[Tomcat]

Wow, Nick,
you are one merciless Head-Fier! Using the W100 as a hammer during a refrigerator restoration project (you seem to have lots and lots of hobbies, though).

Yes, I remember your initial W100 review has been just as merciless:

Quote:

My ears slowly accepted the unique characteristics of the W100's. Listening closely to Bach's Allegro Brandenburg Concerto No.4 revealed the "polite", "musical" nature of the W100. Strings and voices were rendered with a highly appealing, intimate quality. Aside from their visual beauty, the exceptional rendering of midrange sounds is the W100's strongest asset.

Well, we all change, don't we.

By the way, the W100 tends to change as well. The W100 you based your comments on has been the one that Matt tried to burn in for 200 hours straight? Am I right? The one that he - after a somewhat lukewarm relationship in the beginning - fell in love with at 400+ hours? Is that the W100 you are talking about?

 

[acidtripwow]

Quote:

Thanks for the recommendations by everyone except for that one jack ass remark (I think everybody knows who that was).

LOL. Dude, I was on the floor I was laughing so hard!

 

[domer2004]

Thanks guys. I know I can deliberate over something to death!! As I have found with most things, the law of diminishing returns holds true -- especially when researching and comparing!! After hearing so many positive HD 600 reviews (not that it was the first time either

), I think I am gonna try a Headroom amp coupled with an HD 600 since Headroom has the 30 day money back thing. Waranties are sooooooooo sweeeeet you guys. Thanks gaineso for your advice about the Headroom amps. Oh and also thanks for your icon, pretty woman. Now I am off to the amps forum to find the best SS (no tubes please) amp to push the HD 600. Ciao

Brett

 

[kelly]

The W100 would not make a good hammer or a good weapon. Maybe you could use it to knock sense into people from time to time but for the damage factor, I'd go with the SR-325 or HP-1.

This thread should better be titled "What are the most popular headphones amongst people who post a lot?" Those have all been listed by now.

I'm still researching what I consider to be the "best" amp for driving the HD600 in the below $2000 range. I strongly recommend auditioning if at all possible.

 

[Nick Dangerous]

Twin Head? RKV? MicroZOTL w/proper tubes? Earmax Pro?

Concerning the W100... yes, it was Matt's 400+ hour one. It did have a magic midrange, but only when the planets were aligned just so. I had to find the right music, use the right amp, sit in the right position, tuck my elbow behind my head... and VOILA the W100's sounded a bit better than the HD600 in certain, limited ways.

Twas a frustrating headphone. Great at times, horrible at others. I heard the W2002 briefly. It seemed to have a much different (i.e. better) character than the W100.

 

[The Quality Guru]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nick Dangerous Did someone say W100? Eh. No. Freaking. Way. I don't get this headphone at all. It was the biggest hi-fi letdown of 2002. I unclog my nose in its direction. I polish its wooden exterior with lard before I carve my initials in it. Then, I use it as a hammer during a refridgerator restoration project. Finally, the broken bits are seperated and hurled into the fire for a 25-cent Sam's Club bulk hotdog roast....

Hmm, it seems that all the HD600 fans are idiotic slack-jawed yoko's that need some sense slapped into them!

Really though Nick, what was it that made you change your mind about the W100's from your original impression of them?

As Tomcat previously posted, you once allegedly said,

"My ears slowly accepted the unique characteristics of the W100's. Listening closely to Bach's Allegro Brandenburg Concerto No.4 revealed the "polite", "musical" nature of the W100. Strings and voices were rendered with a highly appealing, intimate quality. Aside from their visual beauty, the exceptional rendering of midrange sounds is the W100's strongest asset."

Why do you hate them now? (I want details- why don't you like them?)

Oh well! You are right about one thing, though, this opinion stuff is fun indeed!

 

[Nick Dangerous]

That paragraph is about the only positive thing I've ever written about them. Did you read through the rest of the thread as well as the other one with Kelly? Here's why:

Everyone says the W100 has killer bass. Not in my experience. I drove it with the MG Head, Corda, Little, and McCormack... and...

Where's the bass?

Soundstage was a bit closed in.

Some instruments were thin.

Is this supposed to be "good"?

Compared to the HD600, the W100 lacked dynamic energy... EXCEPT for those moments when the midrange harmonized with a particular piece of polite, soft music. That is what I primarily focused that paragraph upon... that wonderful (and tiny) zone of midrange magic. It can be very good, but finding it is a bitch!

Reflecting back on the experience, it was frustrating to search for music that let the W100's sing. Over time, I'm getting less tolerant of 'one hit wonder' equipment.

 

[Jim R]

I vote for Senn HD-600 and a good tube amp. Don't worry about buying from Jan Meier - very trustworthy (many of us have used him and no negative comments anywhere here). If you want to spend the full $1000, get a Earmax Pro if you want to go cheaper get a MG Head OTL. For portable use build yourself a CMOY amp or buy one from one of the people here.

 

[kelly]

Try not to take this as too insulting, it's not meant to be.

The W2002 sounded excellent out of Sony and Panasonic portables. Hmm. Wait a minute. We all know (except Duncan) that portables don't sound good, don't we?

The W2002 and W100 both have a low impedance and are easily driven. The HD600 and other high end headphones may require a bit more power to sound good and in addition to that...

Coloration. I realize this is just my opinion but I really don't see how anyone could find the sound of the W100 and W2002 to be less colored than the HD600....

So my theory is this. On low end equipment (or rather, any equipment that produces sound you don't particularly care for), the W100 and W2002 potentially sound better than the HD600. They "cover up" some of the flaws and they bend at the right points in the frequency spectrum to exaggerate details and make them appear more detailed. Hey, it's not a bad way to go if you don't have the bucks for a good amplifier and you're forced to use a portable or some other source with a less than ideal DAC.

The HD600 on the other hand? Not completely transparent, no. I've gone off more than once on the HD600's flaws but the HD600 does seem to let you see what's behind them more than the W100 does. Sure, it doesn't quite have the resolution of the W2002 but the gap narrows a lot with a good source and a good amplifier. At this point, when you're doing an AB, the flaws of the W100 become more apparent as you're no longer distracted by the flaws the HD600 was revealing.

I know this can easily be taken the wrong way and that some of you have expensive gear. I don't mean to insult everything you own but consider the possibility that if the W100 sounds "more accurate" to you than the HD600, you might have *something* incompatible in the chain. Maybe the wrong tubes, maybe the wrong combination of cables, maybe a DAC that doesn't flesh out the details, maybe a transport that doesn't give up enough of its frequency extension. Just consider it.

 

[The Quality Guru]

A valid and very likely theory, Kelly.

Although the only problem with this theory is that the W100 holds onto its sonic strengths found w/ lower-end equipment (when compared to the HD600) even when it is put with high end components/ amps like the ZOTL and Earmax. It is more forgiving than the HD600, although it still benefits a lot from a movement upwards in the chain, though not nearly as much as the HD600 does.

IMO, I think it is mostly personal opinion that differentiates whether the HD600 or the W100 is the best. The midrange of the W100 has been said to be the same (if not better) than the HD600's when partnered with a very good amp (Earmax, ZOTL), although many people void the existence of this strength after realizing the abundance of colourations present there in the midrange as well. I agree that there is a lot of colouration, and it doesn't bother me, thus my great liking for the W100 and what it has to offer.

Also, I don't think that the W100 has yet been maxed out at its full potential. When this day comes, I think it could very well outdo the HD600 in sound, as long as you don't mind the colourations. **If you DO mind the colourations, the HD600 will very likely ALWAYS be the better headphone, and that is why I wonder if this is a battle worth fighting.***

 

[gaineso]

Major dilema. I find myself in general agreement with Nick D.

Except for tube amps. Go with the best solid state you can get, Meier or Headroom. Headroom does have the 30 day guarantee.

Quality Guru, you sound like you're trying to feed us some more Six Sigma BS. You are condeming the W100 with just about every sentence you write. Colouration (British spelling????) is not a nice thing to say about a piece of supposedly high end audio gear. Get over it and get the 600's.

 

[Blighty]

Quote:

Originally posted by gaineso Major dilema. I find myself in general agreement with Nick D. Quality Guru, you sound like you're trying to feed us some more Six Sigma BS. You are condeming the W100 with just about every sentence you write. Colouration (British spelling????) is not a nice thing to say about a piece of supposedly high end audio gear. Get over it and get the 600's.

Yeah, the Guru has a habit of ranting incoherently

Let's just say that the colouration that is noted in the W100 seems to work really well for quite a few types of music.

In regards to the spelling, everyone else in the world spells it that way except for Americans. Americans seem to have a different method of spelling many words. However, "condemn" or "condemning" and "dilemma" is written this way in the english language, no matter where you live.

 

[markl]

Well I think we all know where I stand on this subject

. Please see my avatar. Cheers.

markl

 

[phidauex]

Ha, markl is exposing himself! Write down his name, and try to find where he lives. He will be your ticket to good sound. With that budget of yours, you can buy some nice black clothes, good gloves, a ski mask, and some chloroform. Prepare to own the legendary R-10s.

Note: Don't listen to a word I say, I'm a savage lunatic. Listening to me may result in an unpleasant experience with your local law enforcement officials.

Peace,
phidauex

 

[The Quality Guru]

Quote:

Originally posted by Gaineso: Quality Guru, you sound like you're trying to feed us some more Six Sigma BS. You are condeming the W100 with just about every sentence you write. Colouration (British spelling????) is not a nice thing to say about a piece of supposedly high end audio gear. Get over it and get the 600's.

How can I be feeding you more Six Sigma B.S. if I'm allegedly condemning these 'phones? I'm not trying to sell you this product nor trying to convince you that it's the best headphone out there! I just think that its strengths (transparency, realism-IMO) come at the cost of colouration.

BTW, gaineso, I actually do really like the W100 (even if it looked like I was condemning it) and have no plans to really get the HD600 because of my immense enjoyment with the W100. I love the forward sound and great ability to reproduce string instruments, both of which are aspects that the HD600 can never obtain even if you pair it with some $3000+ headphone amp.

And yes, the W100 definitely falls short in some areas when compared to the HD600, but the W100 does have advantages over the HD600, too. So it depends. Which characteristics do you like most? Depending on which characteristics you like, then you will choose that 'phone which does the best job at expressing those characteristics. Hopefully you see what I'm trying to say here . . . So in the same sense, I chose the instruments and aspects of the frequency spectrum that the W100's did best, and the W100 had what I was looking for, hence the reason I got the W100 over the HD600.

Although, I do plan to go listen to it once again at the World of Headphones Tour (hopefully, at least) to see what all the hub-bub is about.

Quote:

Colouration (British spelling????)

Didn't know that people were so anal about spellings around here . . .

I just thought that spelling looked cooler, if you don't mind me saying it. And no, I'm not a British wannabe or anything, I don't spell many of my words the British way, I don't spell realize as realise . . or many other words with the the British spellings.

Quote:

Yeah, the Guru has a habit of ranting incoherently

Hmm! Blah to that.

I didn't know I was that bad.