[shrimants]

I want to eventually be running arch linux on my laptops, and also on my future computer build. I want a digital audio converter to get an untouched bitwise perfect LPCM stream out of the computer and into my output of choice. Currently my outputs are a set of Audioengine A5's and also Monster Turbine's. I use bose on-ears only when my ears hurt from prolonged skullf***ing from the turbines, and I use the speakers at all times before 10PM.
 
My biggest problem has been finding some good way to have a linux compatible sound card. Idealy, I would love to just build a DAC myself. I know the PCM2707 chip can do this for me but I dont know enough about electronics to do such a thing... I plan on needing RCA and 3.5mm outputs.
 
Note to mods: please move to DIY section if this is more suitable there, as I would rather build it myself than go out and buy something. Linux compatibility is the biggest issue, though.

 

[MrSlim]

How much do you want to spend?  The Gamma2 uses the PCM2707 as a USB receiver, so it just works in Linux.   Ditto for the Gamma1 (granted, the Gamma1 is part of a Gamma 2)..  The Current USB receiver from Twisted Pear is also 270X based, so you could go for a Buffalo II as well.   A Gamma 2 could probably be built for around $300, while a Buffalo II will be closer to $1K.. depending on casing..  Russ at Twisted Pear is developing a new USB receiver that will do up to 32/384K or something like that, using the USB2.0 Audio Spec.   I know it's not DIY, but I just bought a EMU 0204 for some ADC duties,and with the new Linux Kernel, it should do 24/196 out via USB as well..(at least it works for the 0404).. and I only paid about $115 for it on their recent promo..IF you want to go the S/PDIF output route, you shouldn't have any issues at all, using any DAC.
 
 
 

 

[shrimants]

thanks, i'll keep those in mind. I was looking over the gamma 1 and gamma 2 models actually and those seemed rather nice. I have a friend who  has access to a  CNC mill, so I dont really need to worry about the casing and whatnot. I was just having a bit of trouble locating the parts list or some easy way to order all the parts and see how much I gotta save up before even thinking about ordering and building. I was hoping they would have the order form or a full kit on their site but I didnt want to sit there picking through different electronics websites because I just dont have the time or knowledge right now.
The twisted pear stuff seems to all be completely sold out, and I was actually favoring the gamma 1 and 2 way more.

 

[FrankWong]

What about all the external USB DAC options?

 

[shrimants]

yeah thats exactly what i was talking about. External USB Dac thats linux compatible. I'm still working on figuring out about how much it would cost in just parts for the gamma1 and gamma2 not including the chassis/face plates. Since i'm on a laptop, usb is probably the best way to go right now anyways, and it will end up saving me a bunch of money later on when I build my powerhouse (in planning/funding phase) if I just use onboard motherboard audio to do a direct pass through of sound to the DAC. I already decided I dont need some fancy hifi 7.1 speaker system as a proper set of 2.0 or 2.1 speakers or a proper set of cans (im looking at you, HD800's!) or even proper IEM's (1964 ears, ultimate ears reference series, earsonic sm3) will get the job done. For now I'm just trying to eliminate the dual bottleneck of my laptop's onboard sound via headphone jack passed through to my speakers/headphones. the card cant even produce sound below 30hz, it just makes a wooshy weeooeeooeeoo sound. I got a set of monster turbines to get me through until the time when I can afford an "actual" set of IEM's that are high end enough that i can call them audiophile grade and awlk around with them in a bullet proof case and positively cream myself with every note. Until then, I need to work on the other bottlenecks I have identified.

So anyways, anyone know the approximate price to buy all the Gamma 1 and Gamma 2 components? priced independantly, please, though gamma1+2 price lump sum would work too. Dont need shipping price factored in.

 

[BlackbeardBen]

If you decide not to go with DIY, the original uDAC (but from what I hear, not the uDAC 2) is plug-and-play with Linux.  It's a good entry level option, and used here it might actually cost less than anything DIY.

 

[shrimants]

I was kind of trying to shy away from "entry level" as that is the mistake i've made with things for years. Example: I used to buy the 10 dollar sony sport clips thinking they sounded crazy amazing. After that, I tried listening to a set of Koss RS-40's. They were my dads from back in the day when they were rather expensive (considering he bought them in india). My mind was blown. After those finally died on me (faulty cabling, too young and stupid to fix) I tried koss plugs as the sound isolation is what I was after. I'd only listen to metal and some rap and was more concerned with expanding my collection of music than actually listening to it. I switched from those to Creative EP-630's and once again my mind was blown as they were the closest to the RS-40's I had listened to. then I stuck with those for quite a few years, and switched to Bose On ears. The difference in clarity was noticeable but the difference in sound quality was not. Still, those served me well until I lost my creatives and needed a set of IEM's to replace them. I figured i'd take the plunge and get the best of both worlds: expensive headphones that have been used/refurbished so they wont cost me half a year's allowance. I got monster turbines and my mind was blown. Literally, I flinched the first few times I listened to music. I ahhhhh /reacquired/ most of my music in FLAC and am in the process of listening to it again.

tl;dr
Dont wanna go entry level. Go big or go small+regret it later+spend money in the end going big anyways.

Right now, i'm recovering from my "ignorance is bliss' phase of music listening. I have had a taste of the other side and now i NEED high quality stuff.

Thanks for your help. Still looking for pricing on the gamma1+2. My dad said that since its a constructive project, if I keep my grades/studies up he might just fund the entire thing, and hes got a friend at work that knows how to use a CNC mill like its nobody's business! Much better idea to build a DAC and then (later) a headphone tube amp than it is to build a model gundam and just look at it, eh?

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Quote:

I was kind of trying to shy away from "entry level" as that is the mistake i've made with things for years. Example: I used to buy the 10 dollar sony sport clips thinking they sounded crazy amazing. After that, I tried listening to a set of Koss RS-40's. They were my dads from back in the day when they were rather expensive (considering he bought them in india). My mind was blown. After those finally died on me (faulty cabling, too young and stupid to fix) I tried koss plugs as the sound isolation is what I was after. I'd only listen to metal and some rap and was more concerned with expanding my collection of music than actually listening to it. I switched from those to Creative EP-630's and once again my mind was blown as they were the closest to the RS-40's I had listened to. then I stuck with those for quite a few years, and switched to Bose On ears. The difference in clarity was noticeable but the difference in sound quality was not. Still, those served me well until I lost my creatives and needed a set of IEM's to replace them. I figured i'd take the plunge and get the best of both worlds: expensive headphones that have been used/refurbished so they wont cost me half a year's allowance. I got monster turbines and my mind was blown. Literally, I flinched the first few times I listened to music. I ahhhhh /reacquired/ most of my music in FLAC and am in the process of listening to it again.

tl;dr
Dont wanna go entry level. Go big or go small+regret it later+spend money in the end going big anyways.

Right now, i'm recovering from my "ignorance is bliss' phase of music listening. I have had a taste of the other side and now i NEED high quality stuff.

Thanks for your help. Still looking for pricing on the gamma1+2. My dad said that since its a constructive project, if I keep my grades/studies up he might just fund the entire thing, and hes got a friend at work that knows how to use a CNC mill like its nobody's business! Much better idea to build a DAC and then (later) a headphone tube amp than it is to build a model gundam and just look at it, eh?

I don't think you really understand.  "Entry level" in a DAC brings you 99.9% of the performance of $1000 DACs.  We're talking "entry level" in price, not in performance.  And "entry level" is a misnomer anyway, if you're comparing to $10 headphones.  The proper "entry level" analogue is the 25 cent DAC in your computer.  After you upgrade from that, the audible differences between DACs are minor - measurable but more often than not inaudible as the differences are tiny, and even then what sounds "better" is a problem.
 
Check out this listening test, for example:
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/542968/nuforce-udac-2-listening-challenge
 
My point is that while the differences between headphones are huge, and the differences between an inadequately powerful (or too-high impedance) amplifier and one that is powerful enough are apparent (audible clipping, etc.), the differences between DACs are nearly inconsequential unless there is a conscious effort on the part of the designer to color the DAC in some way.  The same goes for amplifiers that meet the minimum power/impedance requirements for a particular transducer.
 
My point is that as far as I am concerned, money spent on expensive DACs - having heard them myself - is money wasted that could be spent towards better transducers, an adequate amp, or more music - the things that really matter.
 

 

[shrimants]

I see. I'll definately take that into consideration. I just didnt want to be dropping 100 bucks or so on some dac/amp and then finding out all its inadequecies and problems.

For example, my first foray into this field was buying Creative's X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook. My hope was to get superior sound quality through it and to take some of that sound processing off of my computer. Well as it turns out, the entire thing needed some random complex driver to work and the driver creative provided didnt do ANYTHING compared to my friend's x-fi card. even turning the EQ on to flat caused such a massive reduction in sound quality that I left it on LPCM direct digital passthrough all the time. Furthermore, it didnt work on linux. They offered a 6 channel cable for it but I had already dropped 80 bucks on it and they expected another 35 for the cable and unlocking the actual potential of the driver itself. Furthermore it didnt even use the X-fi chip, it was just an emulated x-fi algorithm within the software. All in all, that was 80 bucks I completely wasted.

I want something that will actually match up this time around. I plan on using either USB, optical, or coax output from some computer source (source may change over the years, ie if I build my behemoth) going to the DAC. I want the DAC to be able to either pass that signal on in digital or at the very least be able to output it in high fidelity in stereo via RCA. I am still tryign to decide whether I want to go the custom IEM route or the full size headphone +amp route, but if I go that route, i'll want to build my own tube amp too.

The digital passthrough thing isnt AS important, its just so I can, for example, get some external reciever hooked up to a 5.1 or 7.1 system to process it if I get the urge to buy and watch blu-rays or some such thing. But like I said, I'm mostly interested in the stereo aspect of it because if you get a good enough 2.0 unit it can sound just as good if not better than a 5.1 unit.

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Well, the uDAC certainly has pretty much everything you want except digital pass-through of multichannel audio.  USB input, analog RCA and coaxial S/PDIF stereo output, and a decent headphone amp as well.
 
Some complain of channel imbalance at low levels with IEMs, but I find my only IEMs (Shure E2C) to be uncomfortable and haven't used them enough with the uDAC to say if it was a problem for me.  Power-wise the uDAC is limited in voltage swing and current supply as it is USB-powered, but it does an admirable job running the high impedance HD 600.  Dedicated amps certainly do a better job with high impedance or insensitive, high-current demanding headphones - of course it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to be running such power-hungry headphones off of the uDAC.
 
But as a DAC, well, it does a great job and is more than capable of feeding better amps and headphones.  Like I said before, competent DACs make little to no audible difference unless they're purposefully colored (to a large degree) in some way.

 

[shrimants]

If my dad tells me to buy my own junk and the gamma1/2 ends up costing my left nut, I'll probably just go with the udac after doing a bit more research into its linux capabilities. I'd much prefer to have a DIY solution instead though, at least for the time being. Especially because I might even be able to pass it off as a senior project, me being a computer engineering major and whatnot.

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Quote:

If my dad tells me to buy my own junk and the gamma1/2 ends up costing my left nut, I'll probably just go with the udac after doing a bit more research into its linux capabilities. I'd much prefer to have a DIY solution instead though, at least for the time being. Especially because I might even be able to pass it off as a senior project, me being a computer engineering major and whatnot.

There's not much to it, really.  Plug and play with bit-perfect streaming support.  I haven't tried any bit-perfect methods with Linux however - I presume it's just software dependent.

 

[francisdemarte]

I have both the Gamma2 and the Twisted Pear USB connected to dual mono Opus set up.

The Gamma2 is much more compact and runs off of USB power. I built it as a Full++ configuration and it cost a little over $300, a USB only build without the case and AMB faceplates will probably be closer to $200.

I'm currently using it with a Dockstar with stripped down version of Debian Linux installed and it works great.

 

[shrimants]

 I have both the Gamma2 and the Twisted Pear USB connected to dual mono Opus set up.

The Gamma2 is much more compact and runs off of USB power. I built it as a Full++ configuration and it cost a little over $300, a USB only build without the case and AMB faceplates will probably be closer to $200.

I'm currently using it with a Dockstar with stripped down version of Debian Linux installed and it works great.

That sounds so fap-worthy....would you mind posting a pic?

When you say 200, do you mean for the Gamma1 full++ config AND the gamma2?

Could you also explain that opus setup part? I was looking through their site and i liked what I saw but I didnt understand a word of it lol...Maybe just explain what the advantage to such a setup is and what it does

 

[biocrud]

How familiar are you with linux? On more configurable distros like arch "plug and play" may not always be "plug and play".