Best app for WinXP desktop shell replacement & enhancement?

Jun 25, 2005 at 7:32 PM Post #16 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alu
Memory hoggers I say! Free your pc! Make it as light and fast as possible! And stop throwing stones!
icon10.gif



That's the whole point of Litestep... the goal was to design a shell that used less system resources than the standard Explorer shell. It's not an overlay of the Explorer shell, it completely replaces it. I didn't notice any gain in peformance, though to be honest, I wasn't really looking. But it certainly didn't slow things down like WindowBlinds did.
 
Jun 25, 2005 at 10:57 PM Post #17 of 37
I had Litestep for a long time, but recently switched over to BlackBox4Windows. BlackBox is a Linux window manager, now ported over to Windows. It's designed to be extremely minimalist. Very small memory footprint. It's themes seem to scale resolutions extremely well, as well. I run 1600x1200 on my Samsung 19" CRT, and it does fine. Here's my post in the 'Post your Desktop' thread, which shows it running nicely.
 
Jun 25, 2005 at 11:57 PM Post #18 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by Imyourzero
BTW, I should mention that the most important features to me are stability, functionality, and speed. I don’t care how good it looks if it is very resource-hungry and slows my system to a crawl.


Microsoft Dos or FreeDos could definitely be a way for you to go.

You could also load Emacs rather than explorer when Windows is started. It can be done with regedit. Convert to the Church of Emacs — Emacs is functional, stable (it’s nearing v22!) and won’t crawl you system resources!

-Rasmus
 
Jun 26, 2005 at 1:48 AM Post #19 of 37
i use a uxtheme.dll patcher so i can use any 3rd party visual styles. no programs run in the background, as you patch your OS .dll files directly. a good patcher is Neowin, which allows you to patch and unpatch your uxtheme.dll files as you see fit. latest version is 4.0 i believe and works with WindowsXP/SP1/SP2.
 
Jun 26, 2005 at 2:08 AM Post #20 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by pank2002
You could also load Emacs rather than explorer when Windows is started. It can be done with regedit. Convert to the Church of Emacs — Emacs is functional, stable (it’s nearing v22!) and won’t crawl you system resources!

-Rasmus



You could also load vi[m] rather than Emacs. Step into the light - vi is functional, stable, and won't bloat your system like others that will remain unnamed.

If you haven't noticed, vi vs. Emacs wars are a serious business. The reason for this, of course, is that Emacs users are somewhat addled and so defend their bloated beast much like people defend Office, even as it's eating their files along with their RAM.
 
Jun 26, 2005 at 5:07 AM Post #21 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonovich
I had Litestep for a long time, but recently switched over to BlackBox4Windows. BlackBox is a Linux window manager, now ported over to Windows. It's designed to be extremely minimalist. Very small memory footprint. It's themes seem to scale resolutions extremely well, as well. I run 1600x1200 on my Samsung 19" CRT, and it does fine.


I did the same thing. I ran Litestep for awhile then switched to bb4win (well bblean, mainly because it's like fluxbox). I also run it at 1600x1200 on a Samsung 19" CRT, the 900NF
smily_headphones1.gif


Oh and pank2002 or Stephonovich, do you only have to edit %USERPROFILE%\desktop in the registry to get Emacs or vi[m] working?
 
Jun 26, 2005 at 5:39 AM Post #22 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by grandenigma1
StyleXP is a good one


I installed StyleXP a couple of weeks ago. So far, so good. I don't notice any slow downs and haven't had any problems.
 
Jun 26, 2005 at 11:04 AM Post #23 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonovich
You could also load vi[m] rather than Emacs. Step into the light–vi is functional, stable, and won’t bloat your system like others that will remain unnamed.

If you haven’t noticed, vi vs. Emacs wars are a serious business. The reason for this, of course, is that Emacs users are somewhat addled and so defend their bloated beast much like people defend Office, even as it’s eating their files along with their RAM.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Thierry Bezecourt

VI is a roman number.

ED is a 2-note tune.

red is a color.

emacs is an editor.

You cannot edit a file with a roman number. You cannot edit a file
with a tune. You cannot edit a file with a color. Therefore, if you
want to edit a file, use emacs.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Matan Ninio
> VI VI VI–The Roman Number of The Beast


Need I say more
rolleyes.gif


Skipinder,
Don’t bother with VI. It would be a waste of time. Anyway the easiest way would be to get the precompiled exe file from emacsW32. I would grab v22 since it’s pretty stable, features nice icons
smily_headphones1.gif
and has graphic support, which means you can use cool stuff like Preview-LaTeX. It also has W32Feeling build-in, which means you can make emacs work as any other Windows program (i.e. alt+tab, ctrl+c, ctrl+v,)

AND FOR THE SACK OF St IGNUcius DON’T BELIEVE THE PROPAGANDA FROM STEPO! HE IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED! UNTRUSTWORTHY, I SAY!

Example of stupid, false and ignorant propaganda
Quote:

Originally Posted by From “The Vi Lovers Home Page”
Don’t get me wrong: Emacs is a great operating system—-it lacks a good editor, though.


biggrin.gif


gnu-head-sm.jpg

 
Jun 26, 2005 at 5:58 PM Post #25 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipinder
I did the same thing. I ran Litestep for awhile then switched to bb4win (well bblean, mainly because it's like fluxbox). I also run it at 1600x1200 on a Samsung 19" CRT, the 900NF
smily_headphones1.gif


Oh and pank2002 or Stephonovich, do you only have to edit %USERPROFILE%\desktop in the registry to get Emacs or vi[m] working?



Fluxbox-esque, eh? May have to try that. Although really, the only beef I had with BB4Win is that Windows-M no longer minimizes everything. It's probably customizeable somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it. Figured out how to change most everything else, though. Oh, I've got the 997DF. What's the difference between them, anyway? Dot pitch or something? All I know is it's a bloody nice monitor. Crisp, beautiful, and huge.

As for the registry, I don't think so, but don't quote me. I've never tried it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by “The Vi Lovers Home Page”
Don’t get me wrong: Emacs is a great operating system—-it lacks a good editor, though.


Any editor that can double as an OS has problems. An OS is an OS, an editor an editor, and a shell a shell. They should not be interchangeable. God gave us Linux, vim, and BASH for good reasons. Introducing Emacs into that mess just causes strife and discord, as it attempts to become all three - an unholy triumvirate, as it were.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pank2002
Anyway the easiest way would be to get the precompiled exe file from emacsW32. I would grab v22 since it’s pretty stable, features nice icons and has graphic support, which means you can use cool stuff like Preview-LaTeX.


1. Real Nerds [TM] compile their own software.
2. Icons? We don't need no stinking icons!
3. Graphics support in a text editor just doesn't make sense. You use image editors for images, word processors for fancy text, and text editors for system files that don't care about markup. Programs that attempt to do more than one generally fall short on all counts.
 
Jun 26, 2005 at 6:31 PM Post #26 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonovich
Any editor that can double as an OS has problems. An OS is an OS, an editor an editor, and a shell a shell. They should not be interchangeable. God gave us Linux, vim, and BASH for good reasons. Introducing Emacs into that mess just causes strife and discord, as it attempts to become all three–an unholy triumvirate, as it were.


Or it shows the potential of LISP and Emacs. You can do mostly anything with it — and usually somebody though of it before you did, and have already published a plugin. Emacs is so powerful that some people can do mostly everything from within Emacs.

Quote:

1. Real Nerds [TM] compile their own software.


Windows users don’t.
Quote:

2. Icons? We don’t need no stinking icons!


They do make it look nicer though, and like menus they make the interface easier for newcomers. Not a bad thing.
Quote:

3. Graphics support in a text editor just doesn’t make sense. You use image editors for images, word processors for fancy text, and text editors for system files that don’t care about markup. Programs that attempt to do more than one generally fall short on all counts.


Why not? It’s quite useful using Preview-LaTeX. Emacs also works as a email-client, and in that sense it’s quite a wanted feature.
Another example of the usefulness is iMaxima — run maxima from within Emacs (shortcuts and powerful interface) and have it outputted in LaTeX! Much better than standard Maxima.
On a side note, if you want to make fancy text you use (La)TeX rather than a word processor, and for that Emacs+AUCTeX is quite a powerful combo (which VIM-LaTeX tries to copy, btw), and if you’re doing complicated math too, Preview-LaTeX sure make it easier to get an overview.
 
Jun 26, 2005 at 6:48 PM Post #27 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by pank2002
Or it shows the potential of LISP and Emacs. You can do mostly anything with it — and usually somebody though of it before you did, and have already published a plugin. Emacs is so powerful that some people can do mostly everything from within Emacs.


But text editors were not designed to do all that - that's my entire point. If you want a beast that does everything, sure, go ahead. I prefer to have applications do what they were designed to do. I don't use WMP because it's too big for what little use I make of it. FB2K and MPC (or XMMS and Xine) suit me just fine.

Quote:

Windows users don’t.


Admittedly. That point was a jest on my part, hence the 'Real Nerds' bit.

Quote:

They do make it look nicer though, and like menus they make the interface easier for newcomers. Not a bad thing.


The newbies can suck it up and like it, IMO
biggrin.gif
My first serious exposure to Linux was Gentoo. Better to jump in and say "Here you go, now steer" than coddle them. Besides, if it's a text editor, what on earth does it need a GUI for? What happens when you need to edit a file in Terminal or on a system that doesn't have X installed? That's right - you use vi, because it's on practically every system by default. (or pico/nano if you're scared, I suppose - it's actually fairly intuitive for a CLI editor)

Quote:

Why not? It’s quite useful using Preview-LaTeX. Emacs also works as a email-client, and in that sense it’s quite a wanted feature.
Another example of the usefulness is iMaxima — run maxima from within Emacs (shortcuts and powerful interface) and have it outputted in LaTeX! Much better than standard Maxima.


Yet another example of code bloat. My point still stands - if you want an all-in-one beast, go right ahead. I see no reason why a text editor should double as an email client.

Quote:

On a side note, if you want to make fancy text you use (La)TeX rather than a word processor, and for that Emacs+AUCTeX is quite a powerful combo (which VIM-LaTeX tries to copy, btw), and if you’re doing complicated math too, Preview-LaTeX sure make it easier to get an overview.


Define 'fancy text.' I meant it as formatting and the like, i.e. for a letter. Personally, I don't feel like writing my letters with:

Code:

Code:
[left]\title{Re: Blah} \author{Stephan Garland} \date{\26 June 2005} \begin{document}[/left]

LaTeX is indeed quite powerful, but it's not very conveinent for writing a letter. I meant more like OpenOffice, AbiWord, and the like.
 
Jun 26, 2005 at 7:55 PM Post #28 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonovich
But text editors were not designed to do all that–that’s my entire point. If you want a beast that does everything, sure, go ahead. I prefer to have applications do what they were designed to do. I don’t use WMP because it’s too big for what little use I make of it. FB2K and MPC (or XMMS and Xine) suit me just fine.


Remember though that it’s is mostly user written scripts! There obviously has been a demand for it. My point is, you wouldn’t be able to do it in a lesser editor. Furthermore the stock version of Emacs is basically an editor. There is installed mail and news program by default, I think.
Emacs isn’t just an editor, the conclusion must be, I think
biggrin.gif

Quote:

The newbies can suck it up and like it, IMO
biggrin.gif


Well, I’m not sure we will reach agreement on that one. People are differant.

Quote:

Besides, if it’s a text editor, what on earth does it need a GUI for?


To make it easier for users of course! The included ref card is 6 pages! Nobody can remember that therefor menus are necessary. If I were to create a html file in Emacs I wouldn’t know any of the shortcuts and therefor I would need a GUI.

Quote:

What happens when you need to edit a file in Terminal or on a system that doesn’t have X installed? That’s right–you use vi, because it’s on practically every system by default.


If you by ‘practically every system’ means those 10% (at the most) which run Linux then yes, maybe you are right. On the other hand, how often does that happen? Normally you’d use your own computer for text editing and you’d have your favorite program installed, so it is quite a theoretical scenario.
Quote:

Yet another example of code bloat. My point still stands–if you want an all-in-one beast, go right ahead. I see no reason why a text editor should double as an email client.


\[\bar nˆ*_j(s)=\frac{\left\{s\sum_{i=1}ˆk
n_i(0)pˆ*{i,k+1}(s)+Mˆ*(s)\right\}\sum_{i=1}ˆk
p_{0i}pˆ*{ij}(s)}{1-s\sum_{i=1}ˆkp_{0i}pˆ*_{i,
k+1}(s)}+\sum_{i=1}ˆkn_i(0)pˆ*_{ij}(s)[j=
1,2,\dots,k].\]

That’s real useful, aint it. You can easily tell what it is...


Quote:

Define ‘fancy text.’ I meant it as formatting and the like, i.e. for a letter. Personally, I don’t feel like writing my letters with:

Code:

Code:
[left]\title{Re: Blah} \author{Stephan Garland} \date{\26 June 2005} \begin{document}[/left]

LaTeX is indeed quite powerful, but it’s not very conveinent for writing a letter. I meant more like OpenOffice, AbiWord, and the like.


I didn’t know there was a code environment on Head-Fi
smily_headphones1.gif

Well, each is his own. I’d say it would be faster to write it in LaTeX than having to fix style and alignment etc. Also, with packages such as KOMA-Script you can quite easy create a quite fancy heading and send the same letter out to a number of people etc.
What I like about LaTeX is
a) it use nicer fonts.
b) the typography will be uniform throughout the document (it won’t necessary be if you use OO.o or MS’s even if you use the build-in style options).
c) I don’t have to use the mouse. That is particularly useful when typing math.
 
Jun 26, 2005 at 8:18 PM Post #29 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonovich
the only beef I had with BB4Win is that Windows-M no longer minimizes everything. It's probably customizeable somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it.


Try editing the bbkeys.rc file
smily_headphones1.gif


Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonovich
Oh, I've got the 997DF. What's the difference between them, anyway? Dot pitch or something? All I know is it's a bloody nice monitor. Crisp, beautiful, and huge.


Yeah, 997DF has a dot pitch of .2mm, 900NF has 0.24mm, and I'm sure they
have some refresh rate differences. But, yeah they are both great monitors, mine's just older.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pank2002
Anyway the easiest way would be to get the precompiled exe file from emacsW32.


Cool, thanks for the link, it even has info on how to do this manually, which IMO is better than getter precompiled versions.

I'm not getting into this whole vi vs Emacs argument, instead I'll just refer to here.
 
Jun 27, 2005 at 5:16 PM Post #30 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by pank2002
Remember though that it’s is mostly user written scripts! There obviously has been a demand for it.


There's also Civil War slash fiction. Existence != necessity || quality. (referenced from SomethingAwful, in case anyone is wondering - no, I don't swing like that)

Quote:

Emacs isn’t just an editor, the conclusion must be, I think
biggrin.gif


Agreed. And as you'll see farther down, I'm gradually lessening my fight against it.

Quote:

To make it easier for users of course! The included ref card is 6 pages! Nobody can remember that therefor menus are necessary. If I were to create a html file in Emacs I wouldn’t know any of the shortcuts and therefor I would need a GUI.


The manual for my TI-86 is over 400 pages. It has little to nothing in the way of onboard help, leaving you only with cryptic menus and functions. Yet I manage to remember it.

Quote:

If you by ‘practically every system’ means those 10% (at the most) which run Linux then yes, maybe you are right. On the other hand, how often does that happen? Normally you’d use your own computer for text editing and you’d have your favorite program installed, so it is quite a theoretical scenario.


Yes, my bad, I meant *nix systems. As for how often it happens; try installing any non-mainstream distro (i.e. Slackware, Gentoo, Debian, *insert favorite here*), that doesn't ship with pretty GUI configuration tools. In the case of Gentoo, you have to write the files yourself, and all you have available to you is a text editor. Nano by default, others on demand. Or for another example, take any Linux class at a college. You'll be using text editors so much, if you didn't know them when you started, you soon will.

Code:

Code:
[left]\[\bar nˆ*_j(s)=\frac{\left\{s\sum_{i=1}ˆk n_i(0)pˆ*{i,k+1}(s)+Mˆ*(s)\right\}\sum_{i=1}ˆk p_{0i}pˆ*{ij}(s)}{1-s\sum_{i=1}ˆkp_{0i}pˆ*_{i, k+1}(s)}+\sum_{i=1}ˆkn_i(0)pˆ*_{ij}(s)[j= 1,2,\dots,k].\][/left]

What?

Quote:

a) it use nicer fonts.
b) the typography will be uniform throughout the document (it won’t necessary be if you use OO.o or MS’s even if you use the build-in style options).
c) I don’t have to use the mouse. That is particularly useful when typing math.


The tiny difference in quality I'll get with anti-aliased (I assume that's how LaTeX pretties things up, much like PDFs) fonts is minimal. I've never had someone complain that a printed document I gave them looked fuzzy. As for the others, to each his own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipinder
Try editing the bbkeys.rc file


For some reason, BB4Win doesn't allow MinimizeAll to be called. I tried BBLean, but found it conflicted with Windows styles. I suppose it's just a more complete shell. BB4Win co-exists with already present styles, and I happen to very much like the Milk Redux theme. Ah well. I'll just use Windows-N, which minimizes a single window. Oddly enough, that works.

Quote:

I'm not getting into this whole vi vs Emacs argument, instead I'll just refer to here.


Excellent, excellent page. I like his way of thinking. He sees both as having advantages and disadvantages, which I do agree to.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top