly question, but how would you guys compare the SQ from a DAP to a PC using WinAmp and a good DSP plugin such as DFX? I can't see WinAmp+DFX being topped by anything but I could be wrong

 

[tbritton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know this may be a silly question, but how would you guys compare the SQ from a DAP to a PC using WinAmp and a good DSP plugin such as DFX? I can't see WinAmp+DFX being topped by anything but I could be wrong

That is a silly question... sorry, my friend. Saying "a DAP" and "a PC" are just too totally vague as parameters to compare. Some particular model of DAP and a model of audio card in a PC may be things we can discuss here, but not generalities as broad as you suggest. And many people detest DFX with a total passion, and would only wish to compare raw DAPs with raw audio card performance.

Please do keep asking questions, though!

Glad you like listening to your system - that's what ultimately counts for your own enjoyment of your music.

So, what DAP? What PC audio card? With DFX or without? With some other plug-ins compared to DFX or compared to a raw output without plugins?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Terry

 

[Nandro]

I agree as far as DFX. Most audiophiles go to great lengths to remove anything that effects the music let alone a programe to manipulate it. If it makes the music sound better most would say your card was not good to begin with.

 

[isamu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbritton /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is a silly question... sorry, my friend. Saying "a DAP" and "a PC" are just too totally vague as parameters to compare. Some particular model of DAP and a model of audio card in a PC may be things we can discuss here, but not generalities as broad as you suggest. And many people detest DFX with a total passion, and would only wish to compare raw DAPs with raw audio card performance. Please do keep asking questions, though! Glad you like listening to your system - that's what ultimately counts for your own enjoyment of your music. So, what DAP? What PC audio card? With DFX or without? With some other plug-ins compared to DFX or compared to a raw output without plugins? Inquiring minds want to know! Terry

Heh heh, you're right Terry that was too much of a generalization

OK so let's compare say, an iMod to a Creative Audigy 2Z Soundcard without any DSP plug-ins....which one comes out on top?

Also you mention people detest DFX with a passion...why would this be? Isn't it supposed to be a considered a tool that enhances the music and gives it a much pleasurable sound quality?

 

[Nandro]

Its just that audiophiles dont like software to alter their music. It changes the true sound and how the artist intended it to sound. If a source is good the music should sound good without enhancement, but if that works for you it may save you a ton of money in the long run as that software or a decent EQ are much cheaper than good sources and amps.

 

[Sparky191]

I think DFX sounds fake. its sounds like an effect.

 

[Nandro]

It isn't fake, it does what its meant to which is synthisize the sound, but it is in no way able to make music sound more clear or realistic. Its hard really because as listeners we like somewhat different sounds like the warmth that tube amps can bring or the sound stage of different cans. Those are personal preference, but they still leave the general heart of the music pure. Many people like reference equiptment which should technically be as close to the original as possible. I think if someone likes DFX thats fine as it would be a great money saver. If DFX can make you happy there is no sense in having a super expensive system as your just going to change the sound you paid alot to get. Me, I like my UD-10 with my jolida tube amp best. It trumps the Corda Aria in my book but I am partial to the tube sound especially the tubes DrDarthWells hooked me up with. It almost sounds like vynil to me. I cant imagine EQ'ing it or using distortion programs and having it sound better. Same with my iPod which out of the HP jack needs some eq'ing as it sounds very thin compared to LO with a Bithead amp. I can see what you mean by fake though as the program really does make mince meat of the quality.

 

[tbritton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Heh heh, you're right Terry that was too much of a generalization OK so let's compare say, an iMod to a Creative Audigy 2Z Soundcard without any DSP plug-ins....which one comes out on top? Also you mention people detest DFX with a passion...why would this be? Isn't it supposed to be a considered a tool that enhances the music and gives it a much pleasurable sound quality?

I think Nandro explained it pretty well - but how you shape your sound to your liking is your own affair, and you have every right to go about it however it works well for you! If you are after "audiophile quality" that usually implies audio untouched by effects of any kind, but that does not really describe the reality of it - tubes add a quality, even different tubes; op-amps add a quality, even different op-amps. Amplifiers and preamplifiers are discussed for their "sound quality" quite a bit, and even though there is a tendency for a "one comes out on top" kind of battle of the devices to permeate the tone of the discussion, there really is no such thing as a "top" unit over another - it is all about the synergy between several devices and how they work together to provide the best sound to one individual's ears. These devices - amps and preamps - may not be considered to be effects devices, but they are adding their own affectation to the sound that makes it pleasing to different ears in different ways.

As to the Creative Audigy to an iMod, I don't own either, so I can't jump in there. Maybe somebody else, but a sound-card to DAP comparison/discussion probably belongs in a different thread that you could start. Just hit New Thread at the top or bottom of the threads list.

Terry

 

[music065]

I have a few friends who are classical musicians - in the local symphony. One of them says he used to be an "audiophile" purist and wanted his music untouched, etc.

He wanted to have it sound as if he was in a room with the musicians.

But then he said he realized that his $30k home stereo setup (which he had worked & saved for years to put together) - he said at some point he had a flash - that it would never sound like it did at a night at the symphony.

Now, he scoffs at "oh yeah, its got to be as the artist intended the music." He said that an illusion -- audiophiles are fooling themselves if they think they know what the artist intended, or is what is on the CD even what the artist intended? It gets existential.

Long story short -- he bought some Cowon products and goes nuts with the effects.

As a few people have posted here -- he's like: "If you like the sound, that's the unit and the special effects you need -- that is fine."

And its fine if you want direct output.

I agree. If people like the sound -- more power to them. I know some fairly smart people who seem very happy with any ipod or cheap knockoff and stock earbuds. They are smiling their arse off as they are listening to music. More power to them.

 

[tbritton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music065 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a few friends who are classical musicians - in the local symphony. One of them says he used to be an "audiophile" purist and wanted his music untouched, etc. He wanted to have it sound as if he was in a room with the musicians. But then he said he realized that his $30k home stereo setup (which he had worked & saved for years to put together) - he said at some point he had a flash - that it would never sound like it did at a night at the symphony. Now, he scoffs at "oh yeah, its got to be as the artist intended the music." He said that an illusion -- audiophiles are fooling themselves if they think they know what the artist intended, or is what is on the CD even what the artist intended? It gets existential. Long story short -- he bought some Cowon products and goes nuts with the effects. As a few people have posted here -- he's like: "If you like the sound, that's the unit and the special effects you need -- that is fine." And its fine if you want direct output. I agree. If people like the sound -- more power to them. I know some fairly smart people who seem very happy with any ipod or cheap knockoff and stock earbuds. They are smiling their arse off as they are listening to music. More power to them.

I like the "It gets existential" comment, as well as the rest! Excellent illustration of that point. And nice 2nd post! Welcome to Head-fi! Sorry about your wallet!

Terry

 

[cherepashka]

Damn.... DFX...

Thought it was Head-fi, not epinions.com..

 

[Sparky191]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nandro /img/forum/go_quote.gif It isn't fake, it does what its meant to which is synthisize the sound, but it is in no way able to make music sound more clear or realistic. ...

I didn't say it was fake. I said it sounds fake to me. Or put another way. I don't like the sound it makes.

 

[myc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J /img/forum/go_quote.gif can you compare it with other dap ?

cant compare to something right now, but the bass and treble can be boosted to my liking (turns every headphones i put into bass monsters including etys and much clearer sounding too)

 

[myc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTamas /img/forum/go_quote.gif Someone posted the RMAA results of the X51v on the Hydrogenaudio forums a while ago and it was pretty amazing from a PDA.

You mean this one ?

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...howtopic=35918

oh yeah, need to mention that the equalizer s/w is x50mix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nandro /img/forum/go_quote.gif How much music could it possibly hold though? I agree that some smaller players have great SQ, but if you can oly hold 20 songs at high bit rate or lossless then why not just use a decent portable cd?

you could use SD or another mem card supporting 2Gigs or even bigger

 

[Nandro]

but even 4G total is kind of small capacity wise isn't it? I guess i am more used to the 30-80G units and using lossless or higher bitrate music files. I guess i would have to try one and see if it actually was an inconvienience. If the SQ was superior it may make up for it.