[adeadcrab]

... Too much detail lost in noise for HD650...

This is what I considered about the HD650, you lose a lot of microdetails (and regular detail!) but for those recordings taken from a hissy tape master it smooths it out nicely. I especially like them for overly compressed modern music, it makes listening less fatiguing, though maybe that's just me. FWIW I like my grado headphones with old jazz recordings to liven the sound up.

 

[Michael103]

This is what I considered about the HD650, you lose a lot of microdetails (and regular detail!) but for those recordings taken from a hissy tape master it smooths it out nicely. I especially like them for overly compressed modern music, it makes listening less fatiguing, though maybe that's just me. FWIW I like my grado headphones with old jazz recordings to liven the sound up.

I don't know if HD650 "smooths out" background noise any more than HD800 (don't know if that's theoretically possible either....). For overly compressed modern music they do tend to sound good, not sure why. HD800 does not sound good on those. I was skeptical whether it's really the record's fault, but the fact that some records sound really good makes it more likely that it's the mastering...

My main observation that might be of value is that making the noise more "noticeable" or clearer is not always a bad thing. We are able to filter out some noise and focus on the music, but only if there is distinctive music to hone in on.... Old records like Furtwangler's LvB symphonies are much more enjoyable on HD800 than HD650

 

[adeadcrab]

Well, the 650 smooths out everything except the midrange

I guess it depends on what we mean when we say 'bad recordings'

 

[Mightygrey]

I'm at my wits ends to find a good pair of headphones for classical music lot of these classical recording are technically subpar especially the old historical recordings even new recordings leave a lot to be desired.

My current headphone is the wonderful AUDEZE LCD-X it is very detailed but not the most forgiving headphone when it comes to bad recordings, it really hurt my ears to listen to bad recordings with this.

So is there headphones out there that would be dark or warm enough to help smooths out the bad recordings without losing too much detail retrieving? should I try closed headphones? Should I switch to a tube amp instead of solid state?

Thanks!

AUDEZE LCD-X
Cavalli Liquid Carbon v1
Topping D50 DAC

Hands-down the Sennheiser HD650. It's super-forgiving on harsh recordings with its euphonic, gentle treble. So much so, that I use it on with vinyl all the time - it's snap/crackle/pop-resistant!

 

[SilverEars]

I don't know if HD650 "smooths out" background noise any more than HD800 (don't know if that's theoretically possible either....). For overly compressed modern music they do tend to sound good, not sure why. HD800 does not sound good on those. I was skeptical whether it's really the record's fault, but the fact that some records sound really good makes it more likely that it's the mastering...

My main observation that might be of value is that making the noise more "noticeable" or clearer is not always a bad thing. We are able to filter out some noise and focus on the music, but only if there is distinctive music to hone in on.... Old records like Furtwangler's LvB symphonies are much more enjoyable on HD800 than HD650

650 does tend to blacken the background compared to the HD600.

For modern recording like pop I find HE500 and Focal Clear to sound best for those genres.

Some masterings just sound good out of anything.

 

[bagwell359]

Mostly noise and treble are the issues to me with bad recordings. You want detail, but not hyper detail which is why most German cans are right out the window. Audeze has some cans that can fill the need, but, for cost/performance the HFM HEX v2 will give an honest, clear, but not over defined sound. Deep bass, big soundstage, good mids, good highs too, but not alt al in your face. Must be going $700 used +/- $40. I listened to 6 Miles Davis mono Prestige recordings last month, some early Byrds.... all very nice.

 

[superfrognyc]

HD800 is actually very good with old classical recordings, contrary to what people say, much better than HD650 on the same r2r dac. Too much detail lost in noise for HD650; instrument details are much more distinctive with HD800, with noise in a background layer. For actually poorly mastered recordings (usually pop or something), not sure if it's something we should try to solve... (i personally don't have enough interest i guess)

I have lots of historical recordings, Furtwangler, Knappertsbusch, etc and for these the warmer the sound the better!
I do like the Senn HD family but I haven't tried the HD800 yet, but I did spend some time with the HD660s (I also have the 58x).

 

[superfrognyc]

Mostly noise and treble are the issues to me with bad recordings. You want detail, but not hyper detail which is why most German cans are right out the window. Audeze has some cans that can fill the need, but, for cost/performance the HFM HEX v2 will give an honest, clear, but not over defined sound. Deep bass, big soundstage, good mids, good highs too, but not alt al in your face. Must be going $700 used +/- $40. I listened to 6 Miles Davis mono Prestige recordings last month, some early Byrds.... all very nice.

I heard great things about the Hifiman Arya so I might give it a try.

 

[bagwell359]

I heard great things about the Hifiman Arya so I might give it a try.

Have not hear Arya yet, but from what I hear it's much more like the HEK Series than the HEX - that would make it quite a bit more likely to have edgy treble on crap recordings.

 

[SilverEars]

Have not hear Arya yet, but from what I hear it's much more like the HEK Series than the HEX - that would make it quite a bit more likely to have edgy treble on crap recordings.

I would recommend the HEX series as well. The HEXV2 I tried had no sibilance or peakiness at all. Very smooth, laidback, and relaxing signature. You can listen to it for hours and hours without fitigue.

 

[superfrognyc]

Have not hear Arya yet, but from what I hear it's much more like the HEK Series than the HEX - that would make it quite a bit more likely to have edgy treble on crap recordings.

Is that the one?

 

[bagwell359]

Is that the one?

Yes. But they don't sell it anymore - going with the Ananda (cheaper and IMO fatally flawed in the treble) and the Arya. I paid $725 for mine used about 5 months ago. Unless there is a lot of fancy expensive cables with it, i wouldn't expect to pay much more and it could/should be less.

The Mass Drop XX has gotten some fine write-ups from fans but gotten slammed by some reviewers. They are supposed to be a "fun" version of the HEX and the Ananda mixed together. Not sure, might be worth a look.

 

[superfrognyc]

Let me see If I can find a used one...in the meantime changing my DAC from Topping D50 to the Ayre Codex and the software HQPlayer to Amarra Luxe, provided HUGE improvements! Now the LCD-X is still a little bit too bright/aggressive for my taste (or older ears)

 

[mixman]

Let me see If I can find a used one...in the meantime changing my DAC from Topping D50 to the Ayre Codex and the software HQPlayer to Amarra Luxe, provided HUGE improvements! Now the LCD-X is still a little bit too bright/aggressive for my taste (or older ears)

Yeah that's a good recommendation, the HEX V2. It is a laid back HP, that will accommodate both good and bad recordings with ease. I would say if you think the LCD X is too revealing, stay away from the LCD2 CB it is brighter and not as warm sounding as the X. OTOH the LCD 2C would be a better option since it is darker sounding than the X, is a fun HP and a lot more forgiving sounding. I would say though the HEX is the best all around HP for what you are looking for since it would be more comfortable, easier to drive and has an almost universally more pleasing sound signature.

 

[superfrognyc]

Yeah that's a good recommendation, the HEX V2. It is a laid back HP, that will accommodate both good and bad recordings with ease. I would say if you think the LCD X is too revealing, stay away from the LCD2 CB it is brighter and not as warm sounding as the X. OTOH the LCD 2C would be a better option since it is darker sounding than the X, is a fun HP and a lot more forgiving sounding. I would say though the HEX is the best all-around HP for what you are looking for since it would be more comfortable, easier to drive and has an almost universally more pleasing sound signature.

Funny you mentioned the LCD2-C I just re-ordered a pair, I had one with the LCD-X for a week I returned it because side by side the LCD-X is just a better headphone the LCD2-C sounded darker and not as revealing, but now looking back and after living with the LCD-X for a few weeks the LCD2-C might be better suited for my ears.

I will give the Hifiman EX v2 a shot I just need to find a used one...Have you heard the Hifiman Ayra?