Benchmark DAC1 as DAC and Amp

[nockti]

Hi everybody, I have been done a bit research at the form, and this is my very first post here.
 
I am considering to get the Benchmark DAC1 pre, but the price of the DAC1 is really a shock for me, especially in germany... Now here is my question: Is it really worth it??
Here is the situation, I hear mostly music from my macbook pro (iTunes 320kbps) and watch movies with headphones. I have senn. HD650 and Denon AHD2000, but I do not own any Headphone amp yet. So my first thought is, with DAC1 I can have both Headphone amp and DAC in one. But will I get a huge improvement with the DAC1 as a normal dac and also as a headphone amp?? (sorry for this stupid question, I haven't had any experience with a DAC)
I also own a stereo, B&W DM303 Speaker , NAD 325bee AMP and a 200 $ denon cd player. If I use the DAC1 as a preamp, is there a noticeable improvement for my stereo system, or does it make any sense to use it as a pre amp? 
I hear actually every kind of music, from classic to Rock. And I am still a student, so.... I really need to know if it is worth it to get a DAC1 for 1,5k€. 
 
 
 I really appreciate for any opinion!!! 

 

[nockti]

But I thought the DAC is the key at the chain, I always heard the DAC inside a laptop is really crappy, and a externe DAC will improve the sound a lot. Or did I miss something?

 

[digger945]

Quote:

But I thought the DAC is the key at the chain, I always heard the DAC inside a laptop is really crappy, and a externe DAC will improve the sound a lot. Or did I miss something?

You are right. The DAC is key. You didn't miss anything. Listen with your own ears and you will hear.

 
Quote:

, you don't have to spend over $200 for a fully transparent source.

Let me guess. Essence Xonar STX?

 

[nockti]

Well, now I am completely confused Should I get benchmark DAC1 as amp and dac oder should i get a cheaper dac and a separately a other amp? I don't have many place on my desk, so my thought was the DAC would be nice if it get 2 function in 1.
How about the pre amp for my stereo, will I get a noticeable improvement?

 

[Prog Rock Man]

There are many combined DAC/amps. Some like Benchmark present themselves as a DAC with an amp. Others such as Firestone present themselves as an amp with a DAC. Then you get some like Musical Fidelity, who with the X-CANV8P have produced a DAC/amp/preamp all in one.
 
You take your choice based on what you need, cost, size, style and sound.

 

[Yikes]

If you want to get into performance and better sound DAC's and Amps matter. That being said I've never been the biggest fan of the Benchmark (and I use to own one). It's a decent, but hyper-analytical DAC with a so-so amp. At US retail I believe it to be a little overpriced, at EU retail, Forgetaboutit.

I would instead consider something from 1.http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/ or YBA makes a nice unit that is something like $800 in the states. I'd even look at the Nuforce HDP which you can find at the Meier site. The Nuforce certainly offers 90-95% of the performance of the Benchmark for less than 1/3 the price

 

[Dalamar]

Reinserting the vital information of my signature since someone ninja'd my posts.
Can't remember what my completely harmless and non-antagonistic posts that hurt Benchmark's business said, but I'm pretty sure I told you that your cdplayer probably has a dac built in and if so it will be better than laptop onboard . Onboard does have a tendency to be inferior, but the difference isn't day and night in most cases.
 
And I still say you shouldn't spend over 10% of your speaker value on a dac. Peamp's useless imo.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Most of what you get from an outboard DAC is isolation from the noisy environment inside your computer. A MacBook isn't very noisy. Most of what you get from a headphone amp is enough current and headroom to drive a difficult load. Your Senns need it, your Dennons don't. The Benchmark is a fine DAC/amp, but you will not hear a dramatic difference between it and the headphone jack of your MacBook with the Dennons. Even the Senns won't be "night and day," though they will have better depth and dynamics with an amp.
 
The truth is, what we're talking about are subtle improvements. The big, transformative, dramatic shifts are mostly imagination fueled by purchase justification. I'd spend less at this juncture. Look at Beresford DAC/amps. Good stuff, a LOT less than the Benchmark. Probably cheaper yet in Europe as they're made in the UK. They will do the job, as will lots of other stuff out there. It still won't be dramatic, but it won't be dramatically expensive either. And then, when you get out of school, you'll have a familiar reference to compare better amps and DACs to when you go shopping for that incremental, but all-important upgrade. 
 
And don't buy anything without a liberal return policy. If you don't think it is earning its keep, send it back.
 
P

 

[Dalamar]

Quote:

Most of what you get from an outboard DAC is isolation from the noisy environment inside your computer.

That pretty much only applies to laptops though, there are plenty of full size internal cards that are designed to perform well in their environment. Just FYI since most of the DAC Religion ignore that..

 

[Bizzel]

As a DAC1 owner I thought I'd throw my own two cents into the discussion. I use it with a Squeezebox as the source and a pair of 650s hooked up directly to the DAC1's headphone amp and it's a solid combination that I'm very happy with.
 
I've no doubt that going from an integrated sound card to the DAC1 will be a significant and very noticeable increase in clarity, having personally made this step up myself. The words "night and day" are banded around here too liberally so I'll refrain from using them, suffice to say that a casual listener will notice the improvement almost immediately.
 
I'll echo what's been said above: you probably don't need a DAC1 but I'd recommend that you get one anyway. Why? Well those integrated headphone amplifiers are actually rather nice. Sure they're not going to usurp the current flagship amplifiers from Headamp, RSA et al but they drive the 650s well and, to my ear, better than my Graham Slee Solo which I later sold. If you're running your headphones from the 3.5mm jack in your Macbook at the moment then the better amplifier performance will be another big improvement.
 
The key thing to remember is that this is a hobby of diminishing returns. Any step up that you make now will be quite significant so the changes will be easier to notice than if you were upgrading from, say, another outboard DAC to the DAC1.

 

[bixby]

 
Quote:

Hi everybody, I have been done a bit research at the form, and this is my very first post here.
 
I am considering to get the Benchmark DAC1 pre, but the price of the DAC1 is really a shock for me, especially in germany... Now here is my question: Is it really worth it??
Here is the situation, I hear mostly music from my macbook pro (iTunes 320kbps) and watch movies with headphones. I have senn. HD650 and Denon AHD2000, but I do not own any Headphone amp yet. So my first thought is, with DAC1 I can have both Headphone amp and DAC in one. But will I get a huge improvement with the DAC1 as a normal dac and also as a headphone amp?? (sorry for this stupid question, I haven't had any experience with a DAC)
I also own a stereo, B&W DM303 Speaker , NAD 325bee AMP and a 200 $ denon cd player. If I use the DAC1 as a preamp, is there a noticeable improvement for my stereo system, or does it make any sense to use it as a pre amp? 
I hear actually every kind of music, from classic to Rock. And I am still a student, so.... I really need to know if it is worth it to get a DAC1 for 1,5k€. 
 
 
 I really appreciate for any opinion!!! 

 
 
Hmmm, as an owner of two DAc1 not the DAC1 PREs, I have to say with your system and for less than half of the cost of the PRE in Europe you could probably pick up a used DAC 1 and be very happy.
 
First the Senn 650s sound very good out of the DAC 1 hp outs.  Trust me I used to won the 650s and heard lots of dedicated hp amps with them and the DAC1 will outperform many of them.  Second the DAC1 sounds very good with the Mac optical out, just be sure to get a very good glass Toslink cable with min on one end and regular on the other.  As for the DAC1 pre as a pre, I have never heard it but it does use a different op amp in the analog circuit.  Some like it other say it is a bit bright.  The DAC1 has a volume control and will act as a pre for your computer when you run it directly into your NAD via the Power amp inputs.  And of course you could connect your CD player to the DAC1 via coax which it probably has.  Or you could just run the DAC1 into the aux input on the NAD.  There should be a subtle benefit going direct from the dac1 to the power amp inputs though.
 
I use another DAC 1 inn my main system with a Macbook running into my amp and while not the best sounding setup int he word, it does sound very good.
 
Bizzel has some great observations as well.  For the quality of the hp amp, the quality of the dac and analog circuits, you have to search around a lot to find something better, but that of course is subjective as all this is.  Try to get a listen, surely with the number of DAC1s sold surely someone near you should have one you can hear.
 

 

[anger3377]

Quote:

But I thought the DAC is the key at the chain, I always heard the DAC inside a laptop is really crappy, and a externe DAC will improve the sound a lot. Or did I miss something?

I have Benchmark DAC1 and would totally agree that DAC is the key. In my opinion, internal DAC is often worse than external DAC. Just for your information.