[Scotchman]

Hi,
 
I have done some research over the past day, but am a total novice when it comes to headphones, so I am hoping to get some advice/recommendations from those who are much more knowledgeable.
 
The purpose of the headphones I want to buy is to be able to watch my blu-rays and play my PS3 at night without disturbing my wife and son as they sleep (note they will not be in the same room). My current audio setup is a Pioneer 1018 a/v receiver, with a 5.1 Energy C-300 surround setup. I first tried to buy the new Playstation official headset, but found it was interfering with my controller, so had to return it. I don't really care whether the headphone is wireless or not and I sit about 9-10 feet away from the receiver. As far as the gaming goes, I am more interested in the feeling of immersion in games such as Call of Duty and Uncharted with good bass for the explosions than I am with hearing pinpoint directionality of footsteps (don't play too much multiplayer). Though, I'm not someone who would want a headphone that is just a bass blaster (and any that are less damaging to the ears would be a plus), just one that would deliver solid bass. As far as priorities, if I had to choose, I'd prefer the headphones excel in movies and be good with games rather than vice versa.
 
A few more notes - as much as I know it won't compare to a true surround system, I would only be interested in headphones that could deliver virtual surround sound. Still unsure if the Dolby Headphone I've read about is an add on product to headphones or if it is incorporated in them? Good surround sound would be a major plus for me. Another thing I read about is having an "amp" added onto your headphones. Since I'll be hooking this up to my a/v receiver will this be necessary? I'd like to avoid having to buy anything that isn't necessary. Which brings me to my budget, I would have a hard time spending more than $200 on these headphones (and would prefer to stay closer to $100) since they are my first real headphones and I'm really not sure I would be able to appreciate the nuances the higher level options would deliver. Since I'll be watching movies, head comfort would also be a very important factor.
 
I hope I have covered enough details that you will be able to offer me some suggestions. I'd like to jump on a holiday deal ASAP (any good ones, please let me know).  Some of the ones I've looked into so far (based on reading) are Sennheiser products and Audio Technica AD700. Also received a recommendation of an Ultrasone 780 (which was appreciated), but would like to see if I can gather a few more responses to help me form a consensus as well as answers to my two questions in the paragraph above. Please help me decide!

 
 
Thanks in advance for any responses!

 

[MalVeauX]

Quote:

Some of the ones I've looked into so far (based on reading) are Sennheiser products and Audio Technica AD700. Also received a recommendation of an Ultrasone 780 (which was appreciated), but would like to see if I can gather a few more responses to help me form a consensus as well as answers to my two questions in the paragraph above. Please help me decide!

The AD700 has none of the bass or immersion you're seeking. It's a hallow headphone with a big unnaturally expansive sound stage. It's misheralded as the headphone for gaming, due to that sound stage, and nothing more. The headphone itself is just a two big drivers that do mids & treble (and do them well), but completely lack in the low end department, making them just feel thin and unpleasing for movies and for games where you want to hear an explosion with a good rumble. All I can say is, imagine the epic sound track of an incredible film on your energy setup, but turn the subwhoofer off and turn the bass down so that it's all just mids & treble from the tweeters. That's close to what the AD700 will be like. After 100hz, that headphone just rolls off and can't do sub-bass, so imagine a setup without a subwhoofer and that's that.
 
The AD900 on the other hand is a little better in this department, better in all ways, but still not that big on the bass.
 
Note, open headphones will be heard. I can say with certainty that in a quiet house, people sleeping, even behind a door, if you have open headphones turned up to even moderate volumes, someone could hear it. The only time I can't hear it specifically is if it's upstairs with the door shut and someone is down stairs. A quiet house though at night? Closed headphones will keep things quiet. Open, well, people will hear it if the rooms are even two rooms apart from each other in distance. Just a note.
 
Dolby Headphone is basically emulation of surround sound. Headsets that include it, have it in the sense of their software/hardware doing the emulation (such as built into the usb interface, etc). You can get it for the PS3 in the form of the Astro Mixamp for example. Many newer receivers actually have some surround sound capability for headphones (it's emulation; all surround sound for headphones are emulated, remember, you have two drivers, so it will never be true surround with discreet channels, so get that idea of "surround sound" headphones and understand it's pure emulation, every time). Some receivers even have dolby headphone specifically. So check up on what your receiver is capable of. Then just PS3 -> optical -> receiver -> headphones. Enable surround sound or whatever you may have on that receiver for the headphones specifically if you have that feature. If not, well, you'll just have stereo and that's it. If you want more, you'll need something capable of it. I will say, I picked up an inexpensive receiver on sale ($139 on black friday/cyber monday deals, the Pioneer VSX-521, it does surround with headphones on it's own at the push of a button, and can still be used with normal speakers for a discreet 5.1 setup; it drives headphones quite well too and sounds great; heck of a deal for someone looking for an inexpensive option for headphones and speakers; check it out).
 
I would ideally put you on a neutral headphone, or at least something that isn't just a pure bass monster, with good sound stages, that are closed back, probably something like the Fischer Audio FA-003 (wonderful headphone) or it's rebrand the HM5. See here for more information. Also, if you're willing, look into the FA-002W (it's an open-back version of the FA-003, but reclosed with wood cups, and it's excellent). Or I would put you on a used Denon D2000, or ideally, a used/refurb Denon D5000. Other options would bet he Ultrasone PRO 650 (PRO series have a wider sound stage than HFI series in Ultrasone). Also look into the Beyer DT770. Look into the AudioTechnica A900 (closed).
 
Very best,

 

[Scotchman]

MalVeauX,
 
Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed response. I do have a few follow up questions to your post, if you would be so kind again. I checked my Pioneer receiver manual and it does look like it outputs surround sound through the headphones. Does this mean that I wouldn't need to worry about Dolby Headphone? Understanding that a headphone would only have two channels of sound and the surround effect would be emulation, if I am understanding correctly it would be my receiver that is creating the surround sound emulation? In this case, would I not need to worry about getting an amp such as Astro Mixamp?
 
Lastly, I don't really understand the following statements: Then just PS3 -> optical -> receiver -> headphones.
 
I currently have my PS3 running through HDMI to the receiver. Are you saying I would need to change this or the PS3 audio settings in order to use the headphones? I'm hoping I'll just need to hook the phones up to the receiver and through the receiver enable the surround sound through the headphones and then I'd be set.
 
And - "it does surround with headphones on it's own at the push of a button, and can still be used with normal speakers for a discreet 5.1 setup; it drives headphones quite well too and sounds great"
 
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that the receiver drives the plain speakers in the headphones to deliver an emulated 5.1 surround setup?
 
I appreciate your help very much!
 
Thanks,
 
Scotchman

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,
 
To know what kind of surround your receiver can generate for the headphones, simply plug in a pair of anything and test it out. If it sounds good to you, you're set. If that's the case, you can avoid something like the Astro Mixamp. Saves you a buck. The receiver in your case is doing all the work (it will do the emulation, has it's own DAC and has it's own amp of course--the source signal coming from the PS3 from HDMI or optical/spdiff assuming digital signal which it is).
 
The circuit, as mentioned, is simply PS3 -> HDMI or optical/spdiff (your digital signal) -> receiver (the dac & amp basically) -> output to headphones. Simply describing the chain.
 
HDMI is fine, optical is fine. Either way. Both are digital signals that carry the audio to your receiver.
 
What I was saying about the receiver is, you can plug in headphones and enable the surround feature for headphones (assuming your receiver has this option) and just as easily take the headphones away and have a real 5.1 speaker setup, all from the same device (an advantage compared to using something like the astro mixamp, or when using discreet headphone specific DAC/AMPs that cannot power or connect to enough speakers for a real 5.1 speaker setup should you not use headphones for example).
 
Very best,

 

[Scotchman]

Got it - after checking out my receiver manual, it says it has a surround sound option through headphones so I think I should be good there. Thank you for your help!

 

[Scotchman]

Just as a follow up, after doing a lot more research, I am heavily leaning towards the Denon D2000. However, the current price I'm seeing of $349 is higher than I'd like to pay. Does anyone know of any reputable sites that are currently selling these cheaper? I'd be open to buying used for a discount if I felt like it was a trustworthy situation.
 
These seem to fit what I am looking for - comfort is a big thing for me as I'm a big man (6'9") and really would prefer a headphone that sits around my ears, not on top of them (as it seems some of these other over the ear phones would do). To recap, I will be using these solely for the purpose of blu ray movies and PS3 gaming and hooking them up directly to my Pioneer 1018 receiver, which has a headphone surround setting. Does anyone think I am making a mistake or would recommend me another set that would fit my criteria for cheaper and be as good as the D2000's for movies and gaming?
 
Thanks in advance for any responses!

 

[MegaMushroom]

Not sure how the Sennheiser HD598s compare to Denons, but I've found it a great headphone for both gaming and movie watching.  The issue with the 598s is the fact that they fluctuate in price quite a bit.  If you are willing to be patient, they'll drop to around ~180.  

 

[Scotchman]

Hey MegaMushroom - I did check out the Sennheiser 598s, and the price is pretty good right now on them on Amazon. Only issue I found with those was that they are open rather than closed. With the object of these being that I will watch movies and game at night with wife and child sleeping a few rooms over, I'd be concerned about noise leakage. Also, from what I've read it seems that closed is generally better suited for that immersive movie theater feel with good (but not overwhelming) bass.

 

[FuzzyD]

I recently picked up a Yamaha RX-V667 receiver on Cyber Monday which has Silent Cinema (Yamaha's version of Dolby Headphone). I was specifically in the market for a new receiver that had Dolby Headphone so I could do away the hassle of getting my Astro MixAmp out every time I wanted to game in the living room with my AD700s. I read several opinions that preferred Silent Cinema to Dolby Headphone so I went with it. 
 
Anyway, when I used to game with my AD700 and the A40 mixamp, I would agree with the MalVeauX's stance on their sound signature. HOWEVER, after using them the last 3 days with the Yamaha in Silent Cinema playing Uncharted 3, and testing some Blu Ray movies, I can definitely say I feel their sound signature is different. SC really warmed them up added a lot more punch to the low end. It also seems to tame the AD700 sparkle quite a bit and make them much less fatiguing. It helps that with SC, you can tweak some settings like treble and bass. Supposedly there are some positional settings that can be tweaked as well but I haven't found or gone looking for them yet. All of the sound stage they are known for remains and directional positioning is as good, if not better than with Dolby Headphone on A40 mixamp. In my opinion, I really don't think you can get "too much" sound stage with headphones for gaming, so I don't agree with the knock on AD700's "unnaturally expansive" soundstage. If Sully is yelling at me from 50 feet away in Uncharted, I want him to sound like he's 50 feet away, not just a few steps behind me. If someone is firing a sniper rifle from the other side of the map in Battlefield, well I want my sound stage to feel very expansive and portray to me that distance.
 
Therefore, I still think the AD700 are a fantastic choice for gaming. They were good with the Astro mixamp, and they are very good with Yamaha's Silent Cinema. I'm going to be selling my mixamp next week. PM me if you're interested.
 
If you go the receiver route, I believe the entire Yamaha line has Silent Cinema, the mid to high end Denons have Dolby Headphone, and all of the Marantz AVRs have Dolby Headphone, I believe (and the Pioneer model mentioned already).

 

[Jae304]

It's a shame you're having trouble finding the Denons for a better price, they are absolutely fantastic imo.  I also agree with Mal's assessment of the AD700, they are simply not in the same league when it comes to immersion.  I purchased a set based on all the positive reviews I read and didn't hang onto them for long at all simply cause I couldn't stand their sound signature.  They sounded like two tin cans strapped to the side of my head! 

 
edit: wanted to add that I own an Astro mixamp but almost always game on my Sony receiver using it's "Headphone Theater" so i've had the chance to try the headphones on both types of equipment.  While I agree with Fuzzy that a good receiver def warms up the AD's somewhat, they still couldn't hold a candle to the Denons.  

 

[Scotchman]

So after pretty much making up my mind that I wanted the Denon D2000's, I'm now having second thoughts. I've read a number of reviews today that mention a structural design flaw regarding a screw that is prone to breaking. Also, I really want to order a set soon and I'm not keen on the $349 price tag I'm currently seeing for the D2000's. Has anyone else encountered this screw issue with these?
 
Some of the other options I am currently looking at based on my research here:
 
Sennheiser 598 - not too concerned about sound leakage due to being open, but more worried that I won't get that immersive feeling I'm looking for with enough bass to deliver on war/action movies.
Ultrasone Pro 650
Beyerdynamic - 770 Pro 80, Premium DT 880 (250 ohms), Premium DT 990 (250 ohms) - not crazy about the looks and worried that they will fit comfortably around my ears as the "earholes" seem to be smaller indicating some of the felt will be resting on my ears. Also, having trouble deciding between the 3 models as to which best suits my needs.
 
If anyone can lend me some advice to help me make up my mind I would be very grateful.

 

[Hzwwwc2]

I would say HD 555, its extremely comfortable, and very light. Good for movie and music.

 

[Scotchman]

So I ended up buying a pair of the Denon D2000's last night through Amazon's warehouse for $250 - listed as used, like new. I've had good experiences with Amazon with returns, but I'm hoping they really are basically new. Also hoping Denon has fixed that screw issue by now. As my first headphone purchase I am hoping that these will provide a lot of listening enjoyment. Thanks to all at Head-Fi who were immensely helpful with advice as well as the great forum conversations here. Happy holidays!

 

[TMRaven]

I bought mine for 190 used-like new from amazon 6 months ago.  Still holding up on me and they arrived in perfect condition.  I think you'll be happy with your experience.  Btw D2000s are absolutely fantastic movie headphones.

 

[SChimahusky]

Just to make a clarifying point... Your HDMI cable from the PS3 will NOT carry a 5.1/7.1, etc. signal to your receiver.  Only the optical audio out on the back of the PS3 will carry that signal.  You have to plug an optical cable from your PS3 to your receiver in order to truly have surround sound.  That is important for your home theater setup.  However, for your headphones, I am not sure if an optical cable (rather than your current HDMI) would make a difference since the receiver is not outputting true surround through the headphone jack anyway.