lolos
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DOUBLE POST.
BEST EARBUD? BOSE IN EAR, SENNHEISER MX-90, AUDIO-TECHNICATH-CM700ti, or YUIN PK1
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lolos
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I think atx meant that they are overpriced (i.e. marketing strategy not more). No earbuds costs $140 and the quality is questionable (based on Evisun post). I haven't tried it but pictures and user comments speak for themselves.
digitalcat
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They're all made in Guangdong province of China, some of them are not even designed by major brands like ATH and sennheiser. 10 years ago you could probably get earbuds made in Japan....
Quote:
Quote:
| Originally Posted by lolos And it is interesting.. who makes ATH and where are they made? What is wrong with them? Do you have any problem with their quality? |
lolos
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Everything is made in China these days.. there is nothing wrong about it.. but it is always good to know
Although, my sold ATH-EC7 sayid made in Japan!
It doesn't matter where it is made from... of course it gives a sense of reliability.. but what matters most is the final product. I am sorry to see everyone is taking subjective matters and not relating to the actual question:
-SQ
-Comfort
-Durability (build quality)
-Value (expensive doesn't mean better)
And hopefully objective real comparison.
For those who say don't listen to others.. I will make my own decision at the end.. but I believe this thread and others similar to it are asking the same question many people like myself want to know... which is, again, are the pros and cons of every new high-end earbud?!
Nonetheless, thanks digitalcat.. I didn't mean anything to your post.
Although, my sold ATH-EC7 sayid made in Japan!
It doesn't matter where it is made from... of course it gives a sense of reliability.. but what matters most is the final product. I am sorry to see everyone is taking subjective matters and not relating to the actual question:
-SQ
-Comfort
-Durability (build quality)
-Value (expensive doesn't mean better)
And hopefully objective real comparison.
For those who say don't listen to others.. I will make my own decision at the end.. but I believe this thread and others similar to it are asking the same question many people like myself want to know... which is, again, are the pros and cons of every new high-end earbud?!
Nonetheless, thanks digitalcat.. I didn't mean anything to your post.
clifford
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Hi, lolos:
I totally understand your concern. Nobody will spend 140 on something uncertain, especially quality and warranty, no matter where it was made. Well, let us see what happened three month later then. If there are ton of complains about the wire, we will know. Maybe also the warranty issue.
I totally understand your concern. Nobody will spend 140 on something uncertain, especially quality and warranty, no matter where it was made. Well, let us see what happened three month later then. If there are ton of complains about the wire, we will know. Maybe also the warranty issue.
atx
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Quote:
I don't have to look at ATHs. My Bose IE is made in China.
The difference here is that Bose is a multi-national corporation. If there's a problem, I can either return the product to the store, or call Bose's office for a warranty repair-- and I know that Bose won't give me a gmail email address for support. If Bose as a business entity gives me problems, I can contact the FTC or the local authority or a lawyer.
My Aria is also made in China.
The difference here is that Jan Meier doesn't live in China and his business is a European entity. How he runs his business internally is his problem. He can outsource the work to China, India, Africa, hire children to put the pieces together-- I don't care. What I do care is whether he charges a price that is proportionally tempered to the costs of running a business in Europe --- WHY? because this is a fundamental indicator of how trustworthy his business is. For example, if it costs him $40 to make the Aria but he charges me $450 for it, then frankly he's not a trustworthy person to do business with because he's just out to screw me. Even if the Aria sounds as good as a $500 amp, to give him that much profit margin is nothing less than a slap in the face.
This is the SAME reason why Bose haters feel the way they do -- i.e. they feel that they're paying for a product whose TRUE value is much less than the price they ask for. Even if Bose makes GOOD sounding headphones, some people would simply refuse to give their hard-earned cash because giving Bose their business is a personal slap in the face. In other words, they feel ripped off because Bose's profit margin is very large. Another way put, Bose is a greedy person of a company with gimmicks of scamming you out of your money.
I feel the same way about products that are made by a Chinese company but are charging at US/European prices.
Quote:
Do you know that diamonds are cheap? Yes. You're paying a high price for diamonds because DeBeers is controlling the diamond supply the same way as OPEC (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/198202/diamond). You may believe that a 1-pound diamond is worth a whole lot of cash and, in your personal valuation, it's a reasonable price to pay, but this is nothing more than ignorance. Buying diamonds from DeBeers is a way of sustaining the abuses of DeBeers at the cost of the African mine laborers.
If the average chinese worker makes $100 a month and a chinese company makes tremendous profit margins by selling $140 earbuds, you can bet that the majority of that profit margin is not going back to the chinese laborers (no more than DeBeers would pay African mine workers a higher wage if you buy more diamonds).
I'm rambling. My point is that a chinese company that sells $140 earbuds and makes filthy profits is no more trustworthy than DeBeers-- its fundamental business model is destructive to society and abusive in nature. Would I buy such a product? Not if there are alternatives.
| Originally Posted by Nankai BTW: To lolos and atx: Why not ask around and find out who made those ATHs and where they are? |
I don't have to look at ATHs. My Bose IE is made in China.
The difference here is that Bose is a multi-national corporation. If there's a problem, I can either return the product to the store, or call Bose's office for a warranty repair-- and I know that Bose won't give me a gmail email address for support. If Bose as a business entity gives me problems, I can contact the FTC or the local authority or a lawyer.
My Aria is also made in China.
The difference here is that Jan Meier doesn't live in China and his business is a European entity. How he runs his business internally is his problem. He can outsource the work to China, India, Africa, hire children to put the pieces together-- I don't care. What I do care is whether he charges a price that is proportionally tempered to the costs of running a business in Europe --- WHY? because this is a fundamental indicator of how trustworthy his business is. For example, if it costs him $40 to make the Aria but he charges me $450 for it, then frankly he's not a trustworthy person to do business with because he's just out to screw me. Even if the Aria sounds as good as a $500 amp, to give him that much profit margin is nothing less than a slap in the face.
This is the SAME reason why Bose haters feel the way they do -- i.e. they feel that they're paying for a product whose TRUE value is much less than the price they ask for. Even if Bose makes GOOD sounding headphones, some people would simply refuse to give their hard-earned cash because giving Bose their business is a personal slap in the face. In other words, they feel ripped off because Bose's profit margin is very large. Another way put, Bose is a greedy person of a company with gimmicks of scamming you out of your money.
I feel the same way about products that are made by a Chinese company but are charging at US/European prices.
Quote:
| Originally Posted by clifford Strange logic. Because a chinese worker makes $100 a month, you will not spend 140 for this earbud? If it is as good as or even better than other 140 earbud, it should worth this price. If you only pay 20, you are the one who rip other people off. Another, the PK1 is not a damn thing, rather a damn good thing. |
Do you know that diamonds are cheap? Yes. You're paying a high price for diamonds because DeBeers is controlling the diamond supply the same way as OPEC (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/198202/diamond). You may believe that a 1-pound diamond is worth a whole lot of cash and, in your personal valuation, it's a reasonable price to pay, but this is nothing more than ignorance. Buying diamonds from DeBeers is a way of sustaining the abuses of DeBeers at the cost of the African mine laborers.
If the average chinese worker makes $100 a month and a chinese company makes tremendous profit margins by selling $140 earbuds, you can bet that the majority of that profit margin is not going back to the chinese laborers (no more than DeBeers would pay African mine workers a higher wage if you buy more diamonds).
I'm rambling. My point is that a chinese company that sells $140 earbuds and makes filthy profits is no more trustworthy than DeBeers-- its fundamental business model is destructive to society and abusive in nature. Would I buy such a product? Not if there are alternatives.
kramer5150
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Ive been IM'ing Nankai over the past couple days. I'm on the waiting list to review the Yuin PK2 and then the PK1.
Expect a mid-fi ~$100 shoot out in the upcoming weeks.
PK2 -VS- PK1 -VS- MDR-EX90 -VS- Jayes D-jays
For kicks I'll toss the KSC75 into the ring and see how they all stack up.
Stay tuned!!
Expect a mid-fi ~$100 shoot out in the upcoming weeks.
PK2 -VS- PK1 -VS- MDR-EX90 -VS- Jayes D-jays
For kicks I'll toss the KSC75 into the ring and see how they all stack up.
Stay tuned!!
Quote:
Bose do, however, have a cunning plan. One reason that I feel the way I do about DVDs is that I bought all those boxed sets (e.g. The Godfather) at massive premium prices, and now the veil of apparent value has been stripped away and they're being sold at a third of the price. Bose never aggressively discount, meaning that while the manufacturing cost of their products may be low, they are never going to rub your face in it.
Another factor with Bose is that their manufacturing runs are fairly large for the niche in which they operate, which means that their margin is always going to be higher than a smaller company. It's the same with Sony: if margin were a constant, Sony would produce the cheapest mass-market electronics, but in fact they're one of the most expensive brands. If you're going to lambast Bose you should be at least as hard on Sony who, with the possible exception of the late lamented Aibo, have never been as imaginative as Bose in terms of product design.
The IEs are the first Bose product that I've ever owned: at $100 they are not by any stretch of the imagination expensive, and they really do sound very good.
| Originally Posted by atx This is the SAME reason why Bose haters feel the way they do -- i.e. they feel that they're paying for a product whose TRUE value is much less than the price they ask for. Even if Bose makes GOOD sounding headphones, some people would simply refuse to give their hard-earned cash because giving Bose their business is a personal slap in the face. In other words, they feel ripped off because Bose's profit margin is very large. Another way put, Bose is a greedy person of a company with gimmicks of scamming you out of your money. |
Bose do, however, have a cunning plan. One reason that I feel the way I do about DVDs is that I bought all those boxed sets (e.g. The Godfather) at massive premium prices, and now the veil of apparent value has been stripped away and they're being sold at a third of the price. Bose never aggressively discount, meaning that while the manufacturing cost of their products may be low, they are never going to rub your face in it.
Another factor with Bose is that their manufacturing runs are fairly large for the niche in which they operate, which means that their margin is always going to be higher than a smaller company. It's the same with Sony: if margin were a constant, Sony would produce the cheapest mass-market electronics, but in fact they're one of the most expensive brands. If you're going to lambast Bose you should be at least as hard on Sony who, with the possible exception of the late lamented Aibo, have never been as imaginative as Bose in terms of product design.
The IEs are the first Bose product that I've ever owned: at $100 they are not by any stretch of the imagination expensive, and they really do sound very good.
Superbaldguy
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Simple answer - Sony MDR-E888 and the Audio Technica ATH-CM7. These are the best sounding earbuds out there.
blazer78
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Quote:
Agreed.
| Originally Posted by Superbaldguy Simple answer - Sony MDR-E888 and the Audio Technica ATH-CM7. These are the best sounding earbuds out there. |
Agreed.
Evisu
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need to clarify something here. just wanted to provide alternative places for the YUINs as i see they are cheaper by a big margin.
www.headphonehk.com. warranty issues, their website says "YUIN is a DIY homemade brand, thus warranties maybe at risk" their prices are PK1 (101.5us), PK2 (33.4us), and PK3 (20.6us). http://headphonehk.com/other.htm
Warranty/Trustworthy? im not sure as a member here says they arent authorized YUIN dealer. i havent have any problem product with them yet(i bought hd595 with them). headphonehk.com is the sole distributor for Westone products in HongKong.
i tried the yuin earbuds @ a shop called Mingo headphone club. their yuin do provide warranty as i have said it in my review thread.
6months 1 for 1 exchange/ 1year parts and labor for pk2/3, and 2 years parts and labor for pk1. List price for PK1 2 3 @ Mingo are PK1 (114.4us), PK2 (37.3us), PK3 (24.2us) http://www.mingo-hmw.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26886
i recommend PK3s. as it is the earbud performs best out of the 3 w/o an amp. better clarity vs pk2's bassy but a bit veiled. with an amp PK1 shines, it sound like headphone. with soundstage clarity strong mids and highs like e4c and pk2's bass.
also recommend to pay the extra for warranty if the cord stiffening issue (not cord broken) is covered.
As for "Made in Japan" "Japan Only" earbuds. 1 year ago "all" Audio Technica earbuds were still "Made in Japan". but this year the low and mid range earbuds are produced in China. Only the high-end ones (cm700ti) remains "Made in Japan". in my opinion, whether its made in china or not doesnt really matter. as long as the company has good Quality Control.
www.headphonehk.com. warranty issues, their website says "YUIN is a DIY homemade brand, thus warranties maybe at risk" their prices are PK1 (101.5us), PK2 (33.4us), and PK3 (20.6us). http://headphonehk.com/other.htm
Warranty/Trustworthy? im not sure as a member here says they arent authorized YUIN dealer. i havent have any problem product with them yet(i bought hd595 with them). headphonehk.com is the sole distributor for Westone products in HongKong.
i tried the yuin earbuds @ a shop called Mingo headphone club. their yuin do provide warranty as i have said it in my review thread.
6months 1 for 1 exchange/ 1year parts and labor for pk2/3, and 2 years parts and labor for pk1. List price for PK1 2 3 @ Mingo are PK1 (114.4us), PK2 (37.3us), PK3 (24.2us) http://www.mingo-hmw.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26886
i recommend PK3s. as it is the earbud performs best out of the 3 w/o an amp. better clarity vs pk2's bassy but a bit veiled. with an amp PK1 shines, it sound like headphone. with soundstage clarity strong mids and highs like e4c and pk2's bass.
also recommend to pay the extra for warranty if the cord stiffening issue (not cord broken) is covered.
As for "Made in Japan" "Japan Only" earbuds. 1 year ago "all" Audio Technica earbuds were still "Made in Japan". but this year the low and mid range earbuds are produced in China. Only the high-end ones (cm700ti) remains "Made in Japan". in my opinion, whether its made in china or not doesnt really matter. as long as the company has good Quality Control.
Let me show you a link, which is YUIN's official saling page in www.erji.net, which is the biggest headphone website in China.
http://www.erji.net/read.php?tid=180960&keyword=
The following is the picture of that webpage:
click here for large pic
Line 2 and 3 clearly declared the free waranty for cord issue.
We don't know why you insisted on the cord issure, because almost every hifi fan in China knows that YUIN's waranty is perfect, and their waranty does include cords. In addition, we plan to extend our waranty to 3 years from 2007.
Mingo is our authorized dealer in HK area and they did do good job include waranty. Every month our factory received some cord broken YUIN earphones from Mingo(http://www.mingo-hmw.com) and we do our best to exchange those broken cords for sure. If anybody have question, just send email to mingo212@hotmail.com and inquiry.
BTW: We regret for those YUIN Customer purchased in www.headphonehk.com. They are not our authorized dealer and there is no waranty for their YUIN products.
Quote:
http://www.erji.net/read.php?tid=180960&keyword=
The following is the picture of that webpage:
click here for large pic
Line 2 and 3 clearly declared the free waranty for cord issue.
We don't know why you insisted on the cord issure, because almost every hifi fan in China knows that YUIN's waranty is perfect, and their waranty does include cords. In addition, we plan to extend our waranty to 3 years from 2007.
Mingo is our authorized dealer in HK area and they did do good job include waranty. Every month our factory received some cord broken YUIN earphones from Mingo(http://www.mingo-hmw.com) and we do our best to exchange those broken cords for sure. If anybody have question, just send email to mingo212@hotmail.com and inquiry.
BTW: We regret for those YUIN Customer purchased in www.headphonehk.com. They are not our authorized dealer and there is no waranty for their YUIN products.
Quote:
| Originally Posted by Evisu need to clarify something here. just wanted to provide alternative places for the YUINs as i see they are cheaper by a big margin. www.headphonehk.com. warranty issues, their website says "YUIN is a DIY homemade brand, thus warranties maybe at risk" their prices are PK1 (101.5us), PK2 (33.4us), and PK3 (20.6us). http://headphonehk.com/other.htm Warranty/Trustworthy? im not sure as a member here says they arent authorized YUIN dealer. i havent have any problem product with them yet(i bought hd595 with them). headphonehk.com is the sole distributor for Westone products in HongKong. i tried the yuin earbuds @ a shop called Mingo headphone club. their yuin do provide warranty as i have said it in my review thread. 6months 1 for 1 exchange/ 1year parts and labor for pk2/3, and 2 years parts and labor for pk1. List price for PK1 2 3 @ Mingo are PK1 (114.4us), PK2 (37.3us), PK3 (24.2us) http://www.mingo-hmw.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26886 i recommend PK3s. as it is the earbud performs best out of the 3 w/o an amp. better clarity vs pk2's bassy but a bit veiled. with an amp PK1 shines, it sound like headphone. with soundstage clarity strong mids and highs like e4c and pk2's bass. also recommend to pay the extra for warranty if the cord stiffening issue (not cord broken) is covered. As for "Made in Japan" "Japan Only" earbuds. 1 year ago "all" Audio Technica earbuds were still "Made in Japan". but this year the low and mid range earbuds are produced in China. Only the high-end ones (cm700ti) remains "Made in Japan". in my opinion, whether its made in china or not doesnt really matter. as long as the company has good Quality Control. |
PK3 earbuds is the cheapest earbud in YUIN's product line and their sound is not as good as PK2 for sure, no matter driven by what kind of mp3 player, headfi fan can easily tell the difference. That is why, as YUIN's agency here, I did not release PK3 in headfi.
BTW: I don't want to talk about myself too much. However, let's say something because I don't want to be treat as layman. Before I came to US, I used to be a headphone fan and I has the experience on most of the earbuds during last 25 years and was invited to write earbud reviews for the top consumer electronics magazine "EFASHION". If I had time, I will translate those articles into English and post here.
BTW: I don't want to talk about myself too much. However, let's say something because I don't want to be treat as layman. Before I came to US, I used to be a headphone fan and I has the experience on most of the earbuds during last 25 years and was invited to write earbud reviews for the top consumer electronics magazine "EFASHION". If I had time, I will translate those articles into English and post here.
Our shipping is FREE and we do GLOBAL EXPRESS. That is why the price here is so different from local store. Thing will change as soon as we find a US dealer and I am sure it will be soon. However, remember HK is a tax-free city and for sure US price will be a little higher even in the future.
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