[Liu Junyuan]

Well, the internal dac is slightly brighter and there seems to be more clarity because of this.
The Pavane is seriously not more resolving and is a tad more analog sounding but as said I am certain I couldn‘t distinguish them in a Blind Test.

Fair enough.

What does the HDV820 do for the HD800S? Why is the pairing so perfect?

 

[silversurfer616]

As mentioned before there obviously went a lot of research and actual listening( not just measurements) into this and it is the best I have heard the 800S.
The spatial cues actually translate into an amazing holographic soundstage with insane layering in terms of depth/ height and width.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

As mentioned before there obviously went a lot of research and actual listening( not just measurements) into this and it is the best I have heard the 800S.
The spatial cues actually translate into an amazing holographic soundstage with insane layering in terms of depth/ height and width.

I wouldn't doubt research went into it. Most likely both measurements and listening went into it--a good thing.

Glad to hear you are liking it!

 

[iDesign]

To each their own, I like it much better with the DAC upgraded. Without the DAC upgrade it is still good enough.

Sennheiser worked hard on the implementation and tuning of the DAC and the result is excellent. You may find that an outboard DAC changes the sound to suit your individual preferences but it may not be better in the technical sense. In my experience, using outboard DACs like the Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 and Chord Hugo 2, collapsed the HDV820’s sense of height, width, and depth of sound. I also feel the combined cost of using an expensive outboard DAC completely misses the point and appeal of the HDV820 because it should be an affordable solution for owners who want to take the guesswork out of building a system.

 

[ekfc63]

ALO Studio Six

 

[Liu Junyuan]

Sennheiser worked hard on the implementation and tuning of the DAC and the result is excellent. You may find that an outboard DAC changes the sound to suit your individual preferences but it may not be better in the technical sense. In my experience, using outboard DACs like the Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 and Chord Hugo 2, collapsed the HDV820’s sense of height, width, and depth of sound. I also feel the combined cost of using an expensive outboard DAC completely misses the point and appeal of the HDV820 because it should be an affordable solution for owners who want to take the guesswork out of building a system.

To me, at least on paper, the Sabre chip they use makes a lot of sense to mate with the HD800S in particular, after having finally gotten it in my system. That isn't even taking account of the meticulous implementation that went into making the chip blossom. Chips are nothing without proper implementation, and Sennheiser doesn't lack in this department. It is also a matter of how they thought about the amp pairing with the DAC. It sounds like the amp's tuning, topology, and design was conceived as inseperable from the DAC's implementation to achieve that type of sound. Yes, modularity is an option, but it then does away with its strengths.

In the DAC department, something like a Matrix X-Sabre Pro or a Benchmark DAC 3 could possibly exceed that of the internal DAC (both use TOTL Sabre chips as well), but why bother?

Honestly, an all in one solution is attractive to me. However, does this only apply to one headphone, the HD800S? If so, I'm not interested, although I respect people choosing one phone and maximizing its performance.

 

[iDesign]

To me, at least on paper, the Sabre chip they use makes a lot of sense to mate with the HD800S in particular, after having finally gotten it in my system. That isn't even taking account of the meticulous implementation that went into making the chip blossom. Chips are nothing without proper implementation, and Sennheiser doesn't lack in this department. It is also a matter of how they thought about the amp pairing with the DAC. It sounds like the amp's tuning, topology, and design was conceived as inseperable from the DAC's implementation to achieve that type of sound. Yes, modularity is an option, but it then does away with its strengths.

In the DAC department, something like a Matrix X-Sabre Pro or a Benchmark DAC 3 could possibly exceed that of the internal DAC (both use TOTL Sabre chips as well), but why bother?

Exactly.

Honestly, an all in one solution is attractive to me. However, does this only apply to one headphone, the HD800S? If so, I'm not interested, although I respect people choosing one phone and maximizing its performance.

The HDV820 is purpose built for the HD800S and HD820 headphones, and therefore, it has specific tuning and an unusual output impedance of 43Ω. Although it could work well with other headphones, I wouldn’t embark on that path.

 

[-HaVoC-Tzu-]

The HDV820 is not a very fast amp, so it does not pair well with fast headphones like the Utopia for example. Chord Hugo 2 is better for that which has a very fast amp, but the amp of the HDV 820 is better than the Hugo 2 for HD 800 series headphones. I think the slowing down of some of the lower frequencies is what causes it to sound spacious.. just a guess I have not looked at any charts, just listening to the differences I hear (which is more noticeable when using Utopias).
HDV 820 does pair with with my Fostex headphones though, and everything else will at least sound pretty good with it. You will not get the most out of Utopias on a HDV 820.

To me the HD 800 is the most important headphone that I own , ( I prefer it over the HD 800S and HD820 in most cases) and the HDV 820 is a necessity with that headphone IMO.

 

[SilverEars]

Today, I'm listening to the HD800S out of the Eddie Current Zana Deux Super, and I've never heard bass like out of ZDS OTL! In my experience, Sennys shine out of good tube amps (but there are rare gem solid-states like the Bryston BHA-1 for Sennys), and if anybody wants bass out of the HD800S, EC ZDS is it. It's crazy how an amp can bring out such level of bass qualities out of a headphone. It's the best I've heard of the HD800S.

ZDS is not a usual tube amp. It's fast, sharp, tactile, tight. It's great match for the HD800S. In my experience delta sigma work best with solid-state, but imaging can be a bit flat compared to good multi-bits. My issue with solid-state neutrality is that, it can bring out the treble ugliness of the HD800 or S.

I think a lot of tube amps will not have the same qualities as Eddie Current tube amps. Bass can be looser, less quantity, and in general, not a tight response. Not as dynamic either. Eddie Current amps are tubes amp with technicalities.

 

[exdmd]

I haven't heard the ZDS or HDV820 but the Kenzie 1626 tube amp works quite well with my HD800S, better than any solid state amp I have tried from Schiit. I enjoy very holographic staging and bass response is accurate for me using an RCA 12SL7GT grey glass input tube. I think you will find many owners of HD800 and HD800S prefer tube amps. If I was in the market for a $2000 amp for the HD800S I would also take a long hard look at the new DNA Starlett. Once Schiit has the Jotunheim R in production I plan to move up from HD800S to Raal SR1a.

 

[SilverEars]

After trying out another DAC, I just realized it's the Yggdrasil that's really causing such bass out of ZDS. And I thought out of Gumby was pretty significant. Yggy's bass characteristic can differ depending on the amp, but I didn't expect the character out of ZDS to be so tight and slamming with the tracks that really put out fast slamming bass.

With those tracks that has resonance bass effects, it's enhanced out of this setup. If you've heard Fostex bass, you know what I'm talkin about.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

Today, I'm listening to the HD800S out of the Eddie Current Zana Deux Super, and I've never heard bass like out of ZDS OTL! In my experience, Sennys shine out of good tube amps (but there are rare gem solid-states like the Bryston BHA-1 for Sennys), and if anybody wants bass out of the HD800S, EC ZDS is it. It's crazy how an amp can bring out such level of bass qualities out of a headphone. It's the best I've heard of the HD800S.

ZDS is not a usual tube amp. It's fast, sharp, tactile, tight. It's great match for the HD800S. In my experience delta sigma work best with solid-state, but imaging can be a bit flat compared to good multi-bits. My issue with solid-state neutrality is that, it can bring out the treble ugliness of the HD800 or S.

I think a lot of tube amps will not have the same qualities as Eddie Current tube amps. Bass can be looser, less quantity, and in general, not a tight response. Not as dynamic either. Eddie Current amps are tubes amp with technicalities.

I agree with your assessment of the ZDS as a unique OTL amplifier. I have had mine since 2017. I have received many personal messages from people who sold theirs off "for the next best thing" and yet regret selling the ZDS. The ZDS is for the person who aims for a balance between the experience of immersive enchantment and cold technicality. It is not a warm, slow, or lush tube amp. Yet it is not bright and dry either. If anything, I would say (consistent with Eddie current) it swerves toward a more solid state sound while pulling back just at the last moment before descending into sterility. Even then, these descriptions fail to do it justice. It is at once a dreamy amp and and accurate amp. I can't think of it any other way.

I really enjoy the ZDS's synergy with the HD800 (S). If one is striving for absolute transparency, however, I would recommend a SET or transformer coupled tube amp. The ZDS evades many of the limitations of the OTL topology while absolutely maximizing its strengths. But it is still an OTL amp.

The 6C33C-B power tubes are such a brilliant design decision by Craig. The 2016 "Super" upgrade made it even faster, clearer, and more dynamic.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

After trying out another DAC, I just realized it's the Yggdrasil that's really causing such bass out of ZDS. And I thought out of Gumby was pretty significant. Yggy's bass characteristic can differ depending on the amp, but I didn't expect the character out of ZDS to be so tight and slamming with the tracks that really put out fast slamming bass.

With those tracks that has resonance bass effects, it's enhanced out of this setup. If you've heard Fostex bass, you know what I'm talkin about.

Yeah. Yggy has some fat bass.

I had Gungnir Multibit A1 and Yggy A1 with ZDS, and the latter was both brighter and bassier in comparison.

What version of Gumby are you running?

 

[SilverEars]

Yeah. Yggy has some fat bass.

I had Gungnir Multibit A1 and Yggy A1 with ZDS, and the latter was both brighter and bassier in comparison.

What version of Gumby are you running?

Both A2, but bass chacteristics depends on the amp as well. It's noticible ZDS scales up the bass level significantly, and I heard more subs with Yggy. The 800S prickly treble was subdued with ZDS. That's the issue with 800S with neutral solid-state, prickly sharp treble and certain amps, not specifically solid-state, the treble gets uncontrolled sparkly on lower performing amps.

 

[NotaLefty]

I wonder how the 800S pairs with WOO amps.

I have my HD800 S arriving Friday, and I have a Woo WA7 Fireflies with the WA7tp. Impressions to follow!