[s0lar]

Quote:

 
Unless you have evidence that the vinyl is actually a different master than the CD (which is expensive for a label to do and actually quite rare for any album made in the last 20 years), then you are hearing the same master on a different format.  The differences you hear are either from the added distortion ("warmth") of vinyl, inadequacies in your CD playback system, or pure psychoacoustics.  Nothing wrong with liking vinyl, just know why you like it. 

The CDs have clipping, the vinyls do not. Same with the two most recent CDs of Beach House compared to the vinyls.

 

[afss07]

I'm no real expert, but by my ears The Sword's third album "Warp Riders" is pretty artfully mastered. Which is great, because their first two, while great albums, are very squished and muddy.

 

[mbayaq]

Quote:

The CDs have clipping, the vinyls do not. Same with the two most recent CDs of Beach House compared to the vinyls.

So you are implying that the vinyls do have a completely different master thus confirming my statement?  Good to know.  Enjoy!

 

[RushNerd]

Anything Steven Wilson touches. /thread

 

[Feedback]

Quote:

The CDs have clipping, the vinyls do not. Same with the two most recent CDs of Beach House compared to the vinyls.

 
The reason for this is because CD masters are too loud for vinyl. If they were pressed as is, the needle would jump right out of the groove. The quick way to get around this is to apply a limiter to the master. Hence no dynamic range improvements and no clipping.

 

[WhiteCrow]

Quote:

 
The reason for this is because CD masters are too loud for vinyl. If they were pressed as is, the needle would jump right out of the groove. The quick way to get around this is to apply a limiter to the master. Hence no dynamic range improvements and no clipping.

I'm not arguing I'm just clarifying. You are saying that it's not a re-master or a different master. It's just limited volume on the CD master?

 

[Feedback]

Quote:

I'm not arguing I'm just clarifying. You are saying that it's not a re-master or a different master. It's just limited volume on the CD master?

 
AFAIK, yes. It's the same master with a limiter applied to it in most cases.

 

[WhiteCrow]

Quote:

 
AFAIK, yes. It's the same master with a limiter applied to it in most cases.

now see, that's an argument I could believe. Saying that an entirely different master is applied is just a tad insane and would be very costly for the company.

 

[Feedback]

Quote:

now see, that's an argument I could believe. Saying that an entirely different master is applied is just a tad insane and would be very costly for the company.

 
Yep. There are cases where there was a different master, but they are rare.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

The CDs have clipping, the vinyls do not. Same with the two most recent CDs of Beach House compared to the vinyls.

It's extremely common for companies to use the CD master to do the Vinyl Record.
 
But what...what's this?! No clipping on the vinyl?!?! OMG.....it's got to be better!!!!

 
Well...that's because it's physically impossible to master a vinyl record that loud.  I would always get a chuckle when I would hear people on this forum or other audiophile forums proclaim the vinyl master of Californication as "better" or more "organic" or [insert audiophile description here/food description here]. They swore they was no clipping and indeed the wave forms showed this to be true. However, I know for a fact the vinyl record is nothing more than the CD master put onto vinyl.
 
Do your research before spending your hard earned dough on some craptastic mastering.

 

[WhiteCrow]

Quote:

It's extremely common for companies to use the CD master to do the Vinyl Record.
 
But what...what's this?! No clipping on the vinyl?!?! OMG.....it's got to be better!!!!

 
Well...that's because it's physically impossible to master a vinyl record that loud.  I would always get a chuckle when I would hear people on this forum or other audiophile forums proclaim the vinyl master of Californication as "better" or more "organic" or [insert audiophile description here/food description here]. They swore they was no clipping and indeed the wave forms showed this to be true. However, I know for a fact the vinyl record is nothing more than the CD master put onto vinyl.
 
Do your research before spending your hard earned dough on some craptastic mastering.

There we have it gent's. this argument has been laid to rest. For those of you who don't know LFF is a very trust worthy source.

 

[Sparky191]

Maybe I'm missing something but isn't a master thats clipped less better?

 

[WhiteCrow]

Quote:

Maybe I'm missing something but isn't a master that's clipped less better?

it is, but the claim was that it's a different master all together.

 

[kkl10]

I'm not the most qualified person to judge audio mastering work, but still, I would like to add one or two examples of orchestral works the ignorant in me admires from a technical point of view, and musical of course.
 
I happened to be looking for some well recorded and performed Beethoven music and this is what I got....
They're actually the same orchestral pieces but different interpretations:
 
Beethoven: The Symphonies; Osmo Vanska conducts Minnesota Orchestra through all Beethoven symphonies
 

 
Recording of these cycle started in 2004.
 
and
 
Beethoven: Symphonies / Overtures; Jos Van Immerseel conducts his (period instrument!) Anima Eterna Ensemble through all Beethoven symphonies and some Overtures
 

 
Not sure of the recording start date, but this box set was released in 2008, so pretty sure still in the 2000s... or at least not before 1999... could this still count?
 
Would like to hear a word from someone who owns or is willing to hear these recordings (LFF?).
It's funny how period instruments timbre differ from contemporary and the way these two cycles sound seem to emphasize the differences...
Vanska cycle has a much warmer sound than Immerseel's.
 
EDIT: It's possible to get a single CD containing one or two symphonies for a cheaper price instead of the whole box sets in these two cases...

 

[LFF]

I haven't heard the first set but I did remaster the Immerseel set for someone last year.
 
In terms of dynamics, it's great. Very large dynamic range. In terms of actual mastering...it's meh.

 
Why? It's a typical classical mastering in the sense that the mid-range is overly emphasized and the treble has been reduced by at least 10db. It sounds like it was recorded in a stuffy, blanket packed room...not a concert hall..as there is absolutely no air surrounding the instruments. Some mastering engineers, particularly those who do classical, love reducing the treble as it eliminates hiss/noise and gives the instrumentation a warmer sound which audiophiles love. However, I feel it robs the performance of life and naturalness.
 
Compare the sound. First is stock retail...second is how I feel it should sound like (volume matched for fair comparison):
 
http://www.sendspace.com/file/mz1t4a
 
The difference in the horns and strings is not subtle (at least to me) and they sound much more lifelike with the restored treble.
 
That said, I did enjoy the performance of the Immerseel set, enough that I got it for myself.