[whitemass]

I've been a huge Android use for over the past eight years, and generally I go with.
- PlayerPro Premuim
- Any headphone available, I test a lot of headphones.
- Generally using the PlayerPro EQ
 
I've never found, or delved into the world of EQ'ing my buds, & cans.
But I'm a Warm Sound Chaser. I have a few Cold Chasing Cans that I use when they're available.
I can't ever get a good EQ going in PlayerPro, or find a proper sound with the selection of tuning options.
 
Does anyone know of any good Players, and Equalization Apps for getting that nice warm sound?

 

[billybob_jcv]

Why not buy headphones that actually sound good to you instead of trying to EQ?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Does anyone know of any good Players, and Equalization Apps for getting that nice warm sound?

 

Technically speaking you should use the EQ to smooth out the response (even if not necessarily ruler flat, if that's even possible), so why not just get a headphone that sound good from the start that your phone can drive to a loud enough level without distortion, and then just apply the EQ for extra polish? Have you tried the Focal Spirit One and Sony MDR-1R?

 

As for the best EQ app, that would be Neutron Music Player, which includes a host of other processing features. It has a 4-band parametric EQ with almost infinite center freq choices on each band (instead of, say, five preset choices, you can choose virtually any frequency), plus custom Q-factor. However this is for smoothening out the response, and with all those variable settings it's really for a more precise EQ work - like if you have a peak and a dip too close to each other(in which case you'd need a narrow Q-factor). At best what this will do for you is allow you to set a wideband-EQ setting to bring up the lower half of the midrange and the upper bass, however if your headphones are warm enough to start with then you won't need to do that with an EQ and instead you can smooth out peaks. For example you have a headphone that has a strong response from around 100hz to 800hz, relatively smooth past that then has a spike somewhere between 4khz and 10khz. With Neutron's EQ you can more easily target that peak, or peaks, given the variable center freq and Q-factor. Note that I emphasize cutting since boosting more easily results in distortion, since you're making the drivers produce more of a frequency that it is naturally weak at.

 

[cel4145]

Neutron music player for Android has parametric EQ which is very powerful for fine tuning headphone frequency response. You'll have to learn how to use PEQ (google for tutorials). It's more complicated than graphical EQs with sliders.

 

[whitemass]

Why not buy headphones that actually sound good to you instead of trying to EQ?

Well, first off. 
I'm gonna harass you with a comment that most people hate hearing.
 
I'm an Audio Geek, not someone who buys JUST headphones that sound good to me. That said, your comment is now shaking in its boots.
 
Secondly!
EQ is quite fun, useful, helpful, & useful!

 
Sure, I could claim to be that guy who says; "I'm more of an audiophile than you, and half your arguments are invalid!", but I'm not.
 
So, why do I like Tube Amps, EQ, Cables that affect sound, different tubes, different apps, messing with my audio, and trying to experiment with things.
Because I like to! And I want to! And that's who I am!
I'm just not YOU.
You may like to appreciate a headphone for what it was meant to sound like, or the aperture ambient sound. 
I do sometimes, but I don't have to keep it standard.
That's why we have so many different things, and opinions in the Audio World.
 
All I can ask, simply help me, or don't.
Don't ask why I don't buy a stock headphone I like, and listen to it the way it sounds stock.
We all have different preference.
 
 
This wasn't meant to be rude, so don't take it that way!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
I'm an Audio Geek, not someone who buys JUST headphones that sound good to me. That said, your comment is now shaking in its boots.

 

A "tweaker" would be more appropriate term for that I think.

 

Still, even in car audio where the car can EQ the speakers even before you actually install them properly, apply EQ, time alignment, gain adjustments, and different crossover settings, and tweaking is a necessary component of ownership, the thing is you should get just get the speakers that you like first and then just smooth out the response because...
 

 
Secondly!
EQ is quite fun, useful, helpful, & useful!

 
Sure, I could claim to be that guy who says; "I'm more of an audiophile than you, and half your arguments are invalid!", but I'm not.

 

...EQ can actually cause distortion, not simply in that it alters the signal as hardcore speaker audiophiles with home set-ups will argue - which is not absolutely the case here on Head-Fi due to the prevalence of computers or other similar devices as sources/servers, ergo apps that can do DSP functions with a computer processor instead of an expensive DSP chip-based hardware processor - but because boosting frequencies inherently forces a transducer to produce frequencies it naturally isn't good at. Basically, you can't get a headphone that lacks bass, then expect it to have clean bass after applying a +10dB, Q-factor 0.75 boost at 50hz.

 

Going back to car audio, when I installed a receiver with a really nice built-in DSP, after applying time correction (delaying the driver's side tweeter and midwoofer to syncrhonize the arrival of the soundwaves with the sound from the passenger side of the car, then all these delayed to synchronize with the subwoofer), I got to hear what my Focal 165VR midwoofers and Vifa BC25TG (yes, they're home audio tweeters) actually sound like together, and I didn't need EQ anymore. Even an RTA didn't measure any problematic peaks.

 

When I bought my Aurisonics ASG-1 two years ago I actually thought the bass was too strong, but the midrange was clean enough. What was important though was the comfortable fit and that my phone had no trouble getting it loud enough without distortion (aside from th boomy bass anyway). What I do is just apply a wideband EQ cut - Q1.00, -2dB, 100hz - just  to smooth out the bass response.
 
 
 

 
So, why do I like Tube Amps, EQ, Cables that affect sound, different tubes, different apps, messing with my audio, and trying to experiment with things.
 

 
Well the basic idea is that they're called amplifiers because they amplify the input signal, instead of being called "warmifying signal modifiers" because they add warmth.
 
 

 
Because I like to! And I want to! And that's who I am!
I'm just not YOU.
You may like to appreciate a headphone for what it was meant to sound like, or the aperture ambient sound. 
I do sometimes, but I don't have to keep it standard.
That's why we have so many different things, and opinions in the Audio World.
 
All I can ask, simply help me, or don't.
Don't ask why I don't buy a stock headphone I like, and listen to it the way it sounds stock.
We all have different preference.

 

Look, no one's saying never use EQ; we're just saying you shouldn't totally rely on it as much because of the reasons outlined above. Also, if you're going to rely considerably on EQ, might as well get the methodology right - I used an RTA in my car before so I can see the baseline response instead of trying out settings at random. My new processor has its own Audyssey EQ tech where I just mount the Audyssey microphone where my head would normally be, play test tracks, and then the ///////ALPINE processor will automatically apply a 500-point EQ correction, so technically I wouldn't really need to agonize between DLS or Focal since Alpine will correct the response based on their reference system (as for the response, AFAIK it wasn't a car cabin. With headphones, you'll need at minimum a very quiet room with a mic between the headphones, but to be more accurate, some use dummy heads to house the microphone and the headphone sits more like how they do on an actual human head. 

 

In any case if that's what you want to do then you should switch over to Apple instead of Android. There's an app called Accudio, which has an archive of the baseline response graph of many headphones so you won't have to spend any money making one using a mannequin head with a mic inside it, plus an EQ profile for each headphone to make them sound more neutral. On top of that it also has an archive of the EQ profiles to make any headphone sound like any other headphone out there. Try it first with the Apple earbuds, since you can get the sound of an LCD-2 using the built-in EQ profile. I mean, sure, you won't get all the other aspects that makes an LCD-2 what it is - like the toe-in angle of the drivers outside your ears vs an earphone in the ear canal, or the physics of a planar driver vs a dynamic driver - but you might find it fun that you can "have" the sound of a $1,200 headphone practically free 

 

Past that then you can maybe get whatever feels comfortable on your head or in ears and then apply the same correction profile. Done!

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/644688/the-accudio-app-by-golden-ears-a-headphone-revolution

 

[lctong]

It seems like he already has buds and cans, so not sure why people are grilling him about getting other ones (plus it hurts the wallet more)... another vote for Neutron if you're sticking with Android.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  It seems like he already has buds and cans, so not sure why people are grilling him about getting other ones (plus it hurts the wallet more)... another vote for Neutron if you're sticking with Android.

 

They're saying sell all of the ones he's not happy with and then just keep the ones that are easiest to EQ into neutral or whatever sound he likes (so if he doesn't actually buy anything else he actually makes money; if he does, well, depending on what he sells and buys he can end up spending only a little bit more).

 

[Fadem]

I'm just going to chip in and vote for PowerAmp.

 

[whitemass]

  I'm just going to chip in and vote for PowerAmp.

Haha, I can't stand those guys.
I helped them finish up a Dev Model of a tool you may see sooner in the future.
They're pusy, and love too much Articulate Bass, I've never had the chance to get the full apk, but I'd try it if you minded sharing. 

   

They're saying sell all of the ones he's not happy with and then just keep the ones that are easiest to EQ into neutral or whatever sound he likes (so if he doesn't actually buy anything else he actually makes money; if he does, well, depending on what he sells and buys he can end up spending only a little bit more).

I think the thing people are making assumption on the most is that I really like to tinker around with what a driver can do.
 
People who read this see it as if I don't like the Stock Sound. Not the case, example? My M50, I love Bass in them that you can tune out the kinks with. They're constantly called Muddy, and I'll agree. But I can't seem to find good EQ for fixing this!
 

Neutron music player for Android has parametric EQ which is very powerful for fine tuning headphone frequency response. You'll have to learn how to use PEQ (google for tutorials). It's more complicated than graphical EQs with sliders.

Great rec, after looking into this, and watching some videos, I'm somewhat informed on what's going on.
I'm still slightly confused, but similar to what I was looking for.

 

  It seems like he already has buds and cans, so not sure why people are grilling him about getting other ones (plus it hurts the wallet more)... another vote for Neutron if you're sticking with Android.

Thanks again, I'm actually a well known XDA Member, and we don't often see a ton of Neutron lovers speak out, unless it's a thread for recommending, or appreciation.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
People who read this see it as if I don't like the Stock Sound. Not the case...

 

If for example the goal is to basically make each headphone more neutral then EQ is always necessary since, like I already posted, there is no perfectly flat response transducer. What everyone is saying is to not use EQ to try to completely overhaul the SQ of a headphone, one of the primary reasons being the possibility of distortion when you have to boost frequencies or creating a valley instead of smoothening out the frequencies because when cutting them because it's an EQ with a center frequency and Q-Factor, not a filter that can for example flat out change a "cold chasing" transducer or combinations of them into a "warm chaser" by filtering all frequencies above a given low pass frequency. For example if you use EQ to cut at 8khz, you'd need a wide Q-factor to affect 4khz to 16khz, and even then affect them all equally; if it's a graphic EQ, then you won't know if the Q-factor is wide enough for each center freq to go all the way and meet where the other center freq stops working, so you might end up with three dips and five spikes, making it all the more problematic. This is why I suggested using NeutronMP if you want to tweak manually given the variables you can do with its EQ settings, or use Accudio and make an HD800 out of stock earbuds (go back to what I posted previously for details on these).
 

This level of tweaking is a lot easier in cars, which is why I also used the example previously. In the one above, a "cold chasing" system can be turned warm if you have a full active system with separate amplification channels, although it isn't really transforming it in that sense but correcting gain issues. In my car for example I have the Focal 165VR midwoofers in the doors and Vifa BC25TG tweeters on the A-pillars, the DSP splits the frequencies at the digital level prior to D/A conversion (instead of a passive crosover circuit after the amplifier, as on multi-driver IEMs). Whether I use this or any "custom" driver combo (in which case you can't really call them "warm chasing" or "cold chasing" since there is no "stock sound" to speak of when combined, it's all up to the tuning) or I use tweets and mids from the same set (regardless of whether it's a "warm chasing" or "cold chasing" kind of component system), the problem here will be that I have a 15watt, 95dB/1watt sensitivity tweeter (or thereabouts) paired to a 70watt, 86dB/1watt midwooder. However, since I am not using passive crossover and the tweets and mids are on separate amplification channels (my four channel amp has 2x75watt channels then 2x150watt channels), then I just kept the gain on the tweeter amp channels at 0 while I have midwoofer gain at roughly +12dB. Once you factor in the crossover settings where they are integrated to "catch" or "meet" each other without creating peaks, it's already a "warm chasing" combination with the highs rolled off by the filter - or, actually, the relative gain setting. Any peaks after that (actually, my ears couldn't hear any, but an RTA found a few tiny peaks) I corrected where I could with EQ. 

 

In any case, again, there's NeutronMP if you want manual four band parametric control; and then there's Accuio on iOS if you switch which has preprogrammed EQ profiles with even more tweaks than what you can manually input on a simpler interface (kind of like the 500band auto-EQ Audyssey DSP on Alpine processors, vs the 5band parametric for manual tweaking) so you can turn a "cold chasing" Apple earbud into a "warm chasing" HD650 with a push of a button.

 

Quote:

 
...example? My M50, I love Bass in them that you can tune out the kinks with. They're constantly called Muddy, and I'll agree. But I can't seem to find good EQ for fixing this!

 
The thing is muddy bass among other things begin with the transducers freq response. If the lowest bass frequencies are too loud, even if only relative to the upper bass, then it will sound muddy because the bass notes that should have been fading out make the decay too loud, and the harder kick from the upper bass may even be obscured. Conversely, if you try to transform a "cold chasing" can by boosting bass where i barely has any the transducer will distort more easily, more so if the amp runs out of steam to drive it. In any case, here's the graph of the M50:
 

 
Correction EQ:
 
Band 1
Center Frequency - 40hz
Q-factor - 1.00 or 0.75
Cut - -5dB
 
Band 2
Center Frequency - 120hz
Q-factor - 1.75 to 2.0
Cut - -2dB o -3dB

 

[mafiebig]

Hi, 
 
My 2 cents is:
 
Neutron Player. But scrap the Android platform and use it on a cheap used Blackberry Playbook 64GB. I believe the Playbook was Neutron player's base coding hardware muse by the designers.  The Playbook also runs on a Wolfson WM8994E DAC and can be found on KIJIJI for less then $100 bucks CND now.  I am now on limited disposable funds to spend on headphones and players due to settling down. So I have fun testing what I currently have in players and headsets in my collection, some good, others more mainstream but old in current availability to what is new now. 
 
Using MP3s files at 320KBPS
 
I have compared the following players I own or had owned for some time to this Playbook's setup: 
 
SONY Walkman NWZ A864 8GB
Zune Player,
IPOD Touch 32G 3G,
Ipod Classic 5.5 gen 30GB
SanDisk Sansa Fuze
 
Android Devices:
Asus Transformer 101 (I think this has a decent DAC too if I am not mistaken)
Asus  Transformer 701 
China phone: UMI ZERO
Samsung Galexy S2 SGH-I727R model
 
IEMS and headsets I own: 
 
UE Triple Fi 10's
UE Superfi 5 Pro
Monster Turbines
Sound Magic PL50
SONY XBA-3
 
Headsets CANs:
 
UE 6000
BOSE OE first gen.
 
The best player I have used was the Blackberry Playbook with Neutron Player app. Takes some time to learn the options this app can do. Stated by many others on the net. The Playbook is very impressive with BA IEMs. The UE SUPERFI 5 PRO and UE Triple Fi 10's sound very full bodied and detailed with a warmer sound signature. Another Neutron reviewer compared the sound to a Harmon Kardon house sound signature.
 
None of the other players above listed could hold a candle to the PB's sound quality IMHO. It is also able to play FLAC and other HD file formats without an issue.
 
I would like someone to take a moment and compare the higher end players from Sony, Cowon, Filo and others to the PB with neutron player app using some high end IEMs and share there finding with us. 
 
Anyways I am going to stop as I am starting to ramble here. 
 
Regards,
 
mafiebig

 

[fgpr]

Hi,

My 2 cents is:

Neutron Player. But scrap the Android platform and use it on a cheap used Blackberry Playbook 64GB. I believe the Playbook was Neutron player's base coding hardware muse by the designers. The Playbook also runs on a Wolfson WM8994E DAC and can be found on KIJIJI for less then $100 bucks CND now. I am now on limited disposable funds to spend on headphones and players due to settling down. So I have fun testing what I currently have in players and headsets in my collection, some good, others more mainstream but old in current availability to what is new now.

Using MP3s files at 320KBPS

I have compared the following players I own or had owned for some time to this Playbook's setup:

SONY Walkman NWZ A864 8GB
Zune Player,
IPOD Touch 32G 3G,
Ipod Classic 5.5 gen 30GB
SanDisk Sansa Fuze

Android Devices:
Asus Transformer 101 (I think this has a decent DAC too if I am not mistaken)
Asus Transformer 701
China phone: UMI ZERO
Samsung Galexy S2 SGH-I727R model

IEMS and headsets I own:

UE Triple Fi 10's
UE Superfi 5 Pro
Monster Turbines
Sound Magic PL50
SONY XBA-3

Headsets CANs:

UE 6000
BOSE OE first gen.

The best player I have used was the Blackberry Playbook with Neutron Player app. Takes some time to learn the options this app can do. Stated by many others on the net. The Playbook is very impressive with BA IEMs. The UE SUPERFI 5 PRO and UE Triple Fi 10's sound very full bodied and detailed with a warmer sound signature. Another Neutron reviewer compared the sound to a Harmon Kardon house sound signature.

None of the other players above listed could hold a candle to the PB's sound quality IMHO. It is also able to play FLAC and other HD file formats without an issue.

I would like someone to take a moment and compare the higher end players from Sony, Cowon, Filo and others to the PB with neutron player app using some high end IEMs and share there finding with us.

Anyways I am going to stop as I am starting to ramble here.

Regards,

mafiebig

Curious about this
Owning an LG G6 with quad DAC, I wonder if buying playbook would still benefit me audio-wise
headphone used without amp, bowers p5

 

[bixby]

I am not going to get into the EQ debate, but I have tried a few within some Android players in the past. Those were not so transparent, but I digress.

Players you ask! I have tried a few on Android over the years. I did latch on to Onkyo HF Player (free version) and really like it and its eq is fairly benign. A bit warm but very capable and balanced sounding player to my ears.

but then came Foobar 2000 for Android. A step up in midrange and lower treble clarity and tighter midbass. I like the sound of Foobar 2000 here as much as on my Windows home setups. I especially like the optional simple white background which is great on a phone in the sun!

Both of these are highly recommended!

good Luck!