[aras]

W4s are slightly mid centric but with natural presentation meaning vocals are equally present as the instruments. On UM3X and SM3 I felt as if vocals are more emphasized than the instruments. I have not listened to E-Q7 but I own and about to return a pair of Grado GR10s which I believe are quite similar to e-q7 in bass response. W4s have more bass than GR10s but not significantly more. Treble on W4 has quite a bit of energy with enough smoothness using the stock grey mushrooms or comply tips. Yet, silicone tips with large bore opening (SM3 tips or phonak tips) seem to make them quite bright if you ever want to go that route. W4s have a very large soundstage and their transparency allows them to sound very spacious. Sm3 and um3x on the other hand, are quite thick so they are not as transparent as W4s.   

 

[Love Music]

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So far, I think I would recommend the Um3x and EX1000. Both have great bass and vocals. I find EX better with female vocals and westone quite nice with both male and female vocals. I find the SE 535 really nice with Utada Hikaru but not so good with scandal recordings. And it's horrible with One Ok Rock Uverworld and Spyair stuff.

 
Thanks. I really like your avatar picture btw

 
 
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 RE272 vocal sound great with great midrange details, clear highs and good bass response with good imaging and space, very good buy base on your requirements......

 
Thank you I will read reviews about them as well

 
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My own recommendation based on your listed preferences. First 3 points can be crossed off immediately, because both the CK100/CK100PRO do not have any issues with those at all, and will fufill those requirements easily, From the 4th point onwards, it gets alittle trickly as these 2 IEMs behave quite differently since they are tuned and built with their own DNA/sound signature, so I will try to explain alittle more in detail. My answers in bold.
Q) treble must be smooth (not harsh or too bright)
A) Both Audio-technica IEMs do present a smooth treble quality, with the CK100 presenting a more liquid/lush sound signature while the latter giving a slightly harder, grainy texture note/sound to it. Both will not fall under as harsh sounding, but both are considered bright-sounding IEMs to my ears. In terms of technical performance/analytical-ness level, the CK100PRO can probably be considered a notch or two levels higher than CK100, in terms of resolving clarity/resolution definition due to different FR tuning and different Knowles drivers been used in it. (despite both models are all based on 3-driver Knowles BA models)
Q) good soundstage- feels as if you’re listening to a live concert
A) Both have good soundstage properties, but CK100 has a smaller, more intimate soundstage feel due to it's mid-centric vocals, and a more rounded 3D-spatial cues in terms of sense of space. CK100PRO has a much larger width and taller depth/height, mimicking a pretty grand and expansive space, but it still goes according to your music track's original recording in the first place, meaning if it's meant to mimick a studio space, it sounds like a studio, if it's supposed to be a live symphony recording, it will show you the depth and width of a theatre hall accordingly.
So in this case, personally in my own words the CK100 presents a slightly more unnatural way of soundstage presentation/space, while CK100PRO is much more true to my ears in regards to the actual CD's original recording, in terms of accurate reproduction of the actual soundstage. Some people may prefer CK100's presentation, while others the CK100PRO.
Q) not a too bassy as I’m not much of a basshead. The eq-7’s bass is adequate for my needs.
A) Actually Audio-technica's CK family line of IEM models are never known for having overly-bassy/booming bass qualities, even the CKS line of family IEMs does not have that sort of traits, they just have huge huge amounts of tight, thumping quality bass with slighty mid-bump emphasis, with good extension in terms of sub-bass. Both CK100 and CK100PRO are adequate in terms of bass qualities to my ears, but I would say in terms of the diverse genres I listen these days (check my original review again if you have doubts) that I would definitely pick the CK100PRO over the earlier predecessor. CK100 is fine in terms of bass for japanese female vocals, but they just don't do so well for many ambient/acoustic music and also heavy/majestic orchestral or symphonic tracks, that do come in most anime/movie japanese OST soundtracks found these days.
Q) vocals a bit more forward than instruments. I like vocal centric headphones but I also want instruments to be engaging.
A) The CK100's are considered vocal-centric, thus I have already mentioned beforehand in my original thread review they are considered mid-centric IEMs. The CK100PRO not so much, but they are still forward-sounding in terms of vocals so nothing to worry about. They have good separation in terms of instruments from the vocals, so no your worries are unfounded as CK100PRO will separate the instruments from the vocals well to make them not congested/blended together, and yet you will hear both equally well in terms of clarity.
Q) good imaging (able to pin point where instruments are and not congested on complex passages.
A) Both IEM models are excellent in terms of imaging presentation and separation. You will not find your songs or tracks congested even in terms of complex passages. So yeah nothing to worry about.
Other than CK100/CK100PRO from Audio-technica, may I suggest the below maker models as they should be well within your listening preferences. But without a way to audition these you are still putting yourself in alot of risk, as some of us may hear things differently.

1. ATH-CK90PRO MKII - Dual-BA model also from ATH, definitely not as bright as CK100PRO's. but said to have the treble quality refinements of their multi-BA flagship model. Also a pretty balanced/linear-sounding pair of IEMs just like the 100PRO's according to owner impressions from japanese BBS. But I have not heard of this model before for myself yet, so take my above words with pinches of salt but it's still something for you to consider if you are willing to consider Audio-technica.
2. Final Audio Design Heaven C (FI-BA-SA) -Joker has written a review before on his long multi-IEM comparison thread against FAD's own Heaven S (FI-BA-SB), with the latter having a more vivid, edgier treble quality so I would advise against that, since you have stated you are sensitive to treble spikes/energy.
3. Sony MDR-EX1000 or EX800ST -Already recommended to you before in PM's, but their isolation properties may not measure up to other alternative universal IEMs, so give and take. However sound quality is definitely one of the best though for japanese vocals, that you can take my word for it.
4. Shure SE535 LTD -magical mids, improved highs from the previous model, and definitely not as bright as CK100PRO. Seems to sound good with most japanese female vocals I had tested with, but bass quantity is more than CK100PRO's so it could be a slight problem for you. (well there's already equalisation alternatives so since you are using Walkman Z which comes on Android platform, EQ-ing down or switching off ClearBass totally could be a good remedy for your case)

Hope the above helps.

 
 
Thank you for sharing your thoughts/impressions. I have no doubt that both the ck100 and ck100PRO will be good for Japanese female vocalists but in your opinion which one performs better for j-rock?

 

[Love Music]

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W4s are slightly mid centric but with natural presentation meaning vocals are equally present as the instruments. On UM3X and SM3 I felt as if vocals are more emphasized than the instruments. I have not listened to E-Q7 but I own and about to return a pair of Grado GR10s which I believe are quite similar to e-q7 in bass response. W4s have more bass than GR10s but not significantly more. Treble on W4 has quite a bit of energy with enough smoothness using the stock grey mushrooms or comply tips. Yet, silicone tips with large bore opening (SM3 tips or phonak tips) seem to make them quite bright if you ever want to go that route. W4s have a very large soundstage and their transparency allows them to sound very spacious. Sm3 and um3x on the other hand, are quite thick so they are not as transparent as W4s.   

 
Thank you.

 

[Haonan]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts/impressions. I have no doubt that both the ck100 and ck100PRO will be good for Japanese female vocalists but in your opinion which one performs better for j-rock?

I do prefer the CK100PRO's for J-rock genres, as it displays a much better PRat factor to my ears, and has a much edgier/energetic treble brightness that suits my ears more, but that's just my own listening preferences that's all and you shouldn't let my opinion cloud your purchase decision.

I may not have posted this before under my CK100PRO's thread discussion on Head-fi around here, but this is what I had shared before in my local forum's discussion thread, when I was discussing this pair of IEMs with some of the fellow local members under the HardwareZone forum.

I'm quite a sucker for female vocals, and imo female artists like ayaka, alan, Shiina Ringo, hiro or known as Coco d'Or (from SPEED), miwa, YUI, JUJU, Aoyama Thelma, Minmi, Utada Hikaru, Kana Nishino tends to rock more with the CK100PRO's, but for the prev predecessor flagship CK100, I do think artists like Ann Sally, Emi Fujita (from Le Couple), Olivia Ong, Maaya Sakamoto, Sachi Tainaka, Lia, ZARD sounds more poisonous on the latter according to my ears.

In my opinion, with the CK100PRO's due to the change in treble presentation and increased PRat factor, percussion instruments like bass drum, snare drum, cymbals are the most affected in terms of songs presentation, and quite apparent in many J-rock/Pop rock tracks that I usually listen. I do listen to all the bands/artists you have listed under your original post, and IMO if you are afraid the CK100PRO's may be too treble-happy for you, you can always use the 10-band equaliser under PowerAmp for your Walkman Z, by playing/tweaking with 8kHz onwards as this should change the harmonics of instruments like cymbals and higher-pitched female vocals if you are afraid of excessive brightness/sibilant levels. But to my ears, the CK100PRO's are never overly harsh or too bright for my ears with the Sony Walkman Z player, they share a pretty good synergy and even mates well with my TTVJ Slim portable amp (which adds a further warmth and liquid lushness to its already amazing midrange qualities).

I believe I have already mentioned abt this under my review impressions thread before, but just in case you forgotten all about it the predecessor model CK100 does not render male vocals accurately in terms of tonal balance, it's quite apparent when compared to the CK100PRO's. This is not only obvious to me in regards to most mainstream US/European male vocalist, but can happen to some japanese male vocalists with hefty vocals as well. I did tried the CK100 out of a Graham Slee Voyager sometime back and with the contour switch enabled, this problem was slightly fixed but then again, you are not going to purchase a portable amp to add to your current rig equation, neither do I think you will be interested in something like the Graham Slee Voyager product since it's quite a bulky transportable amp by any standards, so yeah it looks like if male artists/bands do dominate your playlist, you will be better off with the CK100PRO's instead and not the earlier flagship model.

 

[Love Music]

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I do prefer the CK100PRO's for J-rock genres, as it displays a much better PRat factor to my ears, and has a much edgier/energetic treble brightness that suits my ears more, but that's just my own listening preferences that's all and you shouldn't let my opinion cloud your purchase decision.
I may not have posted this before under my CK100PRO's thread discussion on Head-fi around here, but this is what I had shared before in my local forum's discussion thread, when I was discussing this pair of IEMs with some of the fellow local members under the HardwareZone forum.
In my opinion, with the CK100PRO's due to the change in treble presentation and increased PRat factor, percussion instruments like bass drum, snare drum, cymbals are the most affected in terms of songs presentation, and quite apparent in many J-rock/Pop rock tracks that I usually listen. I do listen to all the bands/artists you have listed under your original post, and IMO if you are afraid the CK100PRO's may be too treble-happy for you, you can always use the 10-band equaliser under PowerAmp for your Walkman Z, by playing/tweaking with 8kHz onwards as this should change the harmonics of instruments like cymbals and higher-pitched female vocals if you are afraid of excessive brightness/sibilant levels. But to my ears, the CK100PRO's are never overly harsh or too bright for my ears with the Sony Walkman Z player, they share a pretty good synergy and even mates well with my TTVJ Slim portable amp (which adds a further warmth and liquid lushness to its already amazing midrange qualities).
I believe I have already mentioned abt this under my review impressions thread before, but just in case you forgotten all about it the predecessor model CK100 does not render male vocals accurately in terms of tonal balance, it's quite apparent when compared to the CK100PRO's. This is not only obvious to me in regards to most mainstream US/European male vocalist, but can happen to some japanese male vocalists with hefty vocals as well. I did tried the CK100 out of a Graham Slee Voyager sometime back and with the contour switch enabled, this problem was slightly fixed but then again, you are not going to purchase a portable amp to add to your current rig equation, neither do I think you will be interested in something like the Graham Slee Voyager product since it's quite a bulky transportable amp by any standards, so yeah it looks like if male artists/bands do dominate your playlist, you will be better off with the CK100PRO's instead and not the earlier flagship model.

 
 
Thanks Haonan. Maybe the CK100PRO's fit my needs better since I do listen to alot of J-rock/metal as well, bands like X Japan, UVERworld, ONE OK ROCK, The Gazette, Luna Sea, L'arc en ciel, High and Mighty Color and Miyavi gets played alot in my player. The only thing that worries me is the sibilance issue and that it is less forgiving to poor recordings/tracks with lower bitrates (I do have music that are under 320kbps, I would say around 15%).
 
 
The CK100 will place you in the stage with the performers and vocalists will always be more upfront than the backgrround instruments. Where does the CK100PRO's place the listener?

 

[Peculier]

One thing to note about the CK100 Pro is that the section that connects the cable to the driver housing sort of swivels and turns.. You may find them fiddly and hard to use for the first few hours.

 

[Love Music]

@Peculier : Thanks. Hows the fit and the isolation on these?

 

[Haonan]

Thanks Haonan. Maybe the CK100PRO's fit my needs better since I do listen to alot of J-rock/metal as well, bands like X Japan, UVERworld, ONE OK ROCK, The Gazette, Luna Sea, L'arc en ciel, High and Mighty Color and Miyavi gets played alot in my player. The only thing that worries me is the sibilance issue and that it is less forgiving to poor recordings/tracks with lower bitrates (I do have music that are under 320kbps, I would say around 15%).


The CK100 will place you in the stage with the performers and vocalists will always be more upfront than the backgrround instruments. Where does the CK100PRO's place the listener?

In my very own words, vocalist placement/position on the CK100PRO isn't as intimate as found on the previous model CK100. Typically CK100's soundstaging/imaging presentation tends to be slightly more intimate by placing the listener on the performing stage itself, with the vocalist standing just right next to the listener, with the background instruments spreaded out around it alittle further apart, but because of the relatively non-existent distance feel between you and the vocalist, most vocal tracks will give you the feeling that it is drowning out the instruments easily as vocals takes up the dominant part. (and thus why I had mentioned in the first place it's a vocal-centric IEM). However if you are listening to some vocal tracks with just a single Guitar or Piano as their back-up instruments, you will not get this presentation feeling easily. (as Piano/Guitars falls under the midrange region in terms of the frequency spectrum, thus those will feel quite prominent/upfront rather than further behind the vocalist)

For CK100PRO's presentation wise, in terms of the vocalist they are still centered but feels more like a huge theatre hall instead of a mini stage play. It gives you the feeling you are sitting around the first row seats during the performance, with the main vocalist a few metres away from you. (they don't feel distant or far apart though so rest assured it still gives the listener a forward-sounding presentation in terms of vocals). Instruments can feel vaguely distant or closed-up too depending on the track recording but the presentation feels more airy/effortless, I believe this is due to the excellent dynamics so it tries to replicate the instruments' sounds accordingly to the track's recording by reproducing it more accurately/dynamically. You will not get the feeling that the instruments are being drown out by the vocals as compared to CK100's presentation, CK100PRO's clean and detailed treble will bring across the vocals as well as the instruments to you right on the table, in a clean and well-articulated manner just like how you will get when you listen to some pretty detailed/analytical headphones. (I have mentioned before that the CK100PRO's presentation reminds me alittle of the ATH-A2000X's, so if you have some experience with that it's about the same actually)

You don't have to worry too much about how they present the background instruments to you actually in regards to the CK100PRO. Those that had tried out the CK100PRO's demos before in my local country, as some had commented before on my own forum thread it has been mentioned before they do very very well in terms of instrumental presentation. This feeling will hit you easily once you have them on your ears and especially if you are moving up from those Ortofons, trust me.

One thing to note about the CK100 Pro is that the section that connects the cable to the driver housing sort of swivels and turns.. You may find them fiddly and hard to use for the first few hours.

Hi Peculier, it's always nice to see a fellow Head-fier who's from Singapore as well, thank you for sharing yr comments but no offence, I think that's quite a sweeping statement you are making there if you do not own the CK100PRO's yourself and only judging by the demo sets you had tried out at Jaben's outlet previously. FYI, if people can damage Sony's EX1000 cable connectors which comes with pretty rigid screw on modular cables at previous IT shows found at Sony's booth, I wouldn't be that surprised if people have been abusing the CK100PRO's demo sets at Jaben as well, since Jaben's store do get quite abit of crowd traffic as well, and it's probably the only local place in Singapore where you can try out the CK100PRO's normally.

On my own review impressions thread here on Head-fi and also on my dedicated discussion thread found on HardwareZone forums, as far as concerned there has never been any fellow owners of the CK100PRO who found their fit fiddly or hard to use. I believe I have already advised potential buyers on how to wear their CK100PRO's properly without any potential wearing/ergonomics issue as found under the Comfort/Fit/Isolation portion of the review article, and usually once I have them on my ears they never become fiddly or swivels easily. Due to the design of the IEM's MMCX-style connectors to the thick strain relief portion on the modular cables itself, it is supposed to be 360-degrees free to turn and rotatable by default. If you have tried out Shure IEMs in local stores here before, their MMCX-style cables actually bears a similar concept, just that Shure's cables are base on straight connector inputs and not L-shaped connector inputs.

 

[Love Music]

Thanks

 

[Love Music]

After reading much reviews. I've decided on getting either the Westone 4's or the FitEar F111. Any advice?

 

[Techno Kid]

Yeah get the SM3 V2 seriously though the W4 would be a great choice for the music you listen to imo, its a really good IEM I just like the SM3 a little bit more.

 

[theLiminator]

Actually, I think the RE0 is really good for JPOP in general. It's a fairly neutral IEM and sounds pretty airy to me (which I like with jpop).
 
This jpop song is awesome (it's not famous though):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNuNThdb2aQ

 

[Love Music]

Quote:

Actually, I think the RE0 is really good for JPOP in general. It's a fairly neutral IEM and sounds pretty airy to me (which I like with jpop).
 
This jpop song is awesome (it's not famous though):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNuNThdb2aQ

 
Thanks but I am looking for something thats an upgrade from the eq-7's, which can be quite difficult since they are already very good sounding IEM's.
 
The RE0 does stack up to alot of higher priced IEM's though from what i've heard.
 
 
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Yeah get the SM3 V2 seriously though the W4 would be a great choice for the music you listen to imo, its a really good IEM I just like the SM3 a little bit more.

 
Yeah, I don't know. I've tried to the SM3 before when I was in holiday, it sounded detailed and accurate. But it just wasn't engaging enough for me, but again this was using the colrfly c4 it maybe that I just don't like the sound signature of the player (It sounded very much like the neutron player app which I didn't like too much).  

 

[soonkiong]

I'd recommend the SM3 v2 as well. Auditioned the W4, UM3x, W3 before the SM3 v2, none of them sounded as fun as the SM3 v2 on my j-anime songs collection. Not very suitable for rock/metal genre though, the energy and sparkle isn't enough.

 

[Love Music]

Between the W4 and SM3, which one has bigger sounstage, more forward mids, better clarity and which one is more airy/transparent?