[Alwayswantmore]

Got home from work about an hour ago and connected my newly delivered HD-650s / Blue Dragon to the 830 for the first time. Edit: I am withdrawing any comment until I get a few more hours listening / burn-in.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSloth ...the differences between single ended and balanced drive on an already very good amplifier to be in the last few %.

Sloth, have you been able to compare with the same amp / type of cable? I just did a quick A/B between stock (single ended) cable vs. Blue Dragon (balanced) on my new gear. For this quickie compare, the BD had MUCH tighter bass and was without a doubt more open.

BTW: The sound is promising, but I do hope it opens up more with burn-in. While it is easy to listen to, the highs seem a bit suppressed and the bass is constipated at the lowest frequencies. I also hope in time to realize more detail and air too.

Again, this is my first impression prior to break-in (for whatever in the hell that's worth

)

 

[TheSloth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore Sloth, have you been able to compare with the same amp / type of cable? I just did a quick A/B between stock (single ended) cable vs. Blue Dragon (balanced) on my new gear. For this quickie compare, the BD had MUCH tighter bass and was without a doubt more open.

Yes I have compared the same cable in single ended and balanced mode and I hardly found it night and day. Yes, I have a balanced system, and find it to be better than any single ended system I've owned, and so do hear a difference, but it's not of the order of magnitude that some people imagine it might be. You have just described the usual problem of comparisons in that the balanced setup usually also includes an upgraded cable that is largely responsible for the sound. What you have described is partly what I experienced as the difference between balanced and single ended drive, but it also describes the difference between the stock cable and the blue dragon very accurately.

 

[RnB180]

I still stand by my statement that music and audio can be enjoyed just as much single ended as balanced.

Both of them have their quirks. But IMO balanced drive is definately not the end all be all of headphone sound. It is nice however, but IMHO, balanced set ups is definately not something you want to skimp budget on, just to have the label of "balanced" in your profile. Its a direction I believe one would want to invest more money than less.

I think the best way of getting fully balanced sound is configuring a system from the ground up around the idea of balanced applications. Altering or modifying components never meant for balanced headphone applications may have different results from something that was designed for balanced headphone applications.

IMHO I wouldn't go balanced unless you are prepared to spend several thousands for the system. If its too much and you are on a budget, single ended systems are perfectly fine.

When you invest that much time and money into a balanced rig, going on a budget, you will most likely end upgrading all over again anyway.
Balanced drive was never meant to be a budget system. If you want the benefits of balanced applications, be prepared to spend a lot of money. Remember truly balanced systems are in elite territory and considered one of the upper most exteme of systems configurations, IMO it was never meant to be something for the tight budget.

 

[RnB180]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore Sloth, have you been able to compare with the same amp / type of cable? I just did a quick A/B between stock (single ended) cable vs. Blue Dragon (balanced) on my new gear. For this quickie compare, the BD had MUCH tighter bass and was without a doubt more open. BTW: The sound is promising, but I do hope it opens up more with burn-in. While it is easy to listen to, the highs seem a bit suppressed and the bass is constipated at the lowest frequencies. I also hope in time to realize more detail and air too. Again, this is my first impression prior to break-in (for whatever in the hell that's worth )

What are your thoughts about balancing the headphones from the wadia compared to a single ended amp?

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnB180 What are your thoughts about balancing the headphones from the wadia compared to a single ended amp?

To me it sounds excellent for the money. Keep in mind I'm new to headphones, so I lack your experience and perspective. I'm going to the Nashville meet on 4/1 where others with more experience can weigh in on the sound.

I've started a new thread to document my experiences with this configuration. Pictures too

 

[RnB180]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore To me it sounds excellent for the money. Keep in mind I'm new to headphones, so I lack your experience and perspective. I'm going to the Nashville meet on 4/1 where others with more experience can weigh in on the sound. I've started a new thread to document my experiences with this configuration. Pictures too

Fully balanced drive to me sounds so different. I hear everything. From the tiny "plick" of a guitar way down in the back of the room, the singers breathing, salivating, the foam on the mic, guitars sound waves bouncing off the walls of the recording room, all in an incredible absolutely inky black background.... Ill hear the every last bit over everything in the recording, even the little inconsistances in the recording. Its kind of strange to be exposed to such revealing sound its quite scarey, You hear everything with a clarity and soundstage thats just etched in virtual space, because of how clean and accurate it is.

would I like hearing the singers eye lids blink and lips moving over teeth during a recording? or that 1 person in the audience sitting in row 4 seat 5, thats clappin 20 times a minute during applause of a 200 people.
who knows. Its cool however

can a single ended amplifiers with a different more familiar sound be just as enjoyable? yes.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnB180 Fully balanced drive to me sounds so different. I hear everything. From the tiny "plick" of a guitar way down in the back of the room, the singers breathing, salivating, the foam on the mic, guitars sound waves bouncing off the walls of the recording room, all in an incredible absolutely inky black background.... Ill hear the every last bit over everything in the recording, even the little inconsistances in the recording. Its kind of strange to be exposed to such revealing sound its quite scarey.

Over the years I've heard several dozen high-end systems -– in the $20,000+ price range. Your words describe what I believe a good high-end system should do. The word that I've heard to describe this type of sound / feeling is "there". The more there the better.

What I hear from the Wadia / 650 / BDV2 has lots of there. But still falls short of my home rig. Having not heard other high-end headamps or cables, I don't know how this rig will stack up to other balanced offerings. [I should also note, with additional burn-in, SQ continues to improve...]

Prior to making the purchase, I had assumed that lacking a headamp the Wadia might be a bit hard or possibly too analytic. But I'm finding its actually smooth and possibly a little dark (a little attenuated at high frequencies?). While the sound makes even 70s rock listenable (a good thing), I would love to hear the Equinox or a silver cable to see how they compare to the BD. A little more sheen at the high-end might be an improvement???

 

[RnB180]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore Over the years I've heard several dozen high-end systems -– in the $20,000+ price range. Your words describe what I believe a good high-end system should do. The word that I've heard to describe this type of sound / feeling is "there". The more there the better. What I hear from the Wadia / 650 / BDV2 has lots of there. But still falls short of my home rig. Having not heard other high-end headamps or cables, I don't know how this rig will stack up to other balanced offerings. [I should also note, with additional burn-in, SQ continues to improve...] Prior to making the purchase, I had assumed that lacking a headamp the Wadia might be a bit hard or possibly too analytic. But I'm finding its actually smooth and possibly a little dark (a little attenuated at high frequencies?). While the sound makes even 70s rock listenable (a good thing), I would love to hear the Equinox or a silver cable to see how they compare to the BD. A little more sheen at the high-end might be an improvement???

Dont know what you mean by there, but from what I have heard on the balanced rig, I heard space. How does one hear space? I dont know, but I heard it. Its like you hear the involvement of others instruments playing and the space between them when they are playing at the same time. Its a trip

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnB180 Dont know what you mean by there, but from what I have heard on the balanced rig, I heard space. How does one hear space? I dont know, but I heard it. Its like you hear the involvement of others instruments playing and the space between them when they are playing at the same time. Its a trip

I have live recordings where you can actually "feel" the size of the concert hall based on the reverberation. Almost life a subtle wave of sound as the echo rolls through the room. I still hear this but to a lesser degree on the 650s.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnB180 How does one hear space?

Close your eyes in a quiet room and clap your hands together one time. Your brain will give you a mental picture of the room size. That to me is how you hear space. Some really good recordings capture this sence of room or space. Or as I stated earlier: There's more there.

 

[BrianS]

hmm i am considering just doing balanced from my lavry xlr out to headphones. the description of cleaner sound and soundstage is what i like. a balanced amp is out of the question unless its under 1000$ and the only one ive read is the m3. however, i will see once i get my ic's so i can try out my amp with the new dac.

 

[BrianS]

for those considering a balanced cable, both the silverdragon v2 and zu mobius #2 are not available yet

is a silver cable faster for music like trance or can a copper one be about the same?

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnB180 meets are really difficult to conduct critial listening sessions. You'll be in an unfamiliar environment, you wont be as relaxed an comfortable as you are at home, a lot of ambient noise and chatter. It should give you a small taste of what to expect however. bring some familiar cd's with you and give it a whirl in a balanced rig.

And make sure you make friends with the owner of any gear you find interesting so that maybe you can get a private listening session!

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianS for those considering a balanced cable, both the silverdragon v2 and zu mobius #2 are not available yet

I haven't heard the v#2 versions yet but so far I haven't heard a perfect balanced cable for the 650's. There were things I liked about both of these and both had strong points that the other could not match. I would give them both a listen with your music if it's at all possible.